If the Great War was fought without nuclear weapons?

[Sn1p3r187]

More like primitive in their ways of thinking? Socio and economical and political?

No more like primitive weapons and buildings. Remember, in this scenario oil and coal would run out ENTIRELY, no quick break and a bit left over.

I don't know about primitive weapons. But primitive buildings? I can see that.

Ammunition would run out, so would shells and armour. Tech would be way rarer because it's all being used up.

from what I've concluded from another topic ammunition is actually easier to make then what's been noted. Though experienced people in the chemistry field are needed. But ammunition won't run out. Tech won't exactly run out when the knowledge is passed on digitally and physically so the specs for such tech can be developed and made better. More energy efficient and long lasting.

True, but energy will run out. This isn't a break and left overs, this is finishing the destruciton of earth's natural resources. Forget this and that, it's gone! Junk rounds will be the norm as factories will not run.

Yeah, but then again you forget about the sun as being a major source of energy and the sun will last for another 5 billion years. But what about nanotechnology? It's likely that some form of nanotech was made before the war or after the war (in the no nukes scenario) so likely by 2079 or 2080 there's some of replicateable nanotechnology to create more energy sources by the remnants of what's left and replicating it over and over. Kinda like Oilex from Metal Gear 2 on MSX.

 

[Dr Fallout]

More like primitive in their ways of thinking? Socio and economical and political?

No more like primitive weapons and buildings. Remember, in this scenario oil and coal would run out ENTIRELY, no quick break and a bit left over.

I don't know about primitive weapons. But primitive buildings? I can see that.

Ammunition would run out, so would shells and armour. Tech would be way rarer because it's all being used up.

from what I've concluded from another topic ammunition is actually easier to make then what's been noted. Though experienced people in the chemistry field are needed. But ammunition won't run out. Tech won't exactly run out when the knowledge is passed on digitally and physically so the specs for such tech can be developed and made better. More energy efficient and long lasting.

True, but energy will run out. This isn't a break and left overs, this is finishing the destruciton of earth's natural resources. Forget this and that, it's gone! Junk rounds will be the norm as factories will not run.

Yeah, but then again you forget about the sun as being a major source of energy and the sun will last for another 5 billion years. But what about nanotechnology? It's likely that some form of nanotech was made before the war or after the war (in the no nukes scenario) so likely by 2079 or 2080 there's some of replicateable nanotechnology to create more energy sources by the remnants of what's left and replicating it over and over. Kinda like Oilex from Metal Gear 2 on MSX.

Solar power wasn't used, nor would it be enough to power America. Maybe it could power small cities but anything bigger and it would have been too costly. I doubt it, remember this world is... a strange one where some things are advanced and others fall WAY behind.

 

[shengar]

With all the crazy viruses, bio engineered monsters, power armors and robots, I think the bombs were actually a more mercyful fate for humanity in the world of Fallout.

Yeah, and we still don't know how far the Chinese was with their own biological research.
Biological weapon apocalypse scenario sounds worse than a nuclear one considering that the weapon itself CAN evolve overtime.

 

[Dr Fallout]

With all the crazy viruses, bio engineered monsters, power armors and robots, I think the bombs were actually a more mercyful fate for humanity in the world of Fallout.

Yeah, and we still don't know how far the Chinese was with their own biological research.
Biological weapon apocalypse scenario sounds worse than a nuclear one considering that the weapon itself CAN evolve overtime.

That's true, though there would be far less structural damage.

 

[random234]

Actually the circumstance that the virus is able to evolve would be a saving grace after such a scenario. Since a virus is somewhat of an odd organism which needs to use the cells of living beings to be able to produce offspring, it has a tendency to adapt to their chosen hosts. Adaption here meaning that the virus tends to lessen the impact on the host immune system to allow for production of more offspring and wider dispersal of that offspring.
So if the agent used during a biological apocalypse wouldn't outright kill everyone, which is unlikely because even highly pathogenic strains like certain Ebola variants have a survival probability of at least 10%, i would figure that at least 1% of the population would live even with a highly engineered virus.
Still catastrophic but at least you are left with approx. 350000 people in america alone who would not have to care about their cities being reduced to rubble by atomic hellfire.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

Oh yeah Dr. Fallout. A good example that relates to your theory on independent states and city states would be (shudders) Deus Ex: Invisible War. Considering in their timeline a great collapse in society happened after 2052 and for 20 years the world pretty much went dark. And by 2072 cities like Chicago, Detroit, and Los Angeles are basically walled enclaves with their own laws independent from a dead United States that collapsed into civil war in late 2052 with the downfall of MJ12 and the communications blackout.

 

[RetroAmerica]

As the United States seemed quicker on the uptake than China on converting to microfusion power, the US would be able to eventually achieve some form of victory over China.

 

[Walpknut]

Hard for there to be a victory when both countries where collapsing on themselves due to lack of resources and civil unrest and both governments descent into outright fascism.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Oh yeah Dr. Fallout. A good example that relates to your theory on independent states and city states would be (shudders) Deus Ex: Invisible War. Considering in their timeline a great collapse in society happened after 2052 and for 20 years the world pretty much went dark. And by 2072 cities like Chicago, Detroit, and Los Angeles are basically walled enclaves with their own laws independent from a dead United States that collapsed into civil war in late 2052 with the downfall of MJ12 and the communications blackout.

Hmm? I'm slightly confused at what you mean.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

Hmm? I'm slightly confused at what you mean.

Eh just play Deus Ex and Deus Ex: invisible war. Or for spoilers just read the whole plot of both games on their wiki- http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Deus_Ex_Wiki

The same way most here view fallout 3 and 4 is really the same way most view Invisible War. They hated it.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Okay... so it's a bad game?

 

[NovaRain]

Hard for there to be a victory when both countries where collapsing on themselves due to lack of resources and civil unrest and both governments descent into outright fascism.

I think it would be similar with the outcome of the war between European Commonwealth and Middle East in 2060.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Okay... so it's a bad game?

Assuming you haven't played it, the series is basically the conspiracy simulator the same way Fallout was a post-apocalypse simulator. It's got you fighting directly with the Illuminati, Majestic 12, government conspiracies and Area 51 alien stuff. Basically, anything conspiracy theorists can think of, you can find in the Deus Ex series.

Deus Ex: Invisible War was the Fallout 3 of the Deus Ex series. It has its good parts, and is somewhat a little below average as its own game, but is completely trash as a Deus Ex game by throwing away depth and choices in favour of streamlined console FPS style garbage. But it's still appreciated by many people who don't really understand why it gets so much hate.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution was the New Vegas. It has a touch of modern linearity and streamlined console influences to draw it back from being as much of a gem the original was, and due to AAA graphics, it was incapable of reaching the sheer scale of the original, but it captured the spirit of the gameplay and writing in the original. It was the proper sequel and everyone refuses to acknowledge Invisible War as being part of the series.

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, the upcoming one, is looking basically like what happens if New Vegas 2 was made instead of Fallout 4. With the same Courier and all.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

Assuming you haven't played it, the series is basically the conspiracy simulator the same way Fallout was a post-apocalypse simulator. It's got you fighting directly with the Illuminati, Majestic 12, government conspiracies and Area 51 alien stuff. Basically, anything conspiracy theorists can think of, you can find in the Deus Ex series.

Deus Ex: Invisible War was the Fallout 3 of the Deus Ex series. It has its good parts, and is somewhat a little below average as its own game, but is completely trash as a Deus Ex game by throwing away depth and choices in favour of streamlined console FPS style garbage. But it's still appreciated by many people who don't really understand why it gets so much hate.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution was the New Vegas. It has a touch of modern linearity and streamlined console influences to draw it back from being as much of a gem the original was, and due to AAA graphics, it was incapable of reaching the sheer scale of the original, but it captured the spirit of the gameplay and writing in the original. It was the proper sequel and everyone refuses to acknowledge Invisible War as being part of the series.

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, the upcoming one, is looking basically like what happens if New Vegas 2 was made instead of Fallout 4. With the same Courier and all.

Indeed friend. Invisible War sucked badly. Hopefully Eidos reconciles and gives us a proper sequel to Deus Ex or make a sequel to Invisible War that doesn't suck

 

[Sn1p3r187]

I think it would be similar with the outcome of the war between European Commonwealth and Middle East in 2060.

More than likely but since Nano technology is in full bloom by 2055 it's very likely oil won't really run out when there are nano machines to replicate the cellular structure of petroleum and making a semi infinite source of energy or making nanomachines a source of energy all together.

 

[NovaRain]

More than likely but since Nano technology is in full bloom by 2055 it's very likely oil won't really run out when there are nano machines to replicate the cellular structure of petroleum and making a semi infinite source of energy or making nanomachines a source of energy all together.

I don't remember there's any mention about nano machines in Fallout timeline. Any reference?

 

[peadar87]

More than likely but since Nano technology is in full bloom by 2055 it's very likely oil won't really run out when there are nano machines to replicate the cellular structure of petroleum and making a semi infinite source of energy or making nanomachines a source of energy all together.

I hate nanotech as a plot device! What powers the nanotech that it can break apart molecules and reassemble them? Why not use that to just power whatever you were going to use the oil for?!

 

[Sn1p3r187]

I don't remember there's any mention about nano machines in Fallout timeline. Any reference?

I was referring to the Deus Ex timeline. In their timeline they'd likely not run out of oil because of nanotech

 

[Sn1p3r187]

I hate nanotech as a plot device! What powers the nanotech that it can break apart molecules and reassemble them? Why not use that to just power whatever you were going to use the oil for?!

Yeah it sounds asinine but if we look at our own timeline we're on our technological breakthrough to the use of nano machines. We already have nano medicine available. So it's likely that if nano machines became commercially available in any universe, oil would be damn infinite because all they gotta do is send a nano machine swarm in the oil wells and quickly replicate the cellular structure of oil in every country. So in the case of the conflicts of the 2050's in the Fallout universe. Had there been nano machines to replicate oil I think the Great War could've been totally avoided. But ideology wise I don't would've been avoidable.

 

[DVL]

Nanotechnology is a bit of a catch-all buzz phrase. Fundamentally, you have an energy problem in making oil and the energy has to come from somewhere. Think of the energy pyramid in ecology. Apex predators only claim a small percentage of the total energy available in the biosphere that filters their way up to them. There's a bit lost in each step up the chain. The reason for this is fundamentally a physical one and it applies to everything in chemistry and biology. Energy is lost to entropy. You can hypothetically make a reaction more efficient but you can't make energy from nothing.

More realistically, fusion power was already well around the corner for implementation in Fallout, as was space travel.
They were already power the T-51 suits with microfusion power plants. There is precedent for space travel given with the Hubbologists, the possibility that the Vaults were social experiments for space travel and RobCo rocketry. So Helium-3 mining on the moon for fusion power is the next logical step of development. They more or less seemed to have figured out cold fusion.

"Nanotechnology," as it stands from an energy perspective, is most useful if you can go from there to making compact, safe and quickly charging batteries and more efficient solar panels. IRL, molecular engineering is more likely to produce novel compounds and metamaterials than it is to produce a nanorobot. And the holy grail is to more or less bully the atoms into configurations that we want and knowing what the fuck that even means to us once we get it there. Think "finesse" not energy generation.

The implications of nanotechnology in Deus Ex had nothing to do with energy and focused more on its computational and medical applications. Energy was never discussed since it's not the focus of the series.