NMA Op-ed: Fallout 3 PAX Impressions

[Beelzebud]

Well one of those Troika guys ended up at Blizzard working on Diablo 3, and he had a few things to say about staying true to the games you're making sequels for.

Diablo 3 is still isometric, and it's still Diablo. It's just in a 3D engine now.

You don't have to make a first person shooter to be successful. It's just stupid to even suggest that.

 

[aronsearle]

I really don't understand how a game with many active fans, that was still making sales years after release, can be considered a "dead franchise", also considering beth where not the only interested party, just those with the biggest wallet.

hmmm I don't agree. I think its the setting and the story.

The original devs decided on the games mechanics, before they decided on the setting and story.

This isn't "the chicken and the egg", we know what came first.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Game comunity- those people who naver played previous Fallouts, mostly

yes since knowing and playing previous titles should be a game requirement to enjoy it. Thats kinda elitist attitude common to some hardcore aspects of communitys. Since the casual players or zomg the ones with consoles dont know what thy are talking about right?

No one has said or is saying that. The point is simply that those you point out loving the game generally have no experience with the franchise and it's a bit ridiculous when they tell old fans that they will like Fallout 3 or that it really is a true sequel. Some of this group even mock fans of the franchise for pointing out that the game isn't a sequel.

In the case of Fallout I agree that you shouldn't have had to play past games to enjoy it (you didn't with Fallout 2) but playing past games should add to the enjoyment. The game should also logically follow from the previous title with the core remaining the same which means that it no more changes the setting from post-apoc to thriving scifi future or medieval fantasy than it does change the core gameplay from PnP emulating to FPSRPG hybrid or a platformer.

 

[PaladinHeart]

The point is simply that those you point out loving the game generally have no experience with the franchise and it's a bit ridiculous when they tell old fans that they will like Fallout 3 or that it really is a true sequel.

Err how can you love a game if you haven't played it yet?

I'm looking forward to Fallout 3, but don't love it. I'd have to play it first and determine then that I like it a lot.

And I've been around since the Fallout demo. I have both the original boxes of Fallout 1 and 2. So I know all about the whole black isle thing. It's funny though because I didn't really keep up with all the politics between Interplay, Black Isle, etc.. back then and got Black Isle and Bioware confused. xD (they both start with a B... it's an easy mistake >.>)

Actually I kinda blame Bioware for Black Isle getting pushed out of the picture. Or am I mistaken and Bioware was not associated with Interplay at all? (too lazy to research it but it's a simple question for anyone who knows)

 

[ookami]

"people" being the group of fans that want another copy of the old games

Where are these people? Please, do point out these people. I haven't been seeing them. They certainly aren't around here.

Because wieners are just you living in the past and dead fish is SO much more immersive.

Also because dead fish is more popular. More people eat it, so you should eat it too. Nothing but dead fish will be successful and you can't market anything less popular using a smaller part of the profits from the sale of dead fish. All food should be dead fish.

All hail the marketing department!

 

[beverageleverage]

Fallout 3 was well recieved with the most of the mainstream game community, hyped even.

Yes, the mainstream gaming community is easily taken with shiny graphics and explosions

For me at least and im pretty sure many more, Fallout is more that turn based isometric combat. Who said sequels arent evolving due to gaming needs and dont have core game changes?

Really?! There is more to Fallout than turned based combat using SPECIAL? Things like dialogue, choices and consequences, atmosphere, etc, no way! Those are not the "core concept" of any game, gameplay is. In fallout's case this is pen and paper emulation, beth has eliminated this completely.

becouse its a well established name in the gaming industry and the setting beth whants ? Hence all the numerious sequels nowdays that dwarf the number of new named relises

Like I said, using your retard logic about pandering to the lowest common denominator, console gamers who are relatively undiscriminating, Beth calling their game Fallout 3, something these people have no idea about, does not make sense.

Its kinda the same story as with Bioshock and Oblivion when some fans where crying havock and the dogs of war yet the games where an market sucess and fun actualy

Look closely and you may notice both system shock and morrowind were first person real time action games with rpg elements, and their sequels bioshock and oblivion were also first person real time action games with rpg elements. Fallout is not a a first person real time action game with rpg elements, beth changing it into one and declaring their game a direct sequel is ridiculous.

not really altrough the box success does point to a relative quality of the product. Personaly i will buy it becouse it is a spiritual and named sucessor of the series, and if its entertaining and fun as most of the previews claim it is my reasons will be the same as buying any other game

You are making my point. You are buying a name and a name only, because it might sell well and might be entertaining. That is because you are a casual gamer, there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion though I'm sure a few around here would fiercely disagree. But you seem incapable of understanding the difference between your own approach to gaming and people who actually care about what they are playing.

oh and turn based pen & paper combat rpgs are so popular nowdays ? since there are so many of them out there... And if my memory serves right even with Van Buren thy planned to add real time next to turn based

Beth, just followed the market trends, fps aspect does sell, niche doesnt, rest are simple maths. As long the game entertainiment value doesnt decrease i couldnt care less and im sure it will be the same with the majority of gammers

Again, making my point, you do not care what you play. You care so little that "following marketing trends" and "possible entertainment value" are all that really matter. Try to open your mind just a tad to the concept of someone who actually enjoyed the original fallout games (or any other franchise should you find yourself in a similar situation), not just because they were sortof entertaining and might have been popular, but because they honestly liked the style of game.

 

[Casual Gamer]

Console gamers perhaps don't need to be as discerning because fewer games come out on consoles, PC gamers have to wade through so much poopy games.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

The point is simply that those you point out loving the game generally have no experience with the franchise and it's a bit ridiculous when they tell old fans that they will like Fallout 3 or that it really is a true sequel.

Err how can you love a game if you haven't played it yet?

We're in total agreement, it doesn't make any sense and yet look at how many awards it's already won? You might be right that there aren't people who love it yet but things such as those awards and some of the articles which are narratives from the character's point of view rather than the journalist's are deceiving. I'll concede that it was a poor choice or words and far to general to describe of whom I was speaking. To make it clear there are people who will see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil about the game and try to shove that down other's throats and that was basically the crowd of which I was referring.

Console gamers perhaps don't need to be as discerning because fewer games come out on consoles, PC gamers have to wade through so much poopy games.

I don't know about that, sure there are more games for PC but I am pretty sure that there are more high budget games for consoles than for PC which would require console gamers to be more discerning. Still, I don't have numbers and don't care to look them up and you haven't provided any figures so unless they are provided it's not discussable.

 

[golfmade]

Console gamers perhaps don't need to be as discerning because fewer games come out on consoles, PC gamers have to wade through so much poopy games.

Eh? There's plenty of crap games on consoles, and while my first console ever was an NES and I primarily only played N consoles while growing up, I can remember a lot of rentals that turned out to be total crap and was glad I rented it instead of bought it.

 

[M-26-7]

The Sims is the be all and end all of many arguements here, including the one recently brought up about how Iso and PC-exclusivity would kill Fallout. The Sims is not an FPS. The Sims is not for consoles (at least not originally and the console versions aren't even as close to PC sims popular). The Sims is the best selling, most popular game of all time. Period. You cannot argue with that.
Just try to say that an ISO game is too niche or that PC-exclusivity will kill a game when we have the Sims.

 

[PaladinHeart]

They should finish and polish up Van Burren and release it at the same time as Fallout 3 and see which one does better. I dare them. I double dare them.


.... yes I would buy both games.

 

[Ad Astra]

Just try to say that an ISO game is too niche or that PC-exclusivity will kill a game when we have the Sims.

And don't forget the Civilization series! Also notice how Civilization: Revolution, the simplified, console-only Civilization game is not called Civilization V.

 

[rcorporon]

And don't forget the Civilization series! Also notice how Civilization: Revolution, the simplified, console-only Civilization game is not called Civilization V.

Hell, notice how Halo Wars isn't Halo V?

Know why? Because it's not a true Halo sequel.

 

[Galghorn]

That's a new chapter of our civilization.
At the begining in the 80's, with Oric, Commodores, Amstrad CPC etc... there was very difficult games with no synopsis not attended to be finished, just pure gameplay.
Later, there was games that you can even finish by being a true r0xx0r. Later, in the 90's, there was games with more or less synopsis, a begining and an end and true gameplay. some were called CRPG and fallout were part of it.
At the end of this period, the videogames begun to be a worthy indistry making money and begining to have his place next to music and cinema.
Then there was a new dawn. The dawn of the big industries that needed to touch a whole market... the scenario and the graphics beguns to encroch the gameplay and the depth of the gameplay.
Today, the industries - who want more and more money, because we have never enough of it, isn't it ? - can't sell a game if 12 years old childs cannot play it. Too much lack of earn (don't know if it have a sens in English, but you get the point).

Now, if you really want a fallout 3 that is the perfect sequel of the initial serie, you need to :
1 - wait for a opensource project to make one
2 - find a rich person who don't care loosing millions of dollars by hiring a crew of developper and give it in free download on the internet or selling it illicitly (because ESRB will never allow anymore a game like the originals fallout with the abilitie to kill children, being an hooker or a porn star to be selled in any marketplace)

Sorry for my lacks in english, hope that you could decipher it ^^

And, to finish :

This isn't "the chicken and the egg", we know what came first.

Actually, the first was a single cell organism

 

[PaladinHeart]

Hell, notice how Halo Wars isn't Halo V?

Know why? Because it's not a true Halo sequel.

Halo 2 wasn't a true Halo sequel. The first one is the only one I'll ever like.

And no, I'm not trolling. That's really how I feel. They whored the flood and made them intelligent.

Then there was this whole pointless drama thing about cortana, an AI entity, getting infested by the flood.

Why don't they just infest all the weapons and turn them into transformers while they're at it?

I never tried the third game and, thankfully, only rented the 2nd one. I saw some of the online play for the third one and it looked like a really bad joke. The only thing missing from it was circus music.

Actually, the first was a single cell organism

Single celled chickens?

Wait, don't bother. I found your proof for you. One chicken in a cell.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Later, in the 90's, there was games with more or less synopsis, a begining and an end and true gameplay. some were called CRPG and fallout were part of it.

The 90's neither introduced CRPGs nor games with a plot (is that what you mean by synopsis or are you talking programing?), begining, end, and all the gameplay associated with such, but it was when the thrived (until the late 90's that is).

 

[Galghorn]

Later, in the 90's, there was games with more or less synopsis, a begining and an end and true gameplay. some were called CRPG and fallout were part of it.

The 90's neither introduced CRPGs nor games with a plot (is that what you mean by synopsis or are you talking programing?), begining, end, and all the gameplay associated with such, but it was when the thrived (until the late 90's that is).

It was a general summary, i'm not going to make the full history of videogames i'm aware there was CRPG (i used to love some games like SRAM or Wasteland with many other, but like you said, it's the period they have thrived. The dates were just for the purpose to illustrate the evolution of videogaming.

 

[God is Dog backwards]

Has that speech quirk - where acting true to your character has an affect on your game - been confirmed? If done correctly that sounds like a genuine evolution for dialogue heavy games.

 

[PaladinHeart]

I remember when I was working on Fallout Tactics I was going to have a dialogue system where your character talks to NPC's based on how much life they have left, such that your nicest possible responses would happen when you had full life, and the less life you have, the more untrusting your character is, all the way to them being grumpy and telling lies. x]

I know, weird system, but it didn't work out because the actor tags are lost after you save/reload on a different map.

I'd really like to see a game where your character starts to automatically respond in certain situations based on your karma, making for a somewhat randomly different game outcome after a certain point.. basically like you're setting up their personality up till a certain point in the game. To simply allow the player to decide what happens up till the endgame, or even allowing the player to decide at that point, seems like a waste of the karma system to me.