Immersive weapon gameplay

xxxRedMetalxxx

xxxRedMetalxxx

Moderator, Game Developer
Modder
Hello modding community, it's Red again.
Just a few quick questions...
How many weapons do you think a post-apocalyptic / sci-fi RPG should contain?
Just how much interest would millions of weapons add to a project?
And what about adding an item rarity system that influences value?
 
I think for the various classes of weapons (pistol, SMG, Rifle, Energy, etc.) there should be about 20 - 25 max available for each class. If there are too many weapons then it can become overwhelming and of course ultimately there just is not that much of difference in the same class anyway.

Rare or unique weapons is something I like and will incorporate in my mod as well, but it has to be used very sparingly, otherwise the game will start to feel like Diablo (i.e. just a loot hunting fest) and the uniqueness and rarity feature will become less and less meaningful.

That's my input at least.
 
phillon said:
I think for the various classes of weapons (pistol, SMG, Rifle, Energy, etc.) there should be about 20 - 25 max available for each class. If there are too many weapons then it can become overwhelming and of course ultimately there just is not that much of difference in the same class anyway.

Rare or unique weapons is something I like and will incorporate in my mod as well, but it has to be used very sparingly, otherwise the game will start to feel like Diablo (i.e. just a loot hunting fest) and the uniqueness and rarity feature will become less and less meaningful.

That's my input at least.
Click to expand...
I am one of those guys that accepts all opinions even those that differ from my own, that way you are able to see a greater picture of ideas rather than just your own. Thus reinforcing your initial theory and by accepting alternate ways of thinking, building on top of your idea to make it far greater. Multiple minds work better than one eh? The reason for this topic is to see different opinions.
In many ways I can agree completely with what you are saying. Weapons in this engine can only differ so much from the next and that concept is a little limited with this platform, to a degree. And the whole idea of adding an item rarity system will bring other games and gaming behavior to mind. Warcraft, Diablo, Borderlands, Defiance, the list is endless. All of these games incorporate an item rarity system in some way and it only forces one thing... Elitism... Players are forced to believe that by collecting unique items they can be the best at the game, usually forcing them to play in tedious and boring ways, like grinding or finding all secret locations blah blah blah... In other words forcing the player to play systematically and 'like everyone else', not choosing thier own path, but the one that is chosen for them to become the best, the elite... Fuck that! My way is different.
In my opinion the rarity system should not be about collecting the best weaponry or armour, but the rarist! I mean duh... it's easy if you think about it. Just picture this... A player rummages around some crates to find a unique (orange) Škorpion vz. 65 SMG... hmmm... nice! The player smugly equips the weapon and struts off thinking that he has found an 'ultimate weapon' of some kind. The player then searches another place to find a common (white) Škorpion vz. 68 SMG that actually has greater stats! The player now is playing differently than elitism, the player is thinking stategy and tactics, looking at stats rather than colour...
Rarity, to be simply put, should only be about rarity. How rare a weapon is to find within your game. this can be done very easily by making a system that you stick with when creating your game flow. For example this is the system I use;

Common = (100 or more total in game)
Uncommon = (40 or less total in game)
Scarce = (20 or less total in game)
Rare = (5 or less total in game)
Unique = (1 in game)

This is also coupled with another system I use that calculates a rating and value of each item. With this concept, elitism can be reversed and a new type of gaming can be created. When players realise that rarer items only cost more because of how many are in the game, and not because of stats. The rare items just become an intersting side to your overall project. It will not over-rule it and decisions made will be from the individual player, not the system.
To be honest, the amount of weaponry and items in my game will be far too vast for most peoples tastes. But i am building it for myself, the way I would enjoy it. Hopefully that will maybe rub off a bit and reinforce other modders projects, as you reinforce my own. Thank you phillon for giving my a sense of your thinking. It helps more than you will ever know.
 
I would like to know what other modders think of the amount of weapons that should be in a game and whether the rarity system can be utilised effectively. Hopefully I can gain more ideas by hearing other modding insights.
 
I like lots of different weapons. I see no reason why a post apoc/sci fi RPG can't have as many weapons as there are in the 'real' world.

As I said earlier, I plan to add a gun store to my mod to house many (if not all) of your creations. Think 'Andy's Guns' from the movie 'Dawn of the Dead 2006'. [But this will come after I released my original content.]
 
Something to coincide with the weapons and ammo would be more 'consumable' entities, ie: food items. I would love to encounter an old bunker loaded with guns ammo and Canned food goods. Sardines, beans, pears, soup, chili, etc. Canned food would give an air of post apoc authenticity.
 
Hello all, it would seem I got back into this game at a good time, so many great ideas and new material to add. Red I have been looking over your recent posts and have to say that your work has been a great inspiration to me in getting started on working with item sprites and it is your standards that I am working toward so keep doing what your doing. At this point I have put several of your sprites into game use which has given me ideas for my own. I like xkcons ideas about food items and have coincidentally been working with the food items out of fo3 and converting them to tactics. Some of my other ideas involve more melee weapons as well which I have been working on and hopefully come up with some decent ones.
 
@ xkcon;

You can proberbly guess the extent of items that I have to create which includes the ones you mentioned. I find it frustrating that I cannot acquire the time to create such vast orders, yet my mind won't ease up on the ideas. It is difficult to explain but the best way you will understand is by imagining a kind of O.C.D. modding. You will never find another game that has this much content, and furthermore you will never find this game, it is just to big to ever complete. Even with a team of professional game designers this game would never reach completion. It would be dissected, shortened, drastically.
To keep a sane mind when modding, I try to switch between projects and give myself a break from repetitive work. You could imagine how long just the weapon project will take? To give you an idea, I have made 89/622 firearms! And that total increases greatly after the project ends!!! I mean... thats ridiculous I know. But thats why it's a problem, like I said, O.C.D. much? For the record I did'nt think I had a disorder like that but now I'm not so sure. LOL.

@ Nightgor;

I am greatful for your interest, and thankful for your kind words. Do not be fooled that items and weapons are the only thing I'm working on, it just takes time. Had a lot of story ideas recently that involve a lot of new items but it is a problem getting to that stage. Try working 50-60 hours a week, having a wife and two kids, and trying to build the biggest game in the world!!! It's not possible.
So I tell myself this;
Don't expect completion. Never work for anyone only yourself. Don't work to others expectations. Never let modding rule your life.
If you can't cut modding out of your life and you enjoy it, then do it but not in a way you don't enjoy. I work in a way that enables complete freedom to create in the little time that I get to actually mod, so that I get maximum enjoyment and a sense of 'reward' at the end of the day.
But anyhoo I'm rambelling again, no one wants to know about the dude that wants a MILLION GIJIZILLION items but can never make them!!! :) My original question about how many weapons and items in a game was intended to gather different players opinions and base that on the demo I plan to release... eventually... maybe when I'm 90 and no one even knows what I P.C was... LOL!
 
I certainly know about long work days and balancing family life as well, been doing it for years as well as working on a multitude of game ideas that never seem to get finished :roll: I don't think the number of weapons you add matters, you definitely have ideas to maintain some kind of balance and to keep things progressive despite the large influx of weaponry-plus you hint at a very large game environment so would that not also balance things out somewhat as well? I will look forward to seeing more of your work as you continue with the insanity of your plan.
 
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