Martial arts, unarmed combat and Fallout

A

Alesia

It Wandered In From the Wastes
This is more of a research question for a fanfic. How do you view usage the the unarmed skill? Pugilism Illustrated has a drawing of boxers on the cover but the description Here states it's a collection of writings on martial arts.
Anyway, I was mucking about with the idea of an unarmed character that was proficient in something like kung fu or tae kwan do but A.) would ANY of those have survived in the US with Asia being viewed as the enemy and B.) where would be the most likely place for someone learn it if those fighing styles did survive somewhere?

Any other ideas are open for discussion too, there may be some fighting styles I'm not aware of and I'd be glad to consider them.
 
I don't think any single style would survive intact. Instead, what would be most likely to happen is a hodge-podge would be created out of various different half-remember techniques, from all popular martial arts in pre-war USA. Boxing and wrestling might be more pre-dominant since it's 50s and kung fu and tae kwan do hadn't really mad their way over there, but some creative license is fine there, I'd think.
 
After doing some quick internet research I found way that Eastern Martial arts would fit into the Fallout Universe.

Robert Trias was stationed in Tulagi in the Solomon Islands from June 1944 to November 1945 as part of the United States Naval Reserve. While he was over there he met Tung Gee Hsing, a Chinese missionary of Chan (Zen) Buddhism. Hsing often watched Trias work out and imitated his boxing footwork, and he asked to practice with Trias. Trias refused because Hsing was "just a tiny little guy," but Hsing was persistent and at last Trias agreed to spar with him. Hsing gave Trias "the biggest thrashing of his life" and Trias then asked Hsing to instruct him in the martial arts.

In late 1945, shortly before Trias left the Navy in January of the following year, he began teaching martial arts in his backyard. He later opened the first karate school in the United States mainland in Phoenix, Arizona in 1946.

An American War Vet came back to teach the fighting styles of the East which caught on despite Asians being viewed as the enemy during WWII. Following that, It would make sense that Martial Arts would have been incorporated into American culture before WWIII.
 
That's kind of what I was thinking. Like the person who's teaching my MC learned from the Shi and now they are passing it on.
 
With respect, since your opening post seems to suggest that you're looking for logical consistency in your work, I'd steer as far from the Shi as I could.

In answer to your question, as has been pointed out here, martial arts and a certain (racist and bastardized) mystique surrounding the "secret and deadly arts of the Orient" really started seeing an uptick during WWII and the period that followed, which, IIRC, is an area where our history and Fallout's still largely overlap. Culturally speaking, I think there might have been ostracism from some as tensions heated up with China, but it would probably have been possible to think about it as a spoil of war from the defeated Japanese, and regardless, the practice of it would have persisted amongst immigrants and veterans, who were just as likely to live through the apocalypse as anyone else not in a vault. After the devastation, when weapons were scarce, people would naturally turn to whatever technique would best ensure survival, and, as BN said, I's sure this would bring about a hodgepodge of melee and unarmed fighting styles over time.

Besides, "Yellow Peril" and the allure of the "mystic orient" aren't mutually exclusive, even in our own history. Heroes like The Shadow and Green Hornet's Kato used (purported) "Eastern Secret Techniques" and even actual martial arts while existing alongside some of the most offensively stereotypical Asian villains ever created during the golden age of radio and television, and America's fascination with Asian fighting styles rose to its peak during the Cold War, when over half the Asian continent were Communist "enemies" of the U.S.
 
BonusWaffle said:
No. Anyone who did taekwondo would die almost immediately because taekwondo is retarded
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Anyone who practices martial arts for a long time has a considerable advantage over an untrained, unathletic hoodlum.

And TKD is only "retarded" within sterile and artificial rules of the ring, just as many other TMAs have a whole arsenal of technique which is vital in reality yet 100% useless in the ring.

Because in reality bad guys don't square up with you, and there's no guarantee that there's just one of them or you, and the ground isn't sterile, and there are makeshift weapons, and most importantly, their goal is not to fight, but to win/get what they want.

There's also no relaxed time limit of 20 minutes where you can roll on the floor and probe each other's openings. It's more like 20 seconds.

This radically changes the nature of reality attacks toward more of a samurai "one-hit wonder" attacks, where the first hit is the hardest and then they take your shit and run away.

A "useless" TMA technique that sends the opponent tumbling a couple of steps without falling, is crap in the predictable and sterile environment like the ring, while in reality it can be timed to smash someone's head into a parking meter or throw them into traffic. This is where 360 awareness and calm taught by TMAs comes in handy.

In real life, it's often not necessary to overpower and "submit" or "choke out" someone who is being hostile. Oftentimes it's enough "not to lose" rather than to "win".

If you're sitting in a bus and catch someone's hand in your pocket, your MMA arsenal is going to force you to either go apeshit on them or ignore the encounter, while finer TMA techniques would allow for a wristlock which ends the encounter gracefully and quickly.

Look at what a BJJ practitioner does when accosted by a drunk in a restaurant. Limited by his ring mindset, he tackles the guy. Not only it is complete overkill which made him look like a douchebag, not only he could've been stabbed, buy the drunk verbally owns him as this is all happening. Rightfully so.

So don't give me this kneejerk shit about TMAs. What you watch on TV isn't reality. It is two highly skilled athletes fighting in a sterile environment with a set time limit and a singular goal. They're not going for each other's wallets or guns, which would introduce a whole new set of "suddenly viable" technique.

There was a video by one MMA guy who happened to formerly train in "useless" Chinese arts, specifically in sticky-hand exercises(chin-na, I believe).

When his home was invaded by armed guys who were likely going to kill his family, the chin-na training is what saved his life - not the ground-and-pound bullshit you see on TV. He openly admits that if he used his "normal" MMA training, his family would be dead.

He made a sincere and informative video about it, wish I could find it.
 
I purposely front-loaded the post as to eliminate the need to repeat myself in further replies. If all you have to show for it is a stupid one-liner, then so be it.
 
I'm fairly sure there would have been plenty of books on the matter. In a hand-to-hand confrontation the Americans probably knew they had a big disadvantage so they most likely trained soldiers with basic Eastern moves.

The Russians would have probably brought their sambo.
 
shihonage said:
I purposely front-loaded the post as to eliminate the need to repeat myself in further replies. If all you have to show for it is a stupid one-liner, then so be it.
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Yes you certainly wrote a lot of useless information, im not entirely sure who it was aimed at as I never disagreed with most of it.
Taekwondo isnt a martial art. Taekwondo is a place where little kids learn "discipline". Before I got into Kali/Silat ive been in fights with taekwondo practitioners and what ive found is they are very overconfident and very unskilled. It might give someone and advantage over an untrained hoodlum as you said, but as to the OPs question would the art survive, no, as it is completely useless as an actual form of combat, anyone who relies on it would die almost immediately in a post apocalyptic world.
 
BonusWaffle said:
Yes you certainly wrote a lot of useless information, im not entirely sure who it was aimed at as I never disagreed with most of it.
Taekwondo isnt a martial art. Taekwondo is a place where little kids learn "discipline". Before I got into Kali/Silat ive been in fights with taekwondo practitioners and what ive found is they are very overconfident and very unskilled. It might give someone and advantage over an untrained hoodlum as you said, but as to the OPs question would the art survive, no, as it is completely useless as an actual form of combat, anyone who relies on it would die almost immediately in a post apocalyptic world.
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Claiming that a TKD-trained, thus physically advantaged with understanding of kicking and punching distance and increased spacial awareness, person would die almost immediately in a post-apocalyptic world, filled mostly with the untrained or "street trained", is complete garbage.

Sorry you beat up some kids and came to a different conclusion. Yes, it's my turn to end with a stupid one-liner this time.
 
Well, the particular style I want to focus on is Kung Fu and it makes sense that the vets would bring it back from China. What I'm having trouble conjuring up is a logical place where my character would have learned it in PA America.


I'm fairly sure there would have been plenty of books on the matter.
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Yes there would be books/holotapes (IIRC the Shi still had pre-war Kung Fu movies) but I'm not sure you'd learn it entirely correctly like this.
 
In regards to realistic retainment of technique in a post-apocalyptic world, I do believe Brother None is closest to the truth.

If you didn't learn a traditional style before the apocalypse, or if it hasn't been passed down generations in a Vault, it's going to be pretty dead.

Nobody will be learning in a structured environment.

Outside the Vault everyone will have their own set of dirty tricks, and some will be better at it than others.

There would be be a big boon for blacksmiths who produce concealable swords and machetes. Cutting weapons don't need ammo and reloads, they are "always on".

The post-apoc TV show "Revolution" is a complete and total joke, but having swordfights was the one correct decision they made.

A sword is one of the more natural ways to extend one's reach and deadly power, and smaller stuff like knives don't really stand a chance against that.

Maybe there would be a market for shourikens or similar flying objects, but I am unfamiliar with how realistic it is to cause massive damage with these things. Also picking up after yourself is not convenient.

In short, whatever technique emerges, it will likely be based around effective wielding of makeshift weapons, and also last-ditch attempts at disarming people with makeshift weapons.
 
I get ya. Like instead of going 100% unarmed, have her carry a katana as the primary weapon and only resort to bare fist fighting if she's some how disarmed.
 
25upen7.jpg


:lol:
 
BonusWaffle said:
shihonage said:
I purposely front-loaded the post as to eliminate the need to repeat myself in further replies. If all you have to show for it is a stupid one-liner, then so be it.
Click to expand...

Yes you certainly wrote a lot of useless information, im not entirely sure who it was aimed at as I never disagreed with most of it.
Taekwondo isnt a martial art. Taekwondo is a place where little kids learn "discipline". Before I got into Kali/Silat ive been in fights with taekwondo practitioners and what ive found is they are very overconfident and very unskilled. It might give someone and advantage over an untrained hoodlum as you said, but as to the OPs question would the art survive, no, as it is completely useless as an actual form of combat, anyone who relies on it would die almost immediately in a post apocalyptic world.
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You don't happen to live in America, do you? Because it sounds a lot like you're talking about the kind of watered-down "Taekwondo" they teach in strip mall dojos with absolutely no standards for oversight or accreditation (see also, "Karate"). I used to know an old South Korean army vet who would regularly take apart any and all comers with the real thing (which is saying a lot, considering my home ground wasn't wanting for serious dojos for just about any style you could care to name).
 
This is true, but the "real" stuff is still a lot better than they teach in the McDojos. America (perhaps other places in the world, I can't speak from experience) has a big problem with a lack of accreditation. Anyone can call themselves a "Martial Arts Master" and open up a glorified daycare center where you basically earn the right to buy a blackbelt by showing up often enough in your gi. Karate and Taekwondo seem like the worst offenders, probably because they've got the most name recognition amongst the general populace.
 
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