J.E. Sawyer on guns

[WillisPDunlevey]

maybe looking through old gun magazines from the 1950s would be helpful. Before the Gun Control Act of 1968, any gun (except for machineguns and other NFA weapons) could be sold by mail order.
If kennedy was not killed in the FA time line, then there might have been a completely different pattern of firearm ownership.

The GCA of 1968 also restricted machineguns that were made over seas. That means that all newer machineguns that civilians were able to buy between 1968 and 1986 had to be made in the usa. For foreign types, they had to be chopped up and then have new receivers made in the usa or semi autos had to be imported and then converted by a gunsmith (with proper licensing) or by some individuals. This killed the importation market for foreign machineguns (though there were a lot of weapons brought back from vietnam and amnesty registered in 1986 (or hidden away).

Also, I want to point out that the USA is awash in guns. Nobody knows how many and "authorities" dont have a good record. They only keep records of "Complete guns" imported or receivers imported or receivers made in the usa by licensed manufacturers.

Over the last 15 years there have been hundreds of thousands (or possibly millions depending on who you ask) of "parts kits" coming into the USA. They are not considered guns because they do not have a receiver. People in the USA can either buy receivers from a commercial source or make their own. People have been getting better and better at this.
people are making AK-47, AR-15, M1911 and other complicated receivers from scratch. Tons of submachinegun types (google "Tube gun") are being made as semi autos from receivers bought as simple pipe or metal tubes and they are not counted as guns. Some of the people making these types are creating their own hybrids or mostly new types using componants from other guns (trigger groups from AR-15, AK-47, Shotguns, and czech VZ-58s are very popular since they are a known factor)

I have been collecting data on this sort of stuff for a PnP Fallout game I am working on. Every day there is something new... A tube recever gun with Sten magazines, AR-15 trigges, A barrel scrounged from an Uzi kit etc. is a common type.

WPD
In the last

 

[SuAside]

maybe looking through old gun magazines from the 1950s would be helpful.

The (practical) future soldier concepts in the 50's were mostly M14's with a bigass scope (night vision capable) and sometimes a very weird looking grenade launcher (not the standard tube we are used to seeing).

Of course, the sci-fi future soldier was equiped with energy weapons and whatnot...

Before the Gun Control Act of 1968, any gun (except for machineguns and other NFA weapons) could be sold by mail order.
If kennedy was not killed in the FA time line, then there might have been a completely different pattern of firearm ownership.

That's why I really liked the Unamerican act kind of stuff, though I don't know if it is viewed as Fallout canon. Ask Ausir.

Would fit very well in Fallout's story, that the americans would clamp down and fight all non-american goods (except raw resources, ofc).
Makes it also impossible for stuff like a CETME/G3 to pop up...

I have been collecting data on this sort of stuff for a PnP Fallout game I am working on. Every day there is something new... A tube recever gun with Sten magazines, AR-15 trigges, A barrel scrounged from an Uzi kit etc. is a common type.

Ugh, just drop all 'real' weapons for your PnP dude. Fallout needs no real life weapons. While it's cool & all for the gunnuts, it's also a pain in the ass to make stats for them. You'll be questioned at every turn. If you use generic or guns of your own design, nobody can question you.

 

[Sorrow]

Before the Gun Control Act of 1968, any gun (except for machineguns and other NFA weapons) could be sold by mail order.
If kennedy was not killed in the FA time line, then there might have been a completely different pattern of firearm ownership.

That's why I really liked the Unamerican act kind of stuff, though I don't know if it is viewed as Fallout canon. Ask Ausir.

There were un-American guns in Fo1 - H&K MP10, Glock Plasma Pistol and Sig Sauer 14mm pistol for example.

 

[SuAside]

There were un-American guns in Fo1 - H&K MP10, Glock Plasma Pistol and Sig Sauer 14mm pistol for example.

Not really, since all large weapons manufacturers have factories in the USA, even today.

Some are pure production, but for instance FN-H USA designs their own stuff, seperate from Herstal, like the FNP and FNX series pistols.

FN-H has 2 factories in the US, HK has one, Beretta has one, Glock i'm not quite sure but i suspect they do.
Sig Sauer has Exeter (though that's complicated and I won't go into that right now).

Not much would change if they'd pop in an Unamerican Act. The land of the free is already not free at all when it comes to weapons that threaten their own gun economy... Norinco is banned and weapons cannot look 'evil' if they are to be imported (see Saiga for a reference).
Even today, large weapons companies have to have factories on US soil to get large government contracts.

Even if all ties were cut (if the Unamerican Act would be truly insane), they'd most likely still call themselves FN-H, Sig Sauer, HK, etc. Brand names are important.
See Sig Sauer USA for a reference there. Exeter is just an importer that has limited production capability. Yet they portray themselves as the genuine Sig Sauer & Swiss Arms combo. They are not. They just import stuff and have a few production licenses. Initially they were a subsidiary, but when a deal got botched with the US government, the european group hung Sig Sauer USA / Exeter out to dry. Yet, you really couldn't tell the difference if you don't know the industry.

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

I realize that there were non american guns in the earlier fallouts. What I was trying to say is that if Kennedy was not killed and there was no GCA of 1968, then there would be many more guns (and many more types of guns) from overseas available for purchase.

It is much easier to import weapons than to set up a factory in the USA to make the same weapons. Foreign companies only started setting up factories in the USA after restrictions on importation got high enough to make the new factories profitable.

Only the largest and most commercially viable companies can afford to do this. The smaller companies cant afford the investment.

Variety of weapons would be a good thing... rather than a 10mm pistol, a .32 revolver, a 44 revolver, a rifle, a lever action rifle, a shotgun, a SMG, and two types of assault rifle, there could be dozens.

 

[Ixyroth]

Kel-Tec actually makes a .223 pistol. I wonder if they got the idea from Fallout. Which came first?

Pretty useless though. Loss of velocity means loss of fragmentation (needs at least 2600fps), which is the main selling point of .223 (5.56mm). M4s are lucky to fragment beyond 80 yards.

AR15/M4s need a lot of care to run well. SKSs and AKs have much looser tolerances and are more likely to survive functional over a long period of time.

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

There were .223 pistols before 1997. Keltech was not the first by far.

Olympic arms and DPMS made AR-15 pistols. there were also some .223 bolt action pistols made by remmington a long time ago. TC contenders were also available in that caliber.

Bill Holmes made .223 pistols and other caliber pistols out of AR-15s in the 1980s.

 

[Herr Mike]

JE has put enough thought into the weapons to satisfy me. I'm not going to worry about an M4 being in there any more than I worried about a Desert Eagle in FO1.

It's likely enough that the same gun could be developed in alternate realities. The AR-15 was conceptualized in the late 50's, it is close enough to fitting the Fallout timeline. Being a good design, obviously at some point there would be a carbine version.

 

[Jack The Knife]

Its a small niggle of mine but come on, the M1A1 is in practically EVERY modern warfare game out there, it just seems like a lack of imagination on the developers part, although it is just a minor one.

You mean a M16A1 =P

M1A1 = Tank

M1A1 is also the first M1 carbine.

You might have to modify it some, but this weapon exists. Sort of. What you see below is a .410 gauge shotgun by Baikal.

A russian gunsmith made a 12 gauge based on the same (although strengthened) design.

That I had to google.
The KBP MTs255. I wonder if there are restrictions on importing this to Norway.
Would be great for hunting as one could switch to different shells very fast. Wonder if there are any drawbacks..
That is a cool design. It's on the same level as Winchester Model 1887; the 'Terminator 2 shotgun'.
The M1887 is actually in production again. Not by Winchester, though.


Edit

Bloody hell. The Russians are mad

MTs40 Four-Barrel Shotgun has got regular side by side shotgun barrels, a 5,6 rifle barrel over, and a 9mm rifle barrel under.

MTs28 Self-Loading Double-Barrel Shotgun has got a 3 round 5,6mm blow back operated rifle over, and a 2 round gas operated shotgun under.

Djiz!

 

[Aphyosis]

M1A1 is also the first M1 carbine.

I stand corrected.

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

The M1A type (really M14s that have been modified to M24s or Socom short barreled versions are very prolific in games these days.

This rifle figured prominently in blackhawk down. The delta snipers had one when they went in to protect Durant. it got a bit of screen time so everyone wanted one again (both in the military and in civilian circles) Then it started showing up in lots of movies and video games. Since they are semi auto (for the most part) its easy to get one and cheap (compared to a full auto M14) so they are common in all sorts of media now.

WPD

 

[Childmolester]

For some reason I feel that real-life weapons especially these Hi-tech in-service ones doesn't fit in the context of fallout universe. But still, having a bigger variety is nice.

I still believe that Bethsda did a poor job on designing retro-50s-ish weapons. Look at those energy weapons in FO3: like they're made out of junks. They looked nothing like the believable and retro-50s style energy weapons in fallout1/2. I wouldn't call them retro-50s, they looked steampunk at best.

 

[SuAside]

The M1A type (really M14s that have been modified to M24s or Socom short barreled versions are very prolific in games these days.

This rifle figured prominently in blackhawk down. The delta snipers had one when they went in to protect Durant. it got a bit of screen time so everyone wanted one again (both in the military and in civilian circles) Then it started showing up in lots of movies and video games. Since they are semi auto (for the most part) its easy to get one and cheap (compared to a full auto M14) so they are common in all sorts of media now.

WPD

oh boy... where do i even start?

the M1A is simply the commercial name used for a semi-auto M14 rifle made by a single company. the same company that makes the SOCOM and SOCOM 16 faggotry.

also, the M24 is a bolt action sniper rifle. you mean the M21 and M25 (later named White Feather), which are basically accurized and scoped M14s.

the reason for the reappearance of these rifles in the military are not due to bloody movies, but simply because they needed DMR rifles that could function in a target rich environment (higher rate of fire than a bolt action) and reach out & touch someone further than with 5.56x45mm (perfect for 7.62x51mm). the M14 variants were stuff they still had A LOT of in stocks, so they got em out again, put them through some maintenance and voila.

of course, the accessory market picked up on it and the civies wanted the 'new' old toys too.

calling an M1A/M14/M21/M25 cheap is however fairly retarded. and the fact they are more common in semi auto has probably something to do with the fact that when firing full auto, the first shot might hit, the second shot goes over their heads and the third shot becomes anti-air artillery... it's an incredible waste and for the same reason the brits made their L1A1 FAL variant semi-auto only.

of course, an actually full auto M14 in civilian hands will be worth its weight in gold, but that's hardly the reason why people restrict themselves to semi-auto. it's just not useful...