Mr. House - Saviour or Tyrant?

D

DForge

Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Since many gamers are confused about Mr. House - what do you think of him? I supported him in my playthrough and it seems wise. However, assuming he takes the "throne" of independent Vegas, based on the information we have in the game, do you think humanity will benefit from his rule? Rule over Vegas region, not over humanity, ofc.

Some facts about him:

1. He's a genious. Smart enough to outlast death and shoot nuclear missles from the sky (in FO universe this I guess isn't a small thing).
2. He calculates an optimum scenario like a machine, yet is a human, which is safe compared to skynet-like YesMan.
3. He has some weird tastes (creating a robot in the image of a girl and using it to "entertain him"? That sounds creepy). But he also states that it's no concern of his what people do in their time.
4. He wants to become a dictator, but states glory, fame and other petty human ambitions don't interest him.
5. He has a vision of being able to take mankind to the stars after like 100 years, hard to say if he actually does that though since the ending gives VERY vague info about his time.
6. Is a cold person, very analytical, and seems to lack empathy.
7. Doesn't seem to care for ordinary people, more about his "vision". States openly that he never cared for "saving the world" when talking about his anti-ballistic defense of Great War.
8. Seems immortal as long as he isn't "killed".


So, the question is:

Do you think that given enough money, power and independence, Mr. House may actually do good for humanity? Greater good, not just sending out patrols to the desert to grant some safety to caravans like NCR. For example, his star plan. Or do you rather think he'll remain just an enigmatic computer-man gathering caps in an independent gambling/prostitution/drug den?
 
House a saviour ? Good joke. Maybe if he did not just lived in a glorious picture of the past and only sticking with that building huge casinos instead of REALLY making working comunities in that sense Vault City from F2 was more "civiliced" then his state/town. So no, hes not a saviour. Just yet another desilsioned crazy genius.
 
House claims he has no interest in ambitions that drove those three, though.

And he doesn't seem to plan anything hostile to humanity. No global purge project, no "one race", and so on.
 
Well his plan is to use the massive influxes of cash to start rebuilding, in 50 years he claims he will have a man in orbit, in 100 years he claims he will have colonization ships to find a new un-polluted home for humanity. Should try talking to him before you call him a tyrant, no speech checks or anything have to pass for him to tell you his grand plans.

He spends his whole life in a pod, he isn't making money for the sake of making money, what the hell would he spend it on, he can't live.
 
Enclave 86 said:
Well his plan is to use the massive influxes of cash to start rebuilding, in 50 years he claims he will have a man in orbit, in 100 years he claims he will have colonization ships to find a new un-polluted home for humanity. Should try talking to him before you call him a tyrant, no speech checks or anything have to pass for him to tell you his grand plans.

He spends his whole life in a pod, he isn't making money for the sake of making money, what the hell would he spend it on, he can't live.
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I agree.

Some people think otherwise though and I wanted to hear why :)

To me he's better than NCR as a choice for Vegas.
 
The only thing House seems to care is his own well-being. Sure, he talks all sweet, but so does every politician out there. Vegas is his very own playground, working only to serve him. Don't think for a second he won't wipe out the whole town if it stands in the way of his plans.
 
DForge said:
Enclave 86 said:
Well his plan is to use the massive influxes of cash to start rebuilding, in 50 years he claims he will have a man in orbit, in 100 years he claims he will have colonization ships to find a new un-polluted home for humanity. Should try talking to him before you call him a tyrant, no speech checks or anything have to pass for him to tell you his grand plans.

He spends his whole life in a pod, he isn't making money for the sake of making money, what the hell would he spend it on, he can't live.
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I agree.

Some people think otherwise though and I wanted to hear why :)

To me he's better than NCR as a choice for Vegas.
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I still killed him though, couldn't have him making non-pure humans our first people to colonize another planet, forever out of reach of the Enclave, his goals were noble and killing him was the hardest thought but the Enclave comes first so...
 
Niether, he's just an everyday douche with a whole load o' cash.

Even though it tells you disaster has befallen humanity on his death, I think he's over rated, a dieing man with unlimited funds bent on immortality and in possesion of a giant robot army? Probably not a good thing.
 
Okay let's see:

Fact is, his last 2 (or just 1, depending how you're looking at it) 'brilliant' plans failed.
-Pre War he didn't get what he wanted in time, and his plan failed; it was no complete failure, but it failed.
-After the war his plan to correct the failure also failed, and it failed as much as it would have ended in a complete failure. That's where the player comes in.

So he claims he wants to help, he seems to be quite 'brilliant', but what can we observe in the game itself:
-He threw poor people out of the strip and made their lives even worse; he even threw out people from the Vault 21 without having any good reason, or at least non given. So it doesn't seem as if he cares about people.
-He played the NCR off against the Legion as good as he could, causing more deaths (at least that's a impression i get). So he's causing more suffering.
-He seems to make deals with whoever he thinks is helpful for his plans, without really being able to judge them. So i wouldn't trust in him not cooperating with the wrong person and getting booted out.
-Either he is ruthless or maniac and power hungry (see H&H computers). Which also isn't exactly a sign for somebody i would trust. Taking a look at Victor and his 'plaything' i would vote for both.
-He doesn't play with open cards. He does not want to tell you more about the chip, or the different factions out there or anything - so why should i trust him with anything?
-He wants you to give him power in exchange for what? 1000 caps, while claiming before that he paid allready thousands on it - So he's a real bad bargainer or his even more bad with real persons, because he thinks contracts are as worthy as before the war (if they were worth something in that times).
-He rebuilt just the strip, while seemingly not even trying to rebuilt quite important things (you know like farms, water suply or other industry). Which lead myself to doubt all his 'i will bring back real civilization' to the wasteland claims, because i don't see him building the industry for it.
-His company seems to have built quite a lot 'weapons' - from stealth boy, over the securitrons to Liberty Prime, so i wouldn't think of him as a humanitarian.

So i see no real reason to trust him making the wasteland any better. Sure the strip (not even Freeside, but just the strip itself) might flourish under him, but besides that?
I'm simply not convinced by him being good for the wasteland and just not a few people on the strip. While i can really see the NCR making the life better in quite a bigt part of the wasteland.
Sure they won't bring everyone the luxus one of the few lucky on the strip might get under House.
 
Bad_Karma said:
Okay let's see:
-Pre War he didn't get what he wanted in time, and his plan failed; it was no complete failure, but it failed.
-After the war his plan to correct the failure also failed, and it failed as much as it would have ended in a complete failure. That's where the player comes in.
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Mr. House isn't a seer. He seems to base his plans on probability - this means even taking a plan with most chance of success doesn't mean it will automatically succed.

Seeing how close he was to completely survive a nuclear holocaust while everything else was annihilated, he did at least as well as the Enclave. And he was one man, not the government.

A genious, truly.

-He threw poor people out of the strip and made their lives even worse; he even threw out people from the Vault 21 without having any good reason, or at least non given. So it doesn't seem as if he cares about people.
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He tells it openly that he doesn't.
However, what I understand is that House doesn't really care for a single man, what he cares for is the general picture. Humanity overall.
While cold and ruthless as it seems, this may be the best choice instead of constructing another democratic country that "cares" for people and ends up killing them by plunging the world into nuclear war.

House actually has very good line here:
"Want to see how democracy ends? look outside the window"

Which is true.
So yeah, he's basically using people to reach a greater goal.. at least that's what I assume.

He played the NCR off against the Legion as good as he could, causing more deaths (at least that's a impression i get). So he's causing more suffering.
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Which as a part of the plan. Mr. House needed time. NCR - after winning - would claim the Strip by force. So the longer NCR was occupied by the war, the better.

Is it that bad? Think that you've a cure for cancer, a method of immortality developed - but a short-sighted army wants to invade and take your lab because of profits it brings. WHile aware of the fact that they can't possibly use your knowledge, wouldn't you do everything to stop them - for the greater good of humanity?

I think House does what he must. NCR is annexing EVERYTHING of value. He gets a good self-defense line there.

He seems to make deals with whoever he thinks is helpful for his plans, without really being able to judge them. So i wouldn't trust in him not cooperating with the wrong person and getting booted out.
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You imply Benny? The courier is a player character so he obviously doesn't count in a RPG game.
That's why I think House lacks empathy: he's pure maths. I agree that it's a fault, but that doesn't mean he's automatically a poor choice. With a good "right hand", he might be the - well - last, best hope for humanity.

Either he is ruthless or maniac and power hungry (see H&H computers). Which also isn't exactly a sign for somebody i would trust. Taking a look at Victor and his 'plaything' i would vote for both.
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What's wrong with Victor? House is cold, yes. Ruthless, maybe. But I guess that in a world he is in, it's necessary. At least he doesn't make smiley faces to people and then annex them. Unlike NCR (which represents modern democratic government) he's honest in what he thinks. He doesn't seem to lie or mask things with pretty speeches, unlike Richardson or Kimball for that matter.

He doesn't play with open cards. He does not want to tell you more about the chip, or the different factions out there or anything - so why should i trust him with anything?
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And why should he trust the player immediately? One person whom he trusted - Benny - already betrayed him. Guess you can say he calculated the probability of courier betraying him and it's big enough not to give him exact details at first task ;)
(seeing you have Yes Man as an option - this is perfectly logical).


He wants you to give him power in exchange for what? 1000 caps, while claiming before that he paid allready thousands on it - So he's a real bad bargainer or his even more bad with real persons, because he thinks contracts are as worthy as before the war (if they were worth something in that times).
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1000 caps is not to give a character too much at this point of game. Consider it something like the fact that non-hardcore Boone gets up after being hit by a mini-nuke.

He rebuilt just the strip, while seemingly not even trying to rebuilt quite important things (you know like farms, water suply or other industry). Which lead myself to doubt all his 'i will bring back real civilization' to the wasteland claims, because i don't see him building the industry for it.
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Mr. House doesn't want to start a country, so why should he build farms?
He already maxed out Vegas - it's big and beautiful (leaving game engine limitations aside ofc).
Not every successful country or city has to be agricultural or industrial-based.
See countries that have tourist-based economy, for instance.

His company seems to have built quite a lot 'weapons' - from stealth boy, over the securitrons to Liberty Prime, so i wouldn't think of him as a humanitarian.
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Liberty Prime, I consider this non-canon (fallout 3)
Stealth boy is more like a spy device
Securitron can be just an automatic cop and nothing more.

So i see no real reason to trust him making the wasteland any better. Sure the strip (not even Freeside, but just the strip itself) might flourish under him, but besides that?
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He never had the funds AND power needed to make the change... until the point NV gameplay takes place. What happens later... hard to say, epilogues are WAY too vague.
It may also be that he doesn't care about rebuilding the radiated land. Perhaps his calculations indicate that the stars are the "only way". WHo knows, we can just speculate ;) Obsidian didn't bother explaining and I got pretty pissed at epilogue saying... well, pretty much nothing.

I'm simply not convinced by him being good for the wasteland and just not a few people on the strip. While i can really see the NCR making the life better in quite a bigt part of the wasteland.
Sure they won't bring everyone the luxus one of the few lucky on the strip might get under House.
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Again:

Look out the window. That's how democracy ends.

NCR is by all means not bad. It's democracy that sucks. Because it can't be implemented without turning into Oligarchy ruled by power-crazed guys like Enclave.

I'd rather stick with 300yo genious that seems to lack the ambitions of Enclave or NCR's governments.
 
-Either he is ruthless or maniac and power hungry (see H&H computers). Which also isn't exactly a sign for somebody i would trust. Taking a look at Victor and his 'plaything' i would vote for both.
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Maniac House boss from H&H was not Robert House we all know but his brother Anthony House, the one who cheated Robert of all family inheritance after their parents death.

As for me I really thought Mr. House was a good choice until he ordered me to destroy The Brotherhood completely without any alternatives, which was too much for my courier. So I have to kill House but that was really the hardest choice in the whole game for me. Also killing him was unpleasant and not enjoyable at all. Just something had to be done.
 
His only goal is a cult of self.

- His scope doesn't extend beyond his limited fiefdom.
- He regards the people within his borders as nothing but a workforce with no rights and no benefits. Those who question him are violently banished and those who remain must still look after themselves for the necessities.
- His vision doesn't benefit mankind so much as it bolsters his megalomania.

To follow him is not to hope for mankind but to willingly serve as feudal serf to a rich man - for a rich man is all he is.

In effect, that's what we have:

- A liberal democracy with the NCR
- A fascist dictatorship with the Legion
- A feudal monarchy with House
 
Brotherhood is useless and dangerous to humanity. And House himself. Wiping it out is a necessity to me.

A faction that's main goal is to strip people from all tech and keep them in dark age forever? Waste of time. Techs that may heal the wasteland or remove radiations are probably locked forever in Brotherhood databases, too. Humans kill each other with Combat shotguns instead of Gauss rifles, that's the difference.

Broterhood is dangerous, too. Factions develop robots or power armor, the fanatics come with blazing energy guns to kill all who pose such "threat". House and Yes-Man both predict Brotherhood would be a burden.

So killing brotherhood is the best idea overall.


- A liberal democracy with the NCR
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In fallout universe, liberal democracies end up with nuclear holocausts, and elected government experimenting on people with FEV.
Great choice.
 
DForge said:
In fallout universe, liberal democracies end up with nuclear holocausts, and elected government experimenting on people with FEV.

Great choice.
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Yes, and the alternatives are clearly worse.
 
Being killed by raiders in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

Also, you're forgetting: The US wasn't the only side in the global nuclear conflict.
 
Nalano said:
Being killed by raiders in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

Also, you're forgetting: The US wasn't the only side in the global nuclear conflict.
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Not saying it was. Still, it ended like it ended. The Enclave was remnants of the democratically elected government, I believe.

What I'm trying to say here is that NCR may - as I've wrote in another thread - become something like pre-war US one day. with an illusion of democracy, but in truth, power-hungry government trying to decide the fate of humanity instead.

House is relatively safe. He lacks the power to rule the world. Given independance, he may discover things he dreams of though - like the stars. That's why supporting him is fine, with little to no danger to the world.

NCR is not evil by default. Enclave also wasn't. It was the system that sucked. I think the Remnants' quest - my favorite quest in the game btw - shows well that good people can as well serve under tyranical, oppresive governments.

NCR are good folk, but one day, it may end up with nukes flying around again.
 
Nalano said:
His only goal is a cult of self.

- His scope doesn't extend beyond his limited fiefdom.
- He regards the people within his borders as nothing but a workforce with no rights and no benefits. Those who question him are violently banished and those who remain must still look after themselves for the necessities.
- His vision doesn't benefit mankind so much as it bolsters his megalomania.

To follow him is not to hope for mankind but to willingly serve as feudal serf to a rich man - for a rich man is all he is.

In effect, that's what we have:

- A liberal democracy with the NCR
- A fascist dictatorship with the Legion
- A feudal monarchy with House
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Actually talk to him or read the thread, his goal is to use all the money he makes to quick start technological progress when things settle down, in 50 years he says he will have men in space, 100 he will have colony ships to find a new home for people. He lives in a box, wtf good is money to him, he can't buy a bigger house, he lives in a box. His goal is the future of humanity, whether I like it or not.
 
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