Interplay financials: Fallout Online in doubt

[Brother None]

Re: More info

Interplay listed deals with I2G (for 15 million), Masthead (for 20 million), and deals that were nearly completed but shut down in mid negotiations, with BVD, and others, due to the lawsuit being filed by Bethesda.

Riiiight. And it never occurred to you that, for instance, Interplay could sell off a publishing deal with Masthead in which Masthead gets back a substantial part of FOOL's revenue as equating multiple millions? It's the oldest trick in the book, and it has absolutely nothing to do with having any money at all. So, they tell the judge the deal they have with Masthead is worth 20 million. That's nice. Exactly how much money does it actually give them.

Not sure what you're talking about with the I2G thing. I thought that was for one million?

That's my reading of the contract anyways. Interplay argued that it is standard practice in game development to allocate as the project goes forward not all up front at once.

A most sensible argument when you have the backing of a publisher with enough cashflow to allocate money freely. Which Interplay doesn't.

A judge will not allow a case to get past the injunction phase if the other side has nothing to show.

Cases always move past injunction phases. Injunctions are just temporary rulings while the case is resolved. You really don't understand what an injunction is, do you?

As for a minimum of 30 million being too small to make a dent in today's market for an MMO, the current head of Bethesda's MMO division, Matt Firor, made a very successful MMO for somewhere between 10 and 20 million, from what I heard.

What, Dark Age of Camelot? Not very successful, and also we're talking about a game developed over a decade ago. Not exactly comparable.

Bethesda has been working on an MMO for almost as long as Interplay, but Bethesda won't even release the name of the game that they are working on.

Bethesda never announces what they're working on until they are at the PR cycle stage. They would be fools to announce an MMO while also building up to the Skyrim hype. Perhaps it'll follow Skyrim's release.

Maybe because Bethesda has been plotting and playing dirty all along and was working on their own version of Fallout from very early on in this.

Yeah, you've posited this theory multiple times, and I'm pretty sure every time I've told you "everyone assumes they are working on TES Online, not Fallout Online".

Even if this is not the case, it seems preposterous to me that some suits at Bethesda aren't at least a little worried by this.

Eh. I bet they got some temp to sit around worrying about it.

ZeniMax' smallest subdivision is bigger than Interplay. Fer Frith's sake.

I'd think that their suits who see the cash flowing in regularly from Fallout would not want to risk that 1 percent chance of letting this all be decided by a jury.

Wasn't it Bethesda who requested a trail by jury? Another frivolous request amongst many of theirs, admittedly.

it showed me how fallible people on the outside looking in can sometimes be...

Wow. That's so true. Now imagine having money invested in a company. Imagine regularly going "go team!" for a company. Now how impartial do you think the person doing that would be in analyzing the company's situation? Is that person, who has no more inside knowledge than anyone else, really someone who anyone should take seriously?

 

[Dionysus]

Re: More info

I'm pretty sure that the injunction was doomed based on the fact that Bethesda isn't harmed by IP and Masthead pissing money away on development. If the release was imminent, they'd have more of a case for an injunction. But even then, the judge would need to consider the potential harm to both parties.

And I don't remember IP ever claiming to have 30 million.

 

[Crni Vuk]

well Iplay never claimed to have the 30millions there on the table. If that is what you mean. But Herve learned the business from the ...


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AERf3U2s0kg[/youtube]

 

[Elven6]

Yes. And most of us realize it doesn't look remotely likely that they amassed the funding, or they would've revealed as much long since. You simply seem inclined to take them at their word for it. Again, most of us simply know them better than that.

No, I'm assuming they must have some sort of a funding system set up, probably not $30 million up front but perhaps a contract for that much stretched out over a period of time (ie, you receive X million every X months or something). I assume they must be under the impression that they have the funding secured given how they are pursuing the lawsuit and have the backing of a pretty respected law firm (Gersh), etc.

Why are you saying they never disclosed it? All the investment deals were posted about on their front page,

http://interplay.com/about/news.php

I think there was only one that wasn't posted but that one is available on their SEC page. I can ask you how you're so confident that these investment deals don't add up to at least $30 million in value (I'm just assuming they are because of their legal defense, you're confident in your claims that they don't have it).

I also don't see how you can say I'm stating the $30 million is a fact, in all of my posts I've used words like "Interplay claims", "I assume", "they believe, etc. Never once have I stated it's fact, I merely stated one can assume they have it given X conditions.

25 million USD gets you an AAA single-player game. MMOs are different, especially since they require very constant funding after launch. WoW cost Blizzard 200 million in its first four years, and cost 40 million to develop way back in 2004. The Old Republic has cost EA 80 million even prior to PR launching. The relatively low-key Rift MMO cost 50 million. Warhammer Online's budget was put by the rumor mill at anywhere between 100 and 200 million dollars.

Quite a bit of that budget goes into setting up the technology to run the MMO, in the case of the Fallout MMO most of that is already taken care of. This would be Masthead's second MMO so they have the experience and tech behind them from their previous release, not all of the studios you mentioned had this luxury the first time around.

A good chunk of The Old Republic's budget is going into marketing, the company they use to create the CGI trailers, cutscenes, etc charges something like $1 million per minute. You also have to factor in the IP and engine fees (they purchased one). That's not to say the budget is small by any means, it's likely still around the $70-80 million mark. And lets get realistic here, an IP like Star Wars can warrant that type of a budget since Star Wars fans will jump on it regardless (look at Galaxies). Fallout despite the success of 3 and New Vegas isn't as big as Star Wars.

A 30 million budget doesn't really get you anywhere, especially since you'll need to allocate a big chunk of that to running costs and PR. ZeniMax drew a 300 million dollar investment for purchasing studios and funding their own MMO, and that's more in a realistic ballpark.

I'm sure a majority of that cash went into purchasing studios and not the development of a MMO. In the end every studio is different, some have turned out quality games with a small budget while others have blown through a huge budget and released a mediocre game. It's all down to how the money is managed and where it's going.

Now don't get me wrong, you can easily finish an MMO for 30 million dollars, especially if it's just recycling a lot of Earthrise stuff. It'll just suck horribly. That's Bethesda's nightmare scenario.

Why do you think it will be recycling Earthrise content? What do you think that $30 million will go to if not the MMO? There are only so many different ways you can differentiate an MMO mechanically but I think in terms of assets, content, etc there likely won't be an issue.

Edit:

well Iplay never claimed to have the 30millions there on the table. If that is what you mean. But Herve learned the business from the ...

Never claimed to the public or claimed in court?

 

[troybilt]

Elven6

Well, I'd have to say that Elven's arguments seem much more sensible to me than Brother None's. Brother None comes across as very biased against Interplay, myself a little biased for Interplay (I'm admittedly holding a fair amount of Interplay stock), and Elven6 being much more measured, unbiased, more in the middle.

BTW Brother None: Do some fact checks. The I2G deal clearly stated 15 million in court and multiple SEC filings. Bethesda has tried to take the tack of saying that the I2G deal should not be counted because Herve supposedly has a personal rather than business relationship with the I2G CEO. Herve and his legal team flatly denied that. Again, seems pretty tenuous to me for Bethesda to argue Herve is secretly buddies with the I2G CEO and thus the whole thing is made up. (even if it is, again how does Bethesda prove this--put a private eye to follow Herve around and somehow show that any meeting with the I2G CEO was actually purely friendly and not professional. Good luck proving that one Bethesda, oops Herve smiled at the CEO--was that move professional or business...) Hope you didn't pin all your hopes of shooting down the I2G deal on that line of defense Bethesda.

Also, Interplay claimed in court as did Masthead that their deal is worth 20 million. Seems to me it would be hard for Bethesda to prove that that deal was bogus, even if it is. Is the judge going to force Masthead, a company in Bulgaria to march down to her chambers and pull out a 20 million dollar suitcase. I don't think so. Masthead can claim anything they want and I can't see a way that Bethesda can poke holes in it (Brother None illuminate me on this point, how does Bethesda "prove" that Masthead, a privately funded company does not have access to enough money to make the game when they clearly state in legal documents that they do.) A

Lastly, Interplay had a multimillion dollar deal with BVD which is still on the table provided that the lawsuit gets settled. (we don't know the exact figures of the BVD deal, other than that it is in the millions. There are court documents showing that it exists and statements from BVD that the deal was only not consummated due to Bethesda filing suit).

 

[Crni Vuk]

well Iplay never claimed to have the 30millions there on the table. If that is what you mean. But Herve learned the business from the ...

Never claimed to the public or claimed in court?

Well That is from how I understood it. So I might be wrong. I hope people will forgive me if the situation is not like that.

But from how I got it Iplay claimed to have a "deal" worth of 30 Million. Though that is not the same like to really have 30 millons which you can use how you see fit.

 

[The Hanged Man]

Even if Iplay gets FOOL finished, it has to compete with WOW and the upcoming KOTOR:The Old Republic, something I doubt Fallout can accomplish even now that the masses know of it.

Isn't that sometimes a good thing that few people play it? I mean 6 people online is bad, but it's better than having 2 million trigger happy mic spamming twelve year olds who's idea of criticism is "It's not Call of Duty"
I mean I would rather play with the respectful members of sites like this personally and friends even if that means there are few people.

 

[Elven6]

well Iplay never claimed to have the 30millions there on the table. If that is what you mean. But Herve learned the business from the ...

Never claimed to the public or claimed in court?

Well That is from how I understood it. So I might be wrong. I hope people will forgive me if the situation is not like that.

But from how I got it Iplay claimed to have a "deal" worth of 30 Million. Though that is not the same like to really have 30 millons which you can use how you see fit.

No worries and sorry if my message had a attackish tone to it, that wasn't my intent.

That being said, you do bring up a valid point and it could be referencing a milestone system or maybe even a full $30 million deal where all the money is received at once.

 

[Lichbane]

Interplay not finishing the Fallout MMO? Well color me surprised!

(I'd go back and find my predictions, but to be honest, I cant be asked).

 

[Crni Vuk]

That being said, you do bring up a valid point and it could be referencing a milestone system or maybe even a full $30 million deal where all the money is received at once.

Exactly the point. Thing is that even for someone used with the language to understand all that "gibberish" in courts is hard enough leave alone someone who is not a native speaker like me

But all I got so far was that Bethesda claimed something like "Iplay haz no not 30 millions yet!" while Herves minions simply shouted "WE HAZ THE 30 MILLIONS IN CONTRAXTS AND ARE NOT AFRAID OF ANYTHING !!121"....

 

[orionquest]

True but there's a better chance of the MMO not being complete as a result of the lawsuit than anything else since they seem pretty confident that funding is secure be it all at once, milestones, etc.

I'm not sure what you're basing this "better chance" on. We're talking about a company deep in debt, including tax debt, and leaking money year in year out. I wouldn't bet on them finishing FOOL regardless of lawsuits.

Unless we get a cheap Earthrise clone. But who wants that?

Brothernone,

From the perspective of an individual having 3 mil in debt, yes I would say they are deep in debt but you are forgetting that Interplay is a publicly listed company and on Wall Street 3 million in debt is a rounding error.

You currently reside in Europe and are therefor under a shell game monetary system made up of hundreds if not thousands of banks that are in debt to the tune of hundreds of billions if not trillions to rich countries that own the debt of the bankrupt countries as wealth assets.

That, my friend, is deep in debt. Same on the State Side. The total liabilities of all publicly listed companies are at least 3 times their net cash holdings implying a serious flaw with Capitalism( cough cough)

In this context, Interplay( having dropped their liabilities down from over 120 million down to 3 million) is in fact in great shape going forward.

And FYI, there is a million dollar investment with a bonus warrant ex option by Dot Corp Investments that has quiet an amount of deferred revenue that is not counted as cash on hand.

What everybody seems to fail to realize is that a Company that is currently valued at 9 million dollars( 6 million counting debt ) has the chance to win a lawsuit that will win it a minimum of 15 million in damages for just Fallout 3( not counting DLC's and Fallout 4 Etc)

They also have a chance to release an MMO that can conservatively generate about 100 million in revenue in one year if it gains an average of 500k monthly subscribers @ $15 per month and 500k game units sold @ $50.

500k users is a drop in the bucket compared to 15+ million for WOW and hence it is reasonable to expect about a conservative 20% of Fallout 1-4 Players to sign up for the MMO.

This is why Masthead is willing to put up $20 million in their technology and about 80 staff members at the disposal of Interplay's Design Leads.

The same of I2G's proposed 15 million investment in Interplay.

The thin air issuance of shares to these companies as payback for their efforts could be worth about 50 million $ plus( even if it dilutes shareholders by 25%) if Interplay can win the lawsuit or at least gain a settlement in their favor.

Provided a public company is not up to their eyeballs in debt ( that would be in the hundreds of millions to up to a trillion $)
On Wall Street a conservative market cap is to slap a price multiple of 3X sales.

If, and it's an important if, Interplay is able to win/settle and monetize 500k subscribers, they can generate 100 million in initial revenue( -12 mil to Bethesda and more to other developers) leaving them at about 50-70 Million in revenue and a 3X multiple of that is 150-210 Million.

With 120 million shares that is a price north of $1 per share and just south of $2 per share( generating a 1500 to almost 3000% percent return on investment)

And that, gentlemen, is why Reputable Multi million dollar investment firms and development houses would risk 1-20 Million dollars in investment in such a small company.

Interplay could structure an agreement as to issue additional shares when their stock hits $1 so that they can literally pay out about 30 million dollars back to both Masthead and I2G and still leave more payments to come in terms of profit sharing and such.

This is what is possible on Wall Street with public companies and it is something that many persons, especially an informed person such as Brothernone, keep forgetting.

I don't mind that you talk the talk Brothernone. But if you do, you better back it up with a walk and that means cold hard numbers instead of simple conjecture.

It's only fair after all since you are in the news reporting business.

FYI, for those that think the above scenario is fantasy: obviously you're not familiar with what goes on daily on Wall Street.

This is how Angel Investors( aka early investors) end up buying those luxury toys that you admire tearing up asphalt on the streets around you.

Edit:

Everybody seems to be forgetting that the full contract between Interplay and Masthead has not been published.

Right now, what this means is all talk about 20 million Masthead investment from anyone that is not privy to that contract is to be considered speculation and( That means myself, Brothernone, Elven6, Troybilt and the peanut gallery)

We simply do not know how the contract with Masthead is structured to explain a 20 million dollar investment.

Mind you, Masthead does not have to actually have 20 million in cash on hand. They simply have to do 20 million dollars of work and bill it to Interplay( whether in installments, stock options or deferred payments)

Speculating on what type of payment is detailed in the Masthead contract is healthy. One can make up a for or against case easily.

My case for is as such:

Masthead chooses to license their engine for a certain fee ala Id and the Quake engine licenses. This is worth a few million dollars at the very least.

Masthead could then bill a whole contract or on a total billable hours worked by X amount of employees( like lawyers do)

In theory, Masthead does not have to put in 20 million $ in cash in Interplay's hands but simply provide 20 million in services to Interplay over the life cycle development of the game until or even after launch.

Masthead could also deffer paying parts of their own employees salaries in exchange for stock options/revenue sharing and profit sharing.

There are many exotic legal ways to structure financing of a game.

Bethesda thinks Interplay needed to have 30 Million cash on hand on April 4 2009

Interplay successfully argued that they did not( hence a failed preliminary injunction by Bethesda)

Now, Interplay was asked by the Judge to provide proof that 30 million is available( this assumes that the Jufge means that 30 million over the life of the project which is still not complete)

Interplay turned in several documents stating this as fact( Interplay's interpertation)

The funny thing is Bethesda's lawyers actually agreed with this statement by Interplay in a round about way.

How?

Well, Bethesda lawyers stated in a recent publicly available filing to the Judge that they recognize Interplay has turned in documents showing that not only was there concrete work being done on the game but that they have documents that show 30 Million in funding!

Monumental error on Betheda Lawyer's part?

Yes.

So, how did Bethesda try to get out of admitting this in a court document?

They requested that the Judge throws out all evidence that Interplay has provided showing that they are working on the game( 13k pages of screenshots, design documents, wikis, working game mechanics engine, etc) + legally binding funding/development contracts with Masthead/I2G/ Dotcorp etc....)

and instead admit only evidence that shows Interplay's deficiency in funding the game and proof of design.

For those too thick headed to understand: Bethesda admits in a legal document that Interplay showed proof that there are indeed documents that detail 30 million in funding and proof of development but they wanted the Judge to throw it out on a technicality!

That technicality being Interplay's abuse of the discovery process and hence of Bethesda.

The judge laughed them out of court and instead fined Interplay $2,000



This is the best that Bethesda's 3rd lawfirm to date has to offer( first lawfirm tossed out on their asses for utter incompetence, 2nd lawfirm and all lawyers except the lead lawyer replaced when the lead lawyer switched firms.

You think that a lead lawyer working on remodeling homes for sale only a few short years ago has the time or inclination to do all the leg work and prosecution on his own?

Nope. Thought so too.

Ask yourself this:

Why would Bethesda's lawyers do this, with all their legal might and mountains of Zenimax cash reserves at their disposal, unless that is their hail marry pass before they throw in the towel?

Why not strike Interplay hard right now?

why protract this case if they have damning evidence against Interplay or if they can prove that Interplay has no case to stand on?

Let the speculation begin as to why this is the case.

 

[Brother None]

Why are you saying they never disclosed it? All the investment deals were posted about on their front page,

Exactly. The investments they posted on publicly do not add up to nearly 30 million.

I can ask you how you're so confident that these investment deals don't add up to at least $30 million in value.

I can count? The only investment posted on on their frontpage is DotCorp putting up a million. MicroProse was satisfied in IPs to the value of 124K.

Never once have I stated it's fact, I merely stated one can assume they have it given X conditions.

When I asked for facts or evidence, you replied with said suppositions.

Quite a bit of that budget goes into setting up the technology to run the MMO, in the case of the Fallout MMO most of that is already taken care of.

Not really. They have an engine. Developing an engine is costly but not the biggest chunk of the budget, especially for MMOs. You can license an MMO engine easily for less than a million (if that). As I said many times, they can recycle a lot of assets as well, but will they? Animations, art assets, world building, etc etc. It costs a lot. Then there's infrastructure, running cost and PR.

A good chunk of The Old Republic's budget is going into marketing

The marketing for the Old Republic hasn't really started yet. Yeah, there's one CGI trailer that was expensive (though "cutscenes"? Cutscenes aren't marketing), and they're active online, but the really expensive press junkets and ad campaigns still have to start. The 80 million budget does not yet include that, it's what they spent so far, before the ad storm.

I'm sure a majority of that cash went into purchasing studios and not the development of a MMO.

Sure. Just sayin'. ZeniMax would be an example of a publisher who can afford to put out an MMO. Interplay is not.

Why do you think it will be recycling Earthrise content?

Because I don't think they have the money to do otherwise?

What do you think that $30 million will go to if not the MMO?

What $30 million?

Well, I'd have to say that Elven's arguments seem much more sensible to me than Brother None's. Brother None comes across as very biased against Interplay, myself a little biased for Interplay (I'm admittedly holding a fair amount of Interplay stock), and Elven6 being much more measured, unbiased, more in the middle.

Oh wow, the guy you don't agree with sounds biased to you. Truly you are the epitome of reason.

If I have any reason to be biased, it's in favor of Interplay. They at least hire Fallout talent, I'd be curious to see what they'd do with Fallout Online (though I'm not an MMO player), and while Interplay's last Fallout productions were dookie and I think the IP's original concepts are well and truly dead by now, Interplay at least might make RPGs with original developers on it that are closer to the core concepts than what Bethesda produces.

Thing is, I know my hopes and wishes don't make things so. I'm just being a realist about it.

Elven just comes across as yet another stockholder, though I don't really know. I hope for you guys, if you want to become successful players, that you realize that you have to be rational about your stock, not heavily in denial and patting each other one the back, like you do now.

The I2G deal clearly stated 15 million in court and multiple SEC filings.

Is it? Please offer quotes and/or a link. Like I said, I have seen/recall the Microprose (which is part of I2G) deal valued at about 124K, and I recall some stock deals for half a million or roundabout there stock at .13 per. No deals that come anywhere near 15 million.

Quick googling shows the only public claims about this are on this forum and DaC citing a source (read: frymuchan). I will remind you stockholders that spreading such information as fact without any evidence is willful dissemination of false information. So please, offer solid evidence. Not just claims. You say it's in a SEC filing, then provide a link.

Bethesda has tried to take the tack of saying that the I2G deal should not be counted because Herve supposedly has a personal rather than business relationship with the I2G CEO.

I don't give a shit what Bethesda claims. They have made enough specious and ludicrous claims in court to write a paper about, as NMA has pointed out more than once.

Seems to me it would be hard for Bethesda to prove that that deal was bogus, even if it is.

I always wonder how you Interplay investors can be so upbeat, but the explanation really is that you have the memory of a goldfish...

We're not talking about what Interplay or Bethesda can prove in court, we're talking about real, actual money vs a "deal" being "valued at" 30 million, which is very obviously the case for Masthead and Interplay. Masthead isn't putting up 20 million in cash in stages or otherwise, they're just valuing their work at that because it's convenient for Interplay. Do you think it actually represents 20 million USD? Hah! Funny.

Brothernone,

orionquest,

on Wall Street 3 million in debt is a rounding error.

But they're not on Wall Street. Because shell companies don't go on Wall Street. Interplay doesn't have the revenue of a mom 'n pop grocery store, and no net income. Your comparison is ludicrous.

In this context, Interplay( having dropped their liabilities down from over 120 million down to 3 million) is in fact in great shape going forward.

In better shape, yes. And their tactic of feeding on their back catalog and ports of said old titles, or even releasing small titles like Death and the Fly, that all works. Interplay can exist as a small niche company like that. FOOL is just folly though.

there is a million dollar investment with a bonus warrant ex option by Dot Corp Investments that has quiet an amount of deferred revenue that is not counted as cash on hand.

I know. It's come up multiple times. It seems to be the only investment of any size that you guys can offer any evidence for.

They also have a chance

Chances are great for you guys clinging to your pipedreams of becoming millionaires on penny stock. The rest of us, who have no vested interest and have followed Interplay long enough to be skeptical, we'd prefer solid facts rather than chances.

revenue in one year if it gains an average of 500k monthly subscribers

500K? You really need to investigate the industry you're investing in better. 500K is an exceptional number. The classics like WoW, Lineage and Aion beat it, but amongst full-AAA MMOs, only titles like Age of Conan, Warhammer Online and FFXI hit such numbers, and AoC and WAR only held that for a couple of months right after release. Star Trek Online never reached it.

hence it is reasonable to expect about a conservative 20% of Fallout 1-4 Players to sign up for the MMO.

Super reasonable. Unless someone were to inform you that MMOs are PC genres and Bethesda's Fallout does not do particularly well on PC. Bethesda doesn't make its numbers public but I'd be surprised if as much as 10% of Fallout 3/New Vegas' sales are on PC.

I don't mind that you talk the talk Brothernone. But if you do, you better back it up with a walk and that means cold hard numbers instead of simple conjecture.

Me? I have only numbers. Numbers like "MMORPGs with a much larger investment and a bigger IP (Warhammer) than Fallout failed to hold 500K users" or "there is no (public) record of investments in Interplay coming anywhere near 30 million".

It's only fair after all since you are in the news reporting business.

You guys are still upset about the fact that I refuse to give a positive spin to every bit of Interplay news, and instead report neutrally and then discuss it on the forums as I see it? Sorry dudes, you can prefer to give court documents to other sites/people more willing to lap up your statements without fact checking, but I actually know how journalism works, and I'm not bending to stock holders of all people.

This is how Angel Investors( aka early investors) end up buying those luxury toys that you admire tearing up asphalt on the streets around you.

Man they sure do! Feel free to come back and brag when you've actually done so, because right now you guys are just a bunch of people sitting on penny stock that hasn't increased in value in years. Until you are an actually successful investor, leave the bragging to other people.

Masthead chooses to license their engine for a certain fee ala Id and the Quake engine licenses. This is worth a few million dollars at the very least.

Engine licenses aren't worth millions of dollars. And don't compare it to id-Tech, those are exceptional high-tier licenses. Unreal is expensive in the 500K-1M range. A common MMO license like BigWorld can be had for less than half a million.

Masthead could then bill a whole contract or on a total billable hours worked by X amount of employees( like lawyers do)

Only they work out of Bulgaria, which as an American you probably don't know, but they're not very rich. The PPP in Bulgaria is $13,500. Let's be liberal and say video game developers make twice that. At 27000 USD per year, with 80 employees working on it for 3 years, we end up with an actual bill of 6.5 million.

See, here's the thing. No one has yet doubted that Interplay got through the preliminary hearing by pretending the Masthead deal was worth 20 million. That's an easy claim to make. It's just highly unlikely it is actually worth 20 million, my quick calculation doesn't even put it above 10 million (factoring in office space and other tech). Where that money is to actually come from though? I dunno.

That's good for Interplay because it means the production of the MMO is cheaper. It just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Whether or not that matters in court I'll leave to the experts, i.e. not you guys.

However, it's not the topic of discussion. I was asking frymuchan here why he believes Interplay actually has 30 million, and these court claims were all he had. Now you yourself are explaining why the court claims are all legal finagling and don't represent actual budget. So tell me, who is actually paying for the MMO to be made? Where is the money coming from? And are you ready to admit we're not talking about an MMO with an actual budget of 30 million?

This is the best that Bethesda's 3rd lawfirm to date has to offer( first lawfirm tossed out on their asses for utter incompetence, 2nd lawfirm and all lawyers except the lead lawyer replaced when the lead lawyer switched firms.

Yeah, Bethesda's lawyers have been terrible and owned by Interplay's lawyers left and right. We've been over this a million times. That doesn't make money magically appear for Interplay.

 

[Elven6]

Exactly. The investments they posted on publicly do not add up to nearly 30 million.

How do you quote what you don't know? Deals such as the Masthead one specifically say "Terms of the deal were not disclosed.". Some deals weren't even posted in the news section but via SEC reports, even then, the entire terms weren't disclosed as alluded to above by Troybuilt and Orionquest.

I can count? The only investment posted on on their frontpage is DotCorp putting up a million. MicroProse was satisfied in IPs to the value of 124K..

See above

When I asked for facts or evidence, you replied with said suppositions.

And? The terms I used clearly differentiated between any "facts" I might be stating and those stated by others.

Not really. They have an engine. Developing an engine is costly but not the biggest chunk of the budget, especially for MMOs. You can license an MMO engine easily for less than a million (if that). As I said many times, they can recycle a lot of assets as well, but will they? Animations, art assets, world building, etc etc. It costs a lot. Then there's infrastructure, running cost and PR.

Good point regarding the engine fee but the company that licenses the engine (Hero I believe) also does hosting so it depends on what they purchased. Infastructure is of course a key issue but assuming Masthead is willing to share their research Interplay certainly has better footing in this regard.

In terms of PR, it's essentially an advertising cost. If you're saying the Fallout MMO can't share resources with Earthrise (since realistically most companies have internal art databases to share resources across projects), what's to say The Old Republic, or any other MMO can't/isn't/hasn't done the same thing? Why bother motion capturing a walking animation when you already have the data from a few years back?

That being said, if there are shared resources (if any) I don't think it will be something as big as a building or distinct character model.

The marketing for the Old Republic hasn't really started yet. Yeah, there's one CGI trailer that was expensive (though "cutscenes"? Cutscenes aren't marketing), and they're active online, but the really expensive press junkets and ad campaigns still have to start. The 80 million budget does not yet include that, it's what they spent so far, before the ad storm.

I think you're under estimating how much they are spending. They've had quite a few events for both public and press since the game was first announced, factor in the trailers and I think the costs thus far for marketing could exceed $10 million.

In regards to the trailers, they've actually had a few CGI ones,

http://www.ign.com/videos/games/bioware-mmo-project-pc-816935

I'm pretty sure all of them have been done by Blur.

Are you? Feel free to prove it. They had to set up ZeniMax Online from the ground up, finding and funding a location and then going on a hiring binge.

Buying a studio in most locations is pretty expensive these days which is why very few companies still buy studios (no one wanted to buy a studio as prestigious as Bizarre Creations due to costs to put it into perspective). It's cheaper to just open up a new studio next door and start hiring the talent (look at what's happening in Montreal now). It varies from location to location of course.

I highly doubt companies like id, Arkane, etc were cheap buys either, id especially. Both of these studios are located in Texas which has a pretty strong development community so that might factor into costs as well.

No studio has ever made a really successful MMO on a shoestring budget.

A minimum of $30 million (since there could be more) is not a shoe string budget. Define "really successful", a MMO doesn't need WoW numbers to be a success nor does it need 1 million subscribers to be successful for the studio either. There are quite a few MMO's, especially those around since the 90s with a few thousand players but still successful enough for the company maintaining them to continue development, fund new projects, etc.

But to answer your question, Allods Online had a budget of $12 million, also see:

http://www.mmogamer.com/04/06/2009/making-mmos-on-a-shoestring

Edit: Can forget those various web based MMO's either.

Because I don't think they have the money to do otherwise?

See above. Also, I doubt they are paying for each individual model, animation, etc. A salary is likely being paid to the employees thus no need for a freelance type payment system.

What $30 million?

The $30 million needed to develop the MMO of course.


Btw, Warhammer's budget has to be less than $100 million if TOR has a budget of $100 million, at least according to EA.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Republic_Is_EAs_Biggest_Spend_In_History.php

On the subject of Bulgaria, Sofia (where Masthead is located) is a pretty big city, pretty much all major software/IT companies have outsourced to that city and it's the financial hub of the country. On the games side of things companies like CryTek, Ubisoft, etc have studios there. I think the budget you have listed is perhaps a bit too low and not accounting for various factors (job position, years of experience, etc).

 

[Brother None]

How do you quote what you don't know?

Why are you saying they never disclosed it? All the investment deals were posted about on their front page,

Seriously. Attention span of a gold fish. I've been quoting what I know. I'm not interested in fantasy numbers you guys speculate on.

And? The terms I used clearly differentiated between any "facts" I might be stating and those stated by others.

Sure do. You were still trying to offer them up when I asked for facts.

In terms of PR, it's essentially an advertising cost. If you're saying the Fallout MMO can't share resources with Earthrise (since realistically most companies have internal art databases to share resources across projects), what's to say The Old Republic, or any other MMO can't/isn't/hasn't done the same thing? Why bother motion capturing a walking animation when you already have the data from a few years back?

Again, seriously. You guys need to research the industry you invest in. Don't get me wrong, game companies do recycle across projects, but it's not very common, especially not for big companies. Mostly because people notice, as with the heavy recycling from DA:Origins to DAII. And that was an exceptionally rushed project.

The game industry is notoriously wasteful with its resources.

Anyway, you are once again not carefully reading what I'm saying. I'm not talking about minor recycling, I'm talking about a title that at its core plays and looks the same, which without a proper budget is the only option.

I think you're under estimating how much they are spending.

I'm not. You're under estimating when the real PR starts. It hasn't yet. 80 million is what they spent so far, before the real storm starts. They will spend much, much more on marketing yet. That was my point.

I highly doubt companies like id, Arkane, etc were cheap buys either, id especially. Both of these studios are located in Texas which has a pretty strong development community so that might factor into costs as well.

I changed what you quoted before you replied, but for clarity: the 300 million investment went all over the place, it's not the only source of money for ZeniMax. They could buy studios based purely on the profits from Bethesda's tentpole franchises. The point is this: they have the money, Interplay does not.

A minimum of $30 million (since there could be more) is not a shoe string budget.

The bit you quoted was also no longer in my post. For that reason. It was misstated.

The $30 million needed to develop the MMO of course.

Yes? And where is that $30 million coming from? Masthead isn't putting up any money. I've seen no evidence of an I2G deal. So?

Btw, Warhammer's budget has to be less than $100 million if TOR has a budget of $100 million, at least according to EA.

I don't know TOR's budget. It's at 80 million now. I wouldn't be surprised if it is above 100 million prior to release.

I think the budget you have listed is perhaps a bit too low and not accounting for various factors (job position, years of experience, etc).

I doubled the average PPP. You can triple it and still not come near 20 million. I don't think you understand why people outsource, which is exactly because workers are so cheap.

The game industry is not a high-wage industry. If you really want to claim Bulgarian software developers make more than twice what the average Bulgarian does, please offer proof.

For comparison sake, veteran (6 years) game programmers make about 90K, designers about 70K. This is less than half the per capita PPP of the US. Why would this be different in Bulgaria?

 

[troybilt]

Fact checks

Brother None,

You've got to dig a little deeper, do some research, be a journalist.

The I2G deal was publically disclosed in SEC filings for 15 million dollars awhile back, a year or two ago. It was also referenced in the court documents on the PACER website as part of how Interplay is coming up with the 30 million figure. Bethesda's only legal defense, again look at the PACER documents, is that somehow this 15 million shouldn't count because Bethesda alleges that Interplay's CEO is personal buds with the I2G CEO, former Atari CEO.

Masthead has stated that they are putting up 20 million of their own resources. Masthead has stated that they are privately funded by US investors and that they will put a minimum of 20 million toward the deal. Sure, Bethesda can attack this but if a company says you get 20 million from our investors throughout the life of the project, there is no way to refute that other than winning on the argument of saying that the contract specifies you need to show the cash up front and that it is not the same to allocate monies over time. I doubt that Bethesda will win on that one but one never knows.

The BVT deal is listed in the court documents. Interplay showed proof that the deal with BVT is valued in the millions of dollars. You can look BVT up on the web. they are a large investment company with over 5 billion invested.

As for being a successful investor, I've got over a million shares of IPLY stock that was financed strictly through day trading, i. e. none of my money from my professional work. I've invested in Priceline when the stock was around 4 dollars (now 500 and some dollars) still own it, as well as numerous other high risk stocks that have done very well for me (netzero when they were nearly out of business and they went up over 40 times over what I put in within two years, etc). I have lost on a few of my high risk stock picks, but most of my picks have hit which has more than made up for any of the mishits I've made (again, I've never lost a dime on any of my wages or savings, only money that I made from day trading. so in essence, I've been playing with the dealer's money on all of my stocks, Interplay included.) If Interplay goes under, oh well, I can write off that loss. I still hold plenty of other valuable stocks. Not sure what you count as a successfull investor, but I consider myself so. Made lots of money and still hold millions of shares of various stocks, many of which are now quite valuable. In my book, that's a successful investor, high risk -- high reward is the only game I play and it has worked very well for me, been very profitable. In fact, I am considering retiring at the old age of 39 here pretty soon, other than I like my job and might get bored...

 

[troybilt]

Brother None-- a brief tutorial on how to read an SEC filing

Report this postReply with quoteInterplay Financials Explained- reponse to a hack job.
by Austin » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:47 am

Sigh.. one guy who has no idea how to read financial documents makes an uninformed post at nma and it spreads like wifdfire. Allow me to shed some light.

Go get the 10-K in the previous link. Page F-3,
Trade receivables, 199,000
Other receivables 21,000
Deferred income 541,000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_income
so thats 762,000 in future money.

now factor in that about 9 years back interplay had over 120 Million in debt and now they ony have 2.8 million. They paid this down by selling off Hunter the recokning for 15 million, Galleon, shiney entertainment and the matrix property, and most of fallout.

so while Interplay keeps little cash on hand they do have incomming revenue.
now a company like interplay is going to have losses or expenses, that happens when your making Fallout Online.

2nd, The 10-K is from December 31, 2010. Since then they have released Prehistoric for the ipod,
Death and the Fly for PC, MDK-2 for the nintendo Wii and have several games in development.
Games that are bringing in needed revenue and income w/ more releases on the way.

They license developers to make the games and they take a cut. This is a low risk , low capital way of doing things and given they are not rolling in money its a smart way to do it.

3rd, They will win the Battle Chess lawsuit. For those that do not know a company called Topware tried to make a came called Battle vs Chess. where the vs was simply 2 crossed swords. Sorry,, thats a no go. Interplay won the injunction and they will win the case hands down. Easy money in the bank.

4th. Funding.. Interactive Game Group has put up 15 Million to fund Fallout Online and Masthead Studios has put up 20 Million dollars. Thats 35 MILLION dollars guys. Say it with me.. THIRTY.... FIVE.. MILLION DOLLARS. THIRTY FIVE MILLION GREEN BACKS.

If you read SEC statements often (like i do) you will then realize that these statements of "we may not be able to do this.. or that" are just legal blanket statements. Of course they might fail and of course they are not rolling in money but after the disaster that Brian Fargo left interplay in (even after Herve funded them via Titus Interactive) they are doing much much better (120 Million in debt vs 2.8 Million)

so what you have here is a person who has no idea how to read a SEC statement, who has not read the prior statements and who is just assuming that interplay is at the verge of death but the opposite is true.
they are comming out of a coma and starting to make progress.

All it takes is one man to write a hack job at nma and presto.. viral.. did the gamestop teenage 'reporters' look into the article? I bet not.. nope.. they just steal the article just like the other web sites do.

Now if we could only get an update on whats going on w/ Descent for the Wii????

 

[Elven6]

Seriously. Attention span of a gold fish. I've been quoting what I know. I'm not interested in fantasy numbers you guys speculate on.

They didn't reveal the monetary value of all their investments but they did reveal that investments were indeed taking place which is what I posted. From the little we know of the lawsuit these deals seem to be what Interplay is using as a defense regarding their funding.

Anyone watching from the sideline can assume if the money isn't coming in via the SEC reports but the company has investments and is claiming to have fulfilled the obligations required then the money to do so is likely from the investments. It seems you assume that it simply ends here and it must be correct, this is not the case. You use this lead and investigate further, as the public we don't have access to these documents yet though of course so for the time being it ends here. It's like how a detective works on a crime scene, you look for evidence, take statements, etc and build your case off of that.

Sure do. You were still trying to offer them up when I asked for facts.

Offer what up, Interplay's statements? I've read through my previous posts and I don't see how I have ever stated anything as fact. I merely stated what Interplay is claiming relevant to the MMO, lawsuit, etc. If that means it automatically becomes my opinion, then I guess anytime a journalist reports on a statement by a group they too share the same opinion?

Again, seriously. You guys need to research the industry you invest in. Don't get me wrong, game companies do recycle across projects, but it's not very common, especially not for big companies. Mostly because people notice, as with the heavy recycling from DA:Origins to DAII. And that was an exceptionally rushed project.

How does this deny the fact that internal resource databases are used? Unless you are on the inside it's impossible to know how much such databases are used, referenced, etc. Dragon Age was an extreme example of how the system is abused, here's a more realsitic example,

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18774

Your studios are all over the world. How do you manage the centralized tech with other studios?

MB: That is a great question, because there's a lot of infrastructure that goes into that. One of the things we've got is a central art database. All of our teams can pull assets from that, so when an asset gets made for a game - a fire hydrant, or a tree, or whatever it might be, even pieces of clothing - it gets put in a standardized format and goes to a central art database.

Having that available at high speed at all of our studios has been a big infrastructure challenge. Even just being able to move builds, which can be hundreds of gigabytes of data, able to move around so that the guys in Newcastle can take a look at the Vegas build, has a lot of server requirements and infrastructure.

That's one of those things, again, that's almost easy to say, but when you really get down to it, there's a lot of time and energy going in to making that work.

This isn't all that different from what Micro Forte did during the development of Fallout Tactics.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3088/postmortem_micro_forte_s_fallout_.php?page=3

I've read quite a few "start up" posts where the writers encourage having a centralized source for assets and other information available but those might take some time to dig up since its been a while.

You assume just because Dragon Age II was heavily recycled that any other game that shares resources will follow suite. But as shown above that's not always the case. The Fallout MMO can go either way assuming they are going to share resources.

Anyway, you are once again not carefully reading what I'm saying. I'm not talking about minor recycling, I'm talking about a title that at its core plays and looks the same, which without a proper budget is the only option.

Again, as I've previously stated it's pretty difficult to find an MMO which when broken down to the core mechanics isn't different from another MMO. The way I understand how this development relation with Masthead works is Interplay has the ideas, concepts, etc and Masthead simply develops them with the guidance of the Interplay team. Kind of like building a house, you can draw up the blueprints yourself and hand them off to a development company to build according to spec.

Further, I gave you examples of MMOs with a smaller budget than $30 million which are doing pretty well. Allods Online for one reviewed well to boot with almost all reviewers praising the visuals (something you think the Fallout MMO will "lack" hence have to borrow despite having more than double the budget on paper).

I'm not. You're under estimating when the real PR starts. It hasn't yet. 80 million is what they spent so far, before the real storm starts. They will spend much, much more on marketing yet. That was my point.

Doesn't matter when the PR starts, what matters is that the amount done to date still makes up for quite a bit of the project's budget. Regardless, as I've said many times in the past the handling and treatment of TOR will impact the Fallout MMO to a certain extent. Even if Interplay gets the cash to advertise the game, TOR already has a media blitz from years back. But to their credit, Interplay is at least trying to get the word out considering everything that's going on.

Remember, we're talking about the game itself in this scenario, not the number of subscribers, mindshare, etc. Can $30 million make a good MMO? It's certainly possible.

I changed what you quoted before you replied, but for clarity: the 300 million investment went all over the place, it's not the only source of money for ZeniMax. They could buy studios based purely on the profits from Bethesda's tentpole franchises. The point is this: they have the money, Interplay does not.

As I've previously stated, it's safe to assume given Interplay's claims that the money is coming from the investors so it's likely that they too have the money.

I don't see how the other revenue sources factor into it since this specific discussion is about the Fallout MMO funding (Interplay's regular funds and their ability to "live on" has been discussed previously).

Yes? And where is that $30 million coming from? Masthead isn't putting up any money. I've seen no evidence of an I2G deal. So?

As I've previously stated, the $30 million is coming from investments according to Interplay. Statements have been presented by the other posters which show how these investments can be valued at that amount. Your only defense for them not adding up to that amount seems to be "they haven't told the public" which is something they don't have to do anyway.

I don't know TOR's budget. It's at 80 million now. I wouldn't be surprised if it is above 100 million prior to release.

The only other MMO that I can remember with a budget that high is Tabula Rasa but that was mostly due to restarted projects (I think the game was scrapped and rebuilt three times before it released).

The game industry is not a high-wage industry. If you really want to claim Bulgarian software developers make more than twice what the average Bulgarian does, please offer proof.

Here's a list of the average wages in Bulgaria. Sofia is the highest in the country and depending on which spectrum you look at the salaries are just above what you've quoted. That being said, if this is indeed how the contract is being valued, perhaps other factors are also being added to the equation?

http://www.investbulgaria.com/CostOfLaborInBulgaria.php

 

[Brother None]

Re: Fact checks

You've got to dig a little deeper, do some research, be a journalist.

Heh. You mean what you want me to do is repost your opinion so positive spin is put on Interplay, like Duck and Cover does? Thanks but no thanks.

The I2G deal was publically disclosed in SEC filings for 15 million dollars awhile back, a year or two ago.

Link to it.

It was also referenced in the court documents on the PACER website as part of how Interplay is coming up with the 30 million figure.

I'm not a US citizen. I don't have access to PACER.

Bethesda's only legal defense

I don't care and I'm well aware Bethesda has made stupid claims in court. I've mocked them often enough. How many times do we have to go over that?

Masthead has stated that they are putting up 20 million of their own resources. Masthead has stated that they are privately funded by US investors and that they will put a minimum of 20 million toward the deal.

I'm not sure what Masthead is putting 20 million to. It's not a realistic number for 80 workers in Bulgaria. So what I'm saying is this: I will believe Masthead is capable of building an MMO on their own funds. But that is no evidence of 20 million USD, and it certainly goes nowhere to prove IPLY actually has the capacity to build an MMO with a budget of 30 million which, you'll recall, is what I asked you guys to prove, and you still haven't.

Whether or not it holds up in court is another matter. Such things are easier to get by in preliminary hearing than in a full case. Still, I haven't disagreed that they can get it by the judge because this is indeed a Bulgarian company whose financials aren't available to the judge. I haven't disagreed because I agree, and am not betting against Interplay in the court case, by dint of their lawyers being much better, as I've said oh so many times before.

The BVT deal is listed in the court documents.

Why do you guys insist on all these "it could happen that" stuff. Chances are great and all, but it's not what we're talking about.

Not sure what you count as a successfull investor, but I consider myself so.

Not you. But you will have first bragging rights if IPLY recovers, I promise. For now you guys have been sitting on penny stock for years and giving every bit of news a positive spin. Can you imagine why I, as a journalist, do not take any of you seriously? I'm interested in information, sure, including stuff not available to me directly, but all I see is unsubstantiated claims.

Report this postReply with quoteInterplay Financials Explained- reponse to a hack job.

Don't double post. Also, hellstrom is capable of registering here himself. Repost an insult-filled message like that again and get a strike.

I do occasionally drop by you guys at Raging Bull, to watch you congratulate each other on how well IPLY is doing. That post amused me since he seemed to think I wrote an article spreading like wildfire? Heh. This 10-K filing was old before I posted on it, I'm sure other sites posted on it before NMA and independently of NMA with the same content, and I wrote no speculation in my post.

Hey look, major sites reporting "Interplay in trouble" with no influence of NMA: Eurogamer, Develop, Screw Attack, Joystiq. Seems Develop got the ball rolling on everyone reporting on it. How 'bout you lower your ire at all of them, I'm sure they'll treat your guys inane delusional ranting with as much respect as I do.

I'll not say much about the personal attacks, but:

1. I know what deferred money is. It's not actually money Interplay had at that point. It may not have gotten all of those receivables by now. So how is it relevant to anything I said in the newspost?

2. I know. What does he want me to do? Make up a financial report for 2011?

3. Who cares? I don't see what that lawsuit has to do with anything.

4. We've been discussing this money and I am still waiting for you guys to offer any evidence that any actual money has been invested in Interplay.

Anyone watching from the sideline can assume if the money isn't coming in via the SEC reports but the company has investments and is claiming to have fulfilled the obligations required then the money to do so is likely from the investments.

No. I know, as others have stated numerous times here, that proving you have 30 million in court is not the same thing as saying 30 million has been invested in your company. So...?

How does this deny the fact that internal resource databases are used?

It doesn't. Hence why I can't respond to what you said following up on that, since this is not something I've denied.

Again, as I've previously stated it's pretty difficult to find an MMO which when broken down to the core mechanics isn't different from another MMO.

Well, this sentence makes no sense. And you're not addressing what I'm saying, vis-a-vis heavy vs minor recycling.

Allods Online

Is a free-to-play MMO, not really a comparable field.

But it's true that as you move east things become cheaper. A 12 million dollar budget in Russia takes you farther than in the US. I've said as much for Bulgaria. You guys denied it, not me.

Doesn't matter when the PR starts, what matters is that the amount done to date still makes up for quite a bit of the project's budget.

I would hope it makes up the majority, or the thing will really spin out of control.

But to their credit, Interplay is at least trying to get the word out considering everything that's going on.

They are? This game's PR is about as dead in the water as I've ever seen.

As I've previously stated, it's safe to assume given Interplay's claims that the money is coming from the investors so it's likely that they too have the money.

Hah, no it isn't. You really believe Interplay has 30 million USD? Really? Even troybilt is clearly stating they do not.

As I've previously stated, the $30 million is coming from investments according to Interplay. Statements have been presented by the other posters which show how these investments can be valued at that amount.

Nothing has been presented. Claims have been made. No evidence has been offered. At all.

The only other MMO that I can remember with a budget that high is Tabula Rasa but that was mostly due to restarted projects (I think the game was scrapped and rebuilt three times before it released).

Not just restarts, but also the insanely high wages of Richard Garriott. That thing was a disaster.

That being said, if this is indeed how the contract is being valued, perhaps other factors are also being added to the equation?

Of course they are. It's easy enough to conjure up a likely-looking "services" contract at 20 million. Just broadly overvalue the tech and the work. That doesn't mean it's actually worth 20 million.

 

[Elven6]

Re: Fact checks

No. I know, as others have stated numerous times here, that proving you have 30 million in court is not the same thing as saying 30 million has been invested in your company. So...?

It shouldn't matter since that's part of the obligations I mentioned (is $30 million required up front, over a period of time, etc). If the obligations haven't been met then no amount of money in the world will fix that unless you renegotiate.

It doesn't. Hence why I can't respond to what you said following up on that, since this is not something I've denied.

Fair enough but the original point was that asset sharing across studios is not as far fetched a practices as it may sound. It's something done industry wide by big and small.

Well, this sentence makes no sense. And you're not addressing what I'm saying, vis-a-vis heavy vs minor recycling.

I'll try to make it clearer, when it comes to gameplay there isn't a lot which differentiates MMOs. The main differentiators are usually the story, visuals, etc and the combination of things like mechanics. But the mechanics themselves usually aren't exclusive to any one MMO.

I think the heavy vs. minor thing has been discussed quite a bit above and until the game releases (or we see more) it's all speculation at this point.

Is a free-to-play MMO, not really a comparable field.

But it's true that as you move east things become cheaper. A 12 million dollar budget in Russia takes you farther than in the US. I've said as much for Bulgaria. You guys denied it, not me.

Why isn't it comparable? The only difference is the business model but it's still a 3D MMORPG is it not?

I never said outsourcing wasn't cheaper, I merely said some of your calculations might be off since they don't factor for certain things. With the data provided above to a certain extent we were both right.

I would hope it makes up the majority, or the thing will really spin out of control.

So what are you arguing for then, does a bigger budget make a better MMO or does a bigger budget make it more known? You really haven't provided much of a defense as to how a $30 million budget couldn't make a good MMO. If for $30 million all Interplay can get is a Earthrise clone how is it that The Old Republic with (in your words) a budget that emphasis PR gets a different experience?

They are? This game's PR is about as dead in the water as I've ever seen.

I'm the one with the "goldfish memory"? How about the newsletters, interviews, concept posts, etc? You posted about some of them yourself, remember?

There's only so much you can do or say during a lawsuit so all things considered its better than them nothing doing anything all and just releasing the MMO one day.

Hah, no it isn't. You really believe Interplay has 30 million USD? Really? Even troybilt is clearly stating they do not.

Again, this is what Interplay claims, perhaps I could have worded the last bit better since I was talking about the requirements for the MMO (again, according to them incase there is still confusion).

Nothing has been presented. Claims have been made. No evidence has been offered. At all.

They seem to be telling you exactly where the evidence is (SEC, Pacer, etc), how can you say nothing is being offered?

On the topic of who started these posts, I'm pretty sure it was Develop that did and everyone else just regurgitated that info. Most journalist don't bother fact checking in the industry anymore so not understanding what things like "Going Concerns" mean in the business world isn't surprising.

 

[troybilt]

yep, resources were listed

yep, as Elven6 stated all the information that was discussed in my posts is in public SEC filings and/or in the public records in the court documents with PACER. I said it numerous times. Please read through my entire post before commenting about how you feel this is all "conjecture" with no proof. The proof and where to find was offered numerous times.

Also as Elven6 said, just because you haven't read all of Interplay's SEC filings or kept up to date on the court case does not mean that when people who are commenting on these documents who have actually read them are just spouting "conjecture." The info is there in black and white. I specified where to find it but don't feel I need to spoon feed you and do the research for you and give you the documents (if I liked you more, I'd do it). Your the journalist not me. You can certainly pour over or locate documents without me having to attach them when they are all public info. I'm just an investor who loves to find high risk stocks and make lots of money from them when they hit. Again, I'm not saying all of this is 100% but it with Interplay but there was enough of a possibility for me to put some of my stock winnings toward another potential windfall.

But since you keep coming back to that we are making all of this up and creating our comments out of thin air and well cause I don't like the tone of your posts: the 15 million I2G deal is clearly specified in a SEC filing made by Interplay. Go to SEC website or interplay's investor website, interpaly.com/investors. Look it up. This deal is then commented on numerous times in the court documents with Bethesda trying to shoot it down by claiming Herve is buddies with the I2G CEO. Again, just because you haven't read the documents does not mean that this is not what is in the documents. Interplay is listing the funding and Bethesda is trying to find specious arguments to shoot it down. it is stated in black and white that Bethesda's argument against the I2G deal is that herve is friends with the CEO, which Herve denies.

In the court documents with PACER, Interplay specified in their legal argument that Masthead is funding 20 million. (not enough info to know exactly how exactly this will be funded is offered in the court filing to be 100% sure, but Masthead and Interplay are saying that the minimum number of dollars Masthead is bringing to the table for development costs is 20 million, how it is exactly structured is currently not public info, meaning is Interplay and Masthead counting the engine, employees, etc. in their figures--I'm betting that they are but this is only "conjecture" at this point. Obviously 20 million doesn't cover just the engine and employees so offering some "conjecture" I'm assuming that Masthead is claiming to also have their venture capital investors in the USA to pony up some more dough to fund Fallout online in the same manner that they funded Earthrise. Masthead is a privately funded Bulgarian company--all of the money comes from USA venture capitalists. Masthead had no previous income prior to getting USA investment money that I'm aware of and if these venture capitalists were willing to fund an unknown Bulgarian start up, seems plausible that they might be even more willing to throw a little more cash at a known and popular IP--Fallout)

Again as stated numerous times now, in the public court documents with PACER, Interplay gave proof to the judge of a financing deal that was nearly consummated with BVT, a company that has over 5 billion in investments. (Interplay already listed 35 million total financed but offered this nearly closed deal as additional proof of further dollars being allocated as needed ) The deal was held up pending the results of the court case according to Interplay--Interplay provided some supportive documents to back this all up).

(As an aside, Brother None, journalism often involves fully researching a topic before commenting as if one is an expert on the subject. First, do as many of us investors have done, read all of the SEC filings and every single court document that comes out, as many of us large individual investors with Interplay have been doing. Or if you are the lazy type and don't like fully researching a topic, then be nice to someone who does have the documents and has read each and every one of them, like me, and then you'd probably get a copy for free from someone like me (it costs a little money to get the documents off of PACER website but for a swell guy I'd foot the bill and just pass on the info.)

Oh yah, you could also look on duckandcover for documents. (the guy who runs that site is a very pleasant fellow. I'm not basing that because of his opinions on stuff that is sent to him but because he treats me and others with genuine respect and humility. Smart journalist. Good strategy. Even if one disagrees, at least do so respectfully. Also, head over to the Vault. Ausir has many of the documents from the PACER website. He posted most of them but not all of them. He likely has read many of the statements that we are discussing on this site regarding funding stuff.

Lastly, you can be a journalist without trying to act so much smarter than everyone else. The reason you get so many posts firing back at you is due to your condescending attitude and overall negative energy in the way that you post and disagree with people. I wouldn't even bother commenting if this same story had been posted by someone with less of a "chip on their shoulder" angry/aggressive attitude. Your smug comments rub me the wrong way so I find myself wanting to help "educate" you, wipe a little of that smarmy grin off of your face. I know its a waste of my time to do so, but I just can't seem to help myself seeing as how I have a huge stake in all this and will make tons of money if this risky investment I've made pans out...