Is excessive longevity a universally undesireable prospect?

[zegh8578]

Extreme longevity, or eternal life has been a fascinating idea to me for a long time, and in many forms I have included it in short stories, also in longer ones.
A comic strip I drew some years back:
[spoiler:32542c9eb7]

[/spoiler:32542c9eb7]

Now, nobody wants to grow increasingly old, but if youth could be maintained, I see no philosophical problems with living for aeons.
People are quick to go "B-but, I would have to watch friends and family die!"

And? We are talking eternity here, you would forget all about them in a matter of centuries, maybe even less - hell you would forget about all human languages in a couple of million years, and in a few billion years you would probably not even know what the hell kind of creature you are, and your whole "self" would be something blurry. You would be one with space. You would drift like a leaf between stars, in and out of galaxies. This universe would undo, and another would commence, and you would persist.
But before that, before we get into such an epic narrative - how can any one of us stand to miss out on the far future?
I find it unbearable... I will never know HOW humanity finally dies out, I will never find out WHERE the nearest intelligent life-forms reside, outside of this solar system. There is so much I would give anything - even watching "friends and family" perish, to get to experience, to get to KNOW.

And "boredom" would be a non-issue, even when floating around empty space, I'm sure of it - you woudn't have a choise - you would delve into your own mind, create your own worlds, create new lives for yourself, hallucination upon hallucination, infinite experience.
What people are so quick to decline, I would consider the greatest gift imaginable

 

[JohnnyEgo]

Books man, books.

"The Post Mortal" (Drew Magary) - No aging + no disease = apocalypse.

"Time Enough for Love" (Heinlein) - It's the ennui that gets you. So desperate for a new experience you go back in time and bring a whole new definition to a popular insult.

"House of Suns" (Alastair Reynolds) - Can't do deep time and stay baseline human. Physical limits of the brain if nothing else.

My own thoughts on the matter are very likely not original, but death is what defines life/makes us human/assorted other cliches inserted here. Bottom line is that no creature on the Earth lives forever, thus to do so is antithetical to nature as we know it.

Alternative is that you are already immortal with respect to time. You occupy a span of it in this universe, and always will. So there is that.

 

[zegh8578]

Books man, books.

"The Post Mortal" (Drew Magary) - No aging + no disease = apocalypse.

"Time Enough for Love" (Heinlein) - It's the ennui that gets you. So desperate for a new experience you go back in time and bring a whole new definition to a popular insult.

"House of Suns" (Alastair Reynolds) - Can't do deep time and stay baseline human. Physical limits of the brain if nothing else.

My own thoughts on the matter are very likely not original, but death is what defines life/makes us human/assorted other cliches inserted here. Bottom line is that no creature on the Earth lives forever, thus to do so is antithetical to nature as we know it.

Alternative is that you are already immortal with respect to time. You occupy a span of it in this universe, and always will. So there is that.

I realize death is essential to humans as a whole - I'm talking about me I can dream no?
Even if we did grant eternity to everyone, what harm would apocalypse do, if it cannot kill us?
Ennui would be overcomable by the sheer fact that my brain would eventually turn to mush. Some would obviously see this as problematic, I see it as handy, like I stated in my original post - I wouldn't really have a choise, I would go bonkers, and it would be for "my own good".
As for the "big scheme of things" eternal existence, I know I am eternal in both a wacky "multiverse" mindfuck sense: Me - the individual - may well re-appear in some point in time, if I haven't allready, but none of that benefits... me!
I also am eternal in the sense that all that makes me up, always exists, and always existed. Again, doesn't help me much, since what is minerals, cows, calcium today, will be me in some time from now, I am not benefitting from being both me and the cow, since I can only experience being me - now (braintwist).

I know eternity wouldn't be a cakewalk. But I would prefer that, to the pragmatic idea of absolute finality

 

[alec]

Re: Is excessive longevity a universally undesireable prospe

We are talking eternity here, you would forget all about them in a matter of centuries, maybe even less - hell you would forget about all human languages in a couple of million years, and in a few billion years you would probably not even know what the hell kind of creature you are, and your whole "self" would be something blurry. You would be one with space. You would drift like a leaf between stars, in and out of galaxies. This universe would undo, and another would commence, and you would persist.

There's a lot of probability in your statement. Making it sound naive and juvenile.

how can any one of us stand to miss out on the far future?

Things will only become worse, so the far future can go f*** itself, for all I care.

I find it unbearable...

No, you don't. If you really thought it was unbearable, you'd kill yourself. As long as you don't kill yourself, it must be bearable.

I will never know HOW humanity finally dies out, I will never find out WHERE the nearest intelligent life-forms reside, outside of this solar system.

What makes you think anyone will ever know?

There is so much I would give anything - even watching "friends and family" perish, to get to experience, to get to KNOW.

And what makes you think you would actually "understand" if you knew?

And "boredom" would be a non-issue, even when floating around empty space, I'm sure of it - you woudn't have a choise - you would delve into your own mind, create your own worlds, create new lives for yourself, hallucination upon hallucination, infinite experience.

So you find not knowing the answer to a couple of big questions and dying unbearable, but floating around in empty space for - possibly - all eternity gives you an intellectual boner, so to speak?

Humans...

What people are so quick to decline, I would consider the greatest gift imaginable

Is this a riddle? Is the answer: an STD? What do I win?

Bottom line is that no creature on the Earth lives forever

Actually, I think there is, but I'm too lazy to google it. It's a plant, as far as I remember, and it comes as close to immortality as anything/anyone ever will by cloning itself and so on. And then there's this reptile that can 'return' to being a baby as well. Theoretically, they could live forever.

 

[zegh8578]

Re: Is excessive longevity a universally undesireable prospe

There's a lot of probability in your statement. Making it sound naive and juvenile.

Of course there is probability, I am talking about something that has never happened and never will. What did you expect? Certainty?

Things will only become worse, so the far future can go f*** itself, for all I care.

That is very cynical. Rock-and-roll cynical.

No, you don't. If you really thought it was unbearable, you'd kill yourself. As long as you don't kill yourself, it must be bearable.

If suicide was "an answer". It isn't. Stop being so emo.

I will never know HOW humanity finally dies out, I will never find out WHERE the nearest intelligent life-forms reside, outside of this solar system.

What makes you think anyone will ever know?

What makes you think I think I know? Again, talking hypothetics here, just play along, you grump.

There is so much I would give anything - even watching "friends and family" perish, to get to experience, to get to KNOW.

And what makes you think you would actually "understand" if you knew?

Again, when did I ever state "And I would comprehend all of it! And use it for my business! And get rich! And use this money to buy stuff!" Never. Give me some credit, will ya?

NO!

Whatever, and stop being so predictable.

NO!

So you find not knowing the answer to a couple of big questions and dying unbearable, but floating around in empty space for - possibly - all eternity gives you an intellectual boner, so to speak?

Humans...

There it is! And I'm not talking about the roll, but about the "Oh, you humans!" approach. Yes, yes, I get it, you are aware you are a human too, but you are SO beyond the rest of us. In fact, one would need a telescope to even spot you! : O

What people are so quick to decline, I would consider the greatest gift imaginable

Is this a riddle? Is the answer: an STD? What do I win?

Read again, it was a statement not a question. Also, if you have an STD I'm afraid you win nothing, you should go see a doctor, and make a call around to warn the guys you've been with.

Bottom line is that no creature on the Earth lives forever

Actually, I think there is, but I'm too lazy to google it. It's a plant, as far as I remember, and it comes as close to immortality as anything/anyone ever will by cloning itself and so on. And then there's this reptile that can 'return' to being a baby as well. Theoretically, they could live forever.

I heard about the plant, or the fungus, or whatever it was. The reptile thing is making me very sceptical, but I'm gonna take your word for it.

Thank you for participating! Always a pleasure!

PS: Don't be so cynical! If the wind turns in the middle of an eyeroll, your face will get stuck like that!

 

[Lexx]

When reading your thread opener, I was instantly thinking about "I have no mouth, and I must scream" from Harlan Ellison. Really good sci-fi short story.

I, too, would love to see the future and the season final of the humankind tv show, but eternity? That is damn long and what are you doing if you start to get bored of everything? Will you be able to kill yourself? What if not? That feels to me more like eternal torment than great fun.

 

[zegh8578]

When reading your thread opener, I was instantly thinking about "I have no mouth, and I must scream" from Harlan Ellison. Really good sci-fi short story.

I, too, would love to see the future and the season final of the humankind tv show, but eternity? That is damn long and what are you doing if you start to get bored of everything? Will you be able to kill yourself? What if not? That feels to me more like eternal torment than great fun.

I will give you the oportunity to kill yourself, but in my opinion death is far too finite to take lightly. Now, I know very well that is easy to say, untill one faces real torment, but it's always in the back of my mind that there is no coming back from it.
It is one of the motivations behind this kind of "philosophy", that time in concious existence is so limited, it really makes me sad
I won't even get myself started on the myriads of people robbed of an oportunity, by everything from war, to mobsters, to random muggers, to airline disasters, to weather, to illness, spree shooters, you name it.

That said, I think eternity has been given a bad rep. There is also the mental factor of time perception. When you have only existed for five years, then an hour feels very long. When you have existed for twenty years, even a month seems to fly by. This has actually been studied, and this is your time perception adapting to your collected experience of time - the longer you exist, the faster time seems to pass for you. That could be SOME comfort, for an eternal being

 

[Walpknut]

Why would I want to live for so much time that I go insane and don't even know what or who I am? That's not living, just existing.

 

[ptar]

That's all you can do, son, exist.

 

[Crni Vuk]

considering the fact that I am somewhat afraid of aging (yeah no joke!), I consider long levity beyond what is "human" only a good choice if you can maintain a somewhat healthy body and mind.

 

[Courier]

It's time to consider taking the jump and uploading our minds to computers.

The Earth's population is nearing the number of neurons in the brain. We will awaken the Earth's collective unconscious. The internet will act as the synapses.

The Earth itself will become a single neural network.

We will become one. The time is approaching to shed your physical bodies.

It's okay if you don't understand right now. Soon you will, soon everyone will.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

God is here.

~~~

No, you don't. If you really thought it was unbearable, you'd kill yourself. As long as you don't kill yourself, it must be bearable.

Is that so?

 

[Ilosar]

If I could, I'd fix my expiration date to 400-500 years down the road. Enough to experience everything I want to, learn all I want to learn, see the world change and evolve in real time, love when it takes me, then die before life gets exceedingly boring.

 

[Tagaziel]

Re: Is excessive longevity a universally undesireable prospe

No, you don't. If you really thought it was unbearable, you'd kill yourself. As long as you don't kill yourself, it must be bearable.

How "Best of all possible worlds" of you.

 

[ptar]

The only thing that remembers us now is our permanent media, don't fool yourself, you can't go where machines are, only trees.

 

[AskWazzup]

Thinking about immortality from a mortal human perspective, who is constrained by the walls of human body, culture and thought will often be very skewed. We are social beings, who as individuals have a limited capacity for free, imaginative thought, see certain things in certain light... So of course immortality seems like a scary thing, but we are scared of most things that we don't know shit about. I, as zegh, see it (immortality) as an interesting thing, since if one could transcend his human limits who knows what could be in store for such an individual. There are billions of aspects of existence that we never experienced, so we only look at life through our own eyes, are own experience. Someone said something about knowing everything and being bored? Just think about that, just how much is everything... There is more thought than there is matter in space, or years for that space to even exist. And we only know existence, what if it is not the final "thing".

 

[mobucks]

One time my cousin was driving through rural Maryland when she heard her son begin crying. He was young, but old enough to talk sensibly. Let's say 4-5 years old. She asked him what was wrong. He replied, "That house we just passed? Don't you remember the fire there and all the men with buckets of water?"

Not sure how a 4 year old kid knows we used to fight fires with buckets but hey, maybe he saw an episode of Little House on the Prarie the night before.

This kid was interesting as a toddler though. There are a few more stories but the only other one I recall right now is another crying episode.

My cousin hears her son crying in the middle of the night. He was really sad but not hysterical. She asked him whats wrong? Tears streaming down his face, he replied "I'm starting to forget."
"Forget what, honey?"
"I'm starting to forget who I was before I came here"

 

[zegh8578]

askwazzup, you are hitting it on the nail here How unfair it is, that we are capable of knowing so much outside our "sphere of normalcy" (in the sense that our brain is made for this earth, yet our brain is adaptable, and it is capable of understanding that, for example, Jupiter is another world. All other creatures on earth will never notice Jupiter. We do.), yet there is so much we will never find out about, never experience. It simply comes down to a longing for information, satisfaction of curiousity, that we are doomed to go without :I

mobucks, that is pretty freaky I am usually pragmatically atheistic, but things like this specifically (a little kid wouldn't make stuff like that up, then cry) I will simply refrain from pretending to understand it, and place it in the "life's little mysteries"-shelf.
When it comes to the "unknown" I think it's perfectly reasonable to hope for the best, but hoping is not knowing. If eternity is indeed granted by consecutive lives, then I'm happy with that, but as long as I cannot know it, I will assume it does not happen - just for the sake of keeping recorded fact and my own wishful thinking separate

 

[thegaresexperience]

I'm conflicted on this issue. I'm scared/hate thinking about death so I'd rather not have to come to terms with my morality for a long time. Plus, maybe I'd get to see how this world comes to a end.

Then at the same time, I feel like life would just become boring. That and I'd have to watch the people I care about die while I live on.

 

[UniversalWolf]

We will become one.

That sounds truly hellish, like being stuck for eternity on an elevator with 6 billion schmucks.

Immortality and time-travel are only attractive as a pair. By itself each is far less appealing.

 

[Courier]

That sounds truly hellish, like being stuck for eternity on an elevator with 6 billion schmucks.

When humans are connected, small voices will become larger. When humans are connected, even life will get longer so.

No matter where you are, everyone is always connected.

The events that I have prophesied are fast approaching. Prepare yourself.