Let's rework ALL of the damage ranges for the FO weapons.

PsychoSniper

PsychoSniper

So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
(Note: I first saw a concept like this on a FO:C map I DLd, I think it was requeims BOScops one.....)


Some of the weapon values just seem comicly weak to me. Heres my reworked version to make things somewhat realistic. Ill take all the wepons and catagorise and edit them later.


Nuff said....... here's my basic theorem for it.


Pistol: around 15-25 damage per bullet. Caliber and weapon itself effect damage (a .44 magnum will do more than a 9mm mauser)(add +10 to the possible dammage range for the gauss pistol )
Shotgun: around 35-45 dammage per bullet. Dammage effected by shotgun used. Range would be decreased however, since shotguns arnt long range weapons.
Riffle: rounds 30-50 Dammage dependent on caliber and gun. (sniper rifle would do more dammage than assult riffle per bullet. for example) (add +10 to the possible dammage range for the gauss riffle )
Energy pistol 35-65 Dammage dependent on weapon (laser pistol<Plasma pistol<Pulse pistol)
Energy Riffle 75-95 (laser<plasma<Pulse) (gatlign laser will have same dammage range per shot as laser riffle)
ChainGuns ??-?? per bullet. Im not 100% sure about how to convert these, as you dont want them overpowerd too much. Most likley, Id think youd adjust them based on the caliber of their round, and what catagory the bulllet would fall into otherwise (pistol/riffle)
Machine Guns that were big guns would fall under the riffle catagory, due to caliber.
Flamers 80-100 (increase the fire resist value of power armors more, and combat armor slightly)

Mele Weapons: Im still debating how to edit these...... if to edit them at all

Blunt Force (things you hit people with)
10-15 standard, with some execptions for certain things like power fist and super sledge
bladed. (things you poke people with)
15-20 standard, with execptions for ripper


EDIT: I jsut realized this has more to do with moding than the FO setting.................. could a mod move this to moding and hacking ?
 
Pistol: Why? People usually don't get easily killed with one or two bullets shot into the body, that just hurts like hell. But with this, they would. Not realistic.

Shotgun: that much? Unrealistic, methinks. Or at least unrealistic if you don't have it decrease over a range. The shotgun stopping power decreases a lot with distance.

Rifle: again, much too much. Just a random bullet to the body will not instantly kill someone usually, yet this will.

Energy pistol: These are futuristic weapons, but again too much. One shot death without a critical is, quite simply, too much.

Energy rifle: insane. That'll kill some of the toughest enemies in the game with one, NORMAL shot. Completely unbalanced. And a gatling laser having as much damage per shot: I hope you mean per burst. The way gatlings and other burst weapons are treated in the game, IIRC, is by treating each bullet as a seperately shot entity for damage purposes. That makes for completely different calculations that can't just be overhauled.

Flamers: again: I see no reason to change it. Changing it to that would make it completely unbalanced.

Blunt Force 10-15 standard? That's ridiculously huge. People fighting normally, instinctively, are very non-lethal in damaging, and inflicting severe or lethal damage with your fists is very hard. That much 'blunt force' is just silly.
Remember: the Vault Dweller is not a hand-to-hand expert, unless he has a lot of hand-t-hand. As such, that doesn't actually need any editing.
 
BosCops was one of Endocore's maps.

While I think some weapons could always do with a bit of adjusting, the trouble with such high damage weapons in a TB RPG is one shot kills just ruin the game. The only way to balance out weapons that did so much damage is to make them so inaccurate (to the effect of simulating ducking and diving?) Otherwise the player would never survive an encounter with multiple opponents, as it is you can spend half the time using stimpaks in combat anyway.
 
Thats what this thread is here for Requeim, to decide what adjusting needs to be done.

I think the weapon progression needs to go

mele weapons
pistols
SMGs
energy pistols/gauss pistol
rifles
energy rifles/other big guns/gauss rifle

I suppose now we need to determine HOW to adjust it.
 
Well in the terms of FO3 it really depends on what sort of game it's going to be, in terms of editing FO2 then really I think you really need to look at the placement of weapons rather than the damage they do.

As to the order of weapon availability, it would kind of be odd to follow your weapon progression, you can balance the game much better by having a more realistic carry weight limit. Melee weapons ought not to be relegated to the poor starting weapon catagory, trouble with the Fallout games is there's way too much working ammo around. If ammo was scarcer or the player wasn't able to carry so much at once then the humble melee or unarmed attack would be much more valuable without needing to change the damage. Then if the player found a powerful rifle early in the game they'd be handicapped by the amount of ammo available or that they could carry.

Having high damage weapons, that might kill in two - three hits, might work in FOT because you've got a squad of 6 under your control (though they did ruin the opportunity by linking the death of the main character to game over) but in the RPGs, when you've only got the control of your character it just be overpowering.

To quote OTB

OnTheBounce said:
Basically, your HP represent not only your capacity to absorb physical punishment, but also your skill at evading attacks that would have laid a lesser mortal low, will to carry on in the face of adversity, and even luck/divine intervention. This is why discussions about kinetic energy, temporary vs. permanent wound channel, etc., are in effect bunk since there are metaphysical as well as physical factors at work here. The amount of physical damage that your character can absorb peaks out not long after his/her adventuring career begins and all of his/her muscles have hardened up as much as they're going to. After that it's all skill and the other factors mentioned above.

Basically, game balance is the final arbiter just how much damage a weapon does. A Hunting Rifle should be as deadly to your character when he/she first encounters it as a Gauss Rifle is when it is first encountered.

OTB
Click to expand...
and

OnTheBounce said:
What in game mechanics resolves itself as a "hit" with your character targeting an opponent's head doesn't mean that your character actually shot the target in that area. What it means is that you have succeeded in wearing your character down by making him throw everything into a dodge, and making him skin his knee really badly while also making him use up a little bit of his luck. This in turn leaves the target more vulnerable to later damage, which is when you actually score that "well placed head shot" and lodge a projectile in his brain pan, immediately ending the fight.
Click to expand...

His full posts are here and here.
 
Re: Lets rework ALL of the dammage ranges for the FO weapons

PsychoSniper said:
Pistol: around 15-25 damage per bullet. Caliber and weapon itself effect damage (a .44 magnum will do more than a 9mm mauser)(add +10 to the possible dammage range for the gauss pistol )
Shotgun: around 35-45 dammage per bullet. Dammage effected by shotgun used. Range would be decreased however, since shotguns arnt long range weapons.
Riffle: rounds 30-50 Dammage dependent on caliber and gun. (sniper rifle would do more dammage than assult riffle per bullet. for example) (add +10 to the possible dammage range for the gauss riffle )
Energy pistol 35-65 Dammage dependent on weapon (laser pistol<Plasma pistol<Pulse pistol)
Energy Riffle 75-95 (laser<plasma<Pulse) (gatlign laser will have same dammage range per shot as laser riffle)
Click to expand...

Hmmm I thought the game was too easy already. Some changes need to be done, but wouldn't this kind of damage adjust make you plow through enemies like butter?
 
It would allow sides to be more lethal.


Basicly. itll make truly RPing it, rather than simply fighting everything, more feasable.
 
Say what? No it won't. It'll change combat and unbalance it, because there will be one-shot kills all over the floor, and it'll also irritate people a lot because they die with one hit. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with Roleplaying. As the speed-runs demonstrate, you can get through the game without fighting anyway.
 
Besides, Psycho, you're shipping out soon, I don't see alot of time for FO in your future.

:p
 
only for a few months.

Once I get to my duty station Ill have my laptop with me (unless Im in Iraq, and then Ill proably buy an olllllllllld el cheapo laptop that cant run much other than Fallout.)

EDIT - that is... Ill buy something cheap to run FO on that is replacable/expendable if its broken (that, or just use my issue laptop if I get one :p )
 
Pistol shots can most certainly kill a person. Trauma, shock, blood loss, disruption of internal organs, etc. I think that pistols SMGs need work because they become pretty useless in the later game just because they're so weak by that point. However, this is obviously a game and balancing it also has to come into consideration.

I think it's better to have weaker weapons that hit the target more than powerful weapons that miss a lot. It's annoying enough when you miss in the normal game. - Colt
 
My experience with both FO1 and FO2 was that the combat was very difficult in the beginning when you have few HP and skills, then at some point it crosses into too easy later in the game. And the more you know about the game (how to best use the weapons, perks, etc) it gets easier and easier.

I'm not sure what the answer is to balancing that out, because most games suffer from this. But I think that making the weapons so powerful would be too deadly early in the game (unless everyone gets more hit points). Then later in the game the player is always more skilled than everyone else. The critters in FO don't get the perks, and most don't get many bonus AP etc.

In theory it should be possible to balance out the game more by dynamically adjusting the enemies based on the characters level, but that would be a lot of work to implement.
 
Hmmm......... would simply adjusting the action point requirments work ?

A pistol is smaller and lighter, so theroeticly itd be easier to bring to bear and shoot than a riffle, which would be easier to bring to bear and shoot than a gatling gun.


A Logic progression for such an adjustment could be as follows........


Pistol-SMG-riffle-big guns

pistol-3 AP 4APtargeted
SMG---4 AP 5APtargeted
Rifle---5AP 6APtargeted
BigGuns-6AP 7AP targeted
 
Except no big guns support called shots.

I once saw it theorized (hell it may even be someone's mod) that guns cost only a few AP to bring to bear, but more to reload. This seems to make sense; shooting is just so much "point, pull trigger" while reloading, especially revolvers, is lengthy. I can't imagine it's easier to speed-load a revolver than it is to reload a magazine-fed pistol, but that's how it is in Fallout 2 (Of course if someone's actually done both, please speak up!) This would of course change combat immensely, but it would change weapon balances if all of a sudden it cost 5 AP to relaod an M-60 (They're called Crew-loaded weapons for a reason...)
 
Colt: and those are the critical hits. Usually, one shot to the body will not kill a man.

As for the action points, the AP-cost of a gun isn't just bringing to bear and shooting, it also incorporates aiming, which takes up the greater part of time. And in that respect, the AP cost of a Gatling gun would be less because aiming is then restricted to 'pointing in a general direction'. However, it's a lot bigger, and that balances out the AP cost.
 
My utmostly humble opinion in this matter is that if you want to make guns more truly powerful then the key is to make them rarer, pretty much what requiem_for_a_starfury said. If everyone had less guns, maybe less armour in some cases and perhaps even less HP (like in Fallout 1) then anything with bullets in it would be far more deadly. Also, close combat weapons, be it unarmed or melee, would be far more useful (if not outright necessary).
 
Lord 342 said:
I once saw it theorized (hell it may even be someone's mod) that guns cost only a few AP to bring to bear, but more to reload
Click to expand...

We can't change the reload AP in FO2, we can only change the AP for each attack mode (single or burst). These are the only AP data stored in the weapon prototype.
 
PsychoSniper: last time I checked,"Big Guns" and "Energy Weapons" were separate skill classes in the Fallout games.

I wouldn't know much about either skill since I rarely play a non-HtH character in F1 and F2. However, if you believe that the damage stats in the firearm weapons should be modified, then how would you suggest modifying the HtH attacks to compensate? You can't ignore unarmed combat in all of this.
 
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