Pats are running up dem scores

[Cimmerian Nights]

Also, seriously, what's up with the going for it on 4th&6 in the red zone when 52 up, then the same when 59 up? Fucking Pats.

It's called treating your opponent like a man by giving them the opportunity to man up and stop you instead of going for the easy 3 (isn't that worse?), instead of patronizing them. Titans did step up and stop them the second time.
Would it make the Titans feel bigger if the Pats just took knees for the last 20 minutes? That's not more emasculating?

It's kind of a moot point, the Titans gave up on their season before they got off the plane. They are to blame for looking like shit.

Belichik is an easy guy to figure out: he applies all the resources at hand in the manner that gives his team the best chance of winning, that's all.
Catering to the opposition's egos, playing grab-ass with the media and disingenuous dog-and-pony shows of midfield handshakes don't further that agenda in the slightest.

Split this if you have to.

 

[Sander]

Yeah, look, generally I don't have a problem with running up the score and scoring some extra points when the line is 27-0 or whatever, and I have no problem with trying to score normally instead of just rushing down the clock: watching teams play a game is more fun than watching QB kneels.

But when you're up 52-0, there's not even the slightest chance in hell your opponent is going to come back, you could think twice about being a dick and completely humiliating your opponent by *going for it on 4th&6 in the red zone*.

That's not 'giving them a chance to stop you'(seriously, as if the Titans really care if they get a chance to stop you, they haven't been able to all day anyway), that's being a dick about your superiority on the field. It's like playing sports with a kid with Down's syndrome, and then kicking them when they're down. It's classless and completely unnecessary.
A true champion is a champion on and off the field. Bellichick sure as hell isn't.

Belichik is an easy guy to figure out: he applies all the resources at hand in the manner that gives his team the best chance of winning, that's all.

When you're up 45-0, keeping your extremely valuable and slightly fragile QB out there, along with your star WR who's been having trouble with a niggling injury, while the opponent hasn't shown even a hint of moving toward your goal line is not doing all you can to win. It's stupid.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Yeah, look, generally I don't have a problem with running up the score and scoring some extra points when the line is 27-0 or whatever

27? That's not arbitrary at all. Where is your exact cut off point.

And what course of action do you suggest the Patriots take in that situation?

But when you're up 52-0, there's not even the slightest chance in hell your opponent is going to come back

That's their fault. They're collecting paychecks after that game no?
But aww, the poor Titans, just victims. They could've manned up and played competitively.
They laid down. They didn't try.
That's Bill Belichik's fault?

you could think twice about being a dick and completely humiliating your opponent by *going for it on 4th&6 in the red zone*.

that's being a dick about your superiority on the field.

Where were you when the Bears let their 400lb D-Tackle score a TD on the Pats in the Super Bowl in a what 52-10 blowout?
The whole country loved the Fridge and cheered Ditka on, I don't remember any talk of showing up the other team.

That's not 'giving them a chance to stop you'(seriously, as if the Titans really care if they get a chance to stop you, they haven't been able to all day anyway),

So you kick the field goal and rub their noses in it more? You pretend to fumble it, you run it back to your own endzone for the safety?

What do you do?

It's like playing sports with a kid with Down's syndrome, and then kicking them when they're down.

Wait, that's a respectful approach to your opponent? Assuming that they are inferior, inept cripples?
Clearly you are the one that doesn't respect the Titans.

The Patriots treated them like a peer, not a pack of inept cripples like you would have.

It's classless and completely unnecessary.
A true champion is a champion on and off the field. Bellichick sure as hell isn't.

This was all on the field. What off-the field shit are you talking about?

Tomorrow morning the paper will show the standings.
There's a win column.
And a loss column.
Does class clinch a playoff spot? Ask Wayne Fontes.
Does class keep you employed? Ask Tom Landry.

This is the NFL, you win or get fired. It's cut throat. But that's the way it is.

When you're up 45-0, keeping your extremely valuable and slightly fragile QB out there

Brady's rusty as all hell. He needs the reps at game speed.

The Patriots have looked like shit up to this point. There's 10 more games to play and not a single guarantee of anything. They need to get their shit together, and game speed experience is the only way.

 

[Sander]

27? That's not arbitrary at all. Where is your exact cut off point.

And what course of action do you suggest the Patriots take in that situation?

It was an example, not a hard rule. Also, I'm not saying the Pats should stop playing football. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

That's their fault. They're collecting paychecks after that game no?
But aww, the poor Titans, just victims. They could've manned up and played competitively.
They laid down. They didn't try.
That's Bill Belichik's fault?

No, that's not my point either.

That's two arguments you try to make that completely ignore what I was saying, and in fact aren't even relevant.

Where were you when the Bears let their 400lb D-Tackle score a TD on the Pats in the Super Bowl in a what 52-10 blowout?
The whole country loved the Fridge and cheered Ditka on, I don't remember any talk of showing up the other team.

And irrelevant argument #3.
As for where I was? Not into American Football is where.

So you kick the field goal and rub their noses in it more? You pretend to fumble it, you run it back to your own endzone for the safety?

What do you do?

Kick a field goal like any normal team would do. That's not rubbing their noses in it, that's simply playing the game as you would.

Going for it on 4th & 6 with a sure lead definitely is not how you would ever play the game. *That* is going "Hey we're so much better than you we're going to just assume we'll get those 6 yards. And if not, who cares, it's not like you could do anything?"

Wait, that's a respectful approach to your opponent? Assuming that they are inferior, inept cripples?
Clearly you are the one that doesn't respect the Titans.

The Patriots treated them like a peer, not a pack of inept cripples like you would have.

Yes, when you're up 45-0 it's obvious that your opponent is equal to you in quality.
OHSHI-
No, I don't respect the Titans at that point in the game. They looked like shit. Everyone saw that. You'd have to be deaf, dumb, blind and a zombie to not notice that.

The Patriots need to treat them like a peer once they step on the field at the beginning of the field. But when you're at the point in the game when you've beaten them soundly, when you've shown that they are, on that day, not a peer, you don't go and rub it in.
The disrespect comes when you treat the D as if it can't do anything. When you go for it on 4th&6.

When you treat a game like a peer, you're in the red zone, you don't go for it 4th&6. Have you ever seen someone go for it on 4th&6 in the beginning of the game? When you're still treating your opponent as a peer, instead of someone you can happily squash as roadkill over and over again?

This was all on the field. What off-the field shit are you talking about?

This refers to not just winning the games, but not being a dick about it.

Tomorrow morning the paper will show the standings.
There's a win column.
And a loss column.
Does class clinch a playoff spot? Ask Wayne Fontes.
Does class keep you employed? Ask Tom Landry.

This is the NFL, you win or get fired. It's cut throat. But that's the way it is.

Could you stop with the irrelevant points?
When up 45-0 at halftime, there's no question about winning the game anymore. Anything you do after that is not about winning the game anymore. You've already won it.

Brady's rusty as all hell. He needs the reps at game speed.

The Patriots have looked like shit up to this point. There's 10 more games to play and not a single guarantee of anything. They need to get their shit together, and game speed experience is the only way.

Playing against an opponent who's playing at that level is not getting you much added experience, I'd think.

But hey, the choice between game rhythm and injury risk is one the coach has to make. I can't really judge, and this may be the right call.
But given the fact that they're up against the Bucs next week and then have a bye, do you really think the added experience vs a really weak Titans team would be the clincher anywhere? I'd think that the risk of losing Moss, Welker (who even returned a punt late in the game for fuck's sake) or Brady would outweigh the benefits of another half of play experience vs an incompetent defense.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

So the only thing relevant is the score?

-They did not score in the 4th quarter.
-Brady was out by the end of the 3rd.
-They were playing their last string RB, rookies all over the place. As many as you can have in that make a 43 man dressed roster.
-40+yo Junior fucking Seau (human speedbump) just flew in off the beach from surfing in SD
and you think they were pouring it on?

Should they've played only 10 scrubs, would that be classier?

What does Brees have, double the TDs Brady does? But he's all good because he keeps it within your 27 Point Threshold of Classiness?

Your whole argument is predicated on assuming the other team is a worthless, inept losers. That's inherently demeaning, elitist and unclassy assumption in itself. The Titans are one player away from an NFL best 13-3 record last year. The Pats just got spanked by Denver and completely embarrassed by the JETS.

So you kick the field goal and rub their noses in it more? You pretend to fumble it, you run it back to your own end-zone for the safety?

What do you do?

Kick a field goal like any normal team would do. That's not rubbing their noses in it, that's simply playing the game as you would.

How is kicking a field goal within the 15 yard line not rubbing it in? It's a higher percentage play at that point. The Titans did man up and stop them once.
What's not rubbing it in at that point?

Laying down for your opponent's self-esteem isn't on the agenda anyway you cut it.
Or, if it is, just make a sacrifice move so teams can throw in the towel like boxing. Save us all the grief of watching a one-sided blowout like that.

The Titans were a broken team before they got off the plane. There are a lot of guys making millions on that team that gave up.
The Pats really aren't that good.

 

[Sander]

So the only thing relevant is the score?

-They did not score in the 4th quarter.
-Brady was out by the end of the 3rd.
-They were playing their last string RB, rookies all over the place. As many as you can have in that make a 43 man dressed roster.
-40+yo Junior fucking Seau (human speedbump) just flew in off the beach from surfing in SD
and you think they were pouring it on?

Should they've played only 10 scrubs, would that be classier?

And yet, yet, yet again with the irrelevant points.

I was commenting specifically on going for it on 4th & 6 in the red zone. Twice. When up respectively 52-0 and 59-0.

What does Brees have, double the TDs Brady does? But he's all good because he keeps it within your 27 Point Threshould of Clasiness?

Your whole argument is predicated on assuming the other team is a worthless, inept losers. That's inherently demaning, elitist and unclassy assumption in itself. The Titans are one player away from an NFL best 13-3 record last year. The Pats just got spanked by Denver and completely embaraassd by the JETS.

Are you having trouble reading?
Once the Pats are up 45-0, it's really, really, really clear that the Titans are, in fact, inferior. And the things I'm referring to happened *after* that point.

I'm not talking about the Saints, because it took a while for the Saints game to actually be out of the reach of the Giants, and the Saints never did something as insanely arrogant as going for it on 4th&6. Also because I haven't actually fully seen a Saints game, since ESPN America hasn't broadcasted one yet, so even if the Saints were in a situation like that, I probably wouldn't have seen it.

Now please stop the strawmanning. It's annoying and you're not fooling anyone.

How is kicking a field goal within the 25 yard line not rubbing it in? It's a higher percentage play at that point. The Titans did man up and stop them once.
What's not rubbing it in at that point?

If the choice is between going for it on 4th &6 and kicking a field goal, you tell me. 3 points from a field goal aren't the same as 7 from a TD+PAT.

Now, please answer me this: how is going for it on 4th & 6, in the red zone, when you could just kick a field goal as any normal team would not rubbing it in? How is that anything other than an arrogant move, going "Yeah, we're so much better than you, we'll get those 6 yards. And even if we don't, who cares, you suck too much to do anything relevant?"

Now don't go on another binge of straw man arguments and irrelevant points, but just answer that question, okay?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

So the only thing relevant is the score?

-They did not score in the 4th quarter.
-Brady was out by the end of the 3rd.
-They were playing their last string RB, rookies all over the place. As many as you can have in that make a 43 man dressed roster.
-40+yo Junior fucking Seau (human speedbump) just flew in off the beach from surfing in SD
and you think they were pouring it on?

Should they've played only 10 scrubs, would that be classier?

And yet, yet, yet again with the irrelevant points.

Everything leading up to it is 100% relevant.

It's all relevant, you don't just get to 52 or 59-0 by accident.
One group of well compensated athletes got their asses kicked up and down the field by a another group with different colored laundry.

Where does all this maudlin soap opera bullshit come in? I didn't hear a peep from the Titans, did you? It's manufactured by people not involved.

Are you having trouble reading?
Once the Pats are up 45-0,

Now it's 45. 45 is your sacred Classiness Threshold? What goes into arriving at that, or whatever number you deem appropriate?

How is kicking a field goal within the 25 yard line not rubbing it in? It's a higher percentage play at that point. The Titans did man up and stop them once.
What's not rubbing it in at that point?

If the choice is between going for it on 4th &6 and kicking a field goal, you tell me. 3 points from a field goal aren't the same as 7 from a TD+PAT.

The kick is the higher percentage play. That's rubbing it in, running a play they have only a slim chance of defending against for cheap points.

You keep ignoring the fact that Tenn, when given the opportunity to man up, actually stopped them in a goalline stand, turning it over on downs. Depriving them of what could have been3 easy, garbage, rub your nose in it FG points that you would've taken. I'd call that an unclassy, dick move wouldn't you?

Your argument falls flat on it's face right there. And that's all you has to cling to.
Your supposed "classy" move would've put more points on the board than giving them the opportunity to man up on 4th down - which they actually did!



You go tell Keith Bullock he's inferior, I'll stand right by behind you.
Go tell Kyle Vanden Bosch he's inferior.

"Yeah, we're so much better than you, we'll get those 6 yards. And even if we don't, who cares, you suck too much to do anything relevant?"

That's what the point of playing football is.

Belichik goes for it on 4th religiously, and the Pats have looked like shit in the red-zone all year. This isn't the preseason, they need real experience as a unit, their offensive chemistry sucks, especially in the red zone.
This isn't about embarrassing the Titans, it's about a strategic analysis of who is capable of what on the offense.
How does holding back to not ruffle your opponent's feathers help improve a team that was looking really inept on offense? That's good coaching.

This is also the team that lost their All-Pro QB for the season last year and had to plug in a HS QB. It would be astute coaching to get your backup some time in the red zone to evaluate him, test him, get him reps would it not? You're going to tell the untested, backup you're paying that he should let up when you want to see how capable he is? Give Belichik a little more credit. The guy knows how to coach damn well

Fuck the Titans, get off the field if you can't stop rookies.

 

[Sander]

Now it's 45. 45 is your sacred Classiness Threshold? What goes into arriving at that, or whatever number you deem appropriate?

I get that you're American and hence your education might be inferior, but could you please pretend to have some basic reading skills here? I'm referring to what the situation was in the game. Again: this is not a general rule, it is an *example*. Can you grasp that difference? No?
Then get the fuck back to school.

Really, Cimmie, al you've done in this thread is deflect the point and try to attack me on arguments I never made. It's annoying, so cut it out please.

You keep ignoring the fact that Tenn, when given the opportunity to man up, actually stopped them in a goalline stand, turning it over on downs. Depriving them of what could have been3 easy, garbage, rub your nose in it FG points that you would've taken. I'd call that an unclassy, dick move wouldn't you?

No, I most definitely wouldn't, as you should've understood by now because I've said that multiple times.

Your argument the entire time has been about treating your opponent as a peer. As an equal opponent. You are doing that when you go "Well, it's 4th&6, the high percentage, normal play here is a field goal." That is treating them like a peer.

Your argument falls flat on it's face right there. And that's all you has to cling to.
Your supposed "classy" move would've put more points on the board than giving them the opportunity to man up on 4th down - which they actually did!

My argument was never about the amount of points on the board.

Also, the actual result of those plays is irrelevant to my point. The plays themselves are classless and disrespectful.

"Yeah, we're so much better than you, we'll get those 6 yards. And even if we don't, who cares, you suck too much to do anything relevant?"

That's what the point of playing football is.

Thank you for acknowledging that Bill Bellichick is a classless asshole, right there. Can we move on now?

 

[Brother None]

Brady's rusty as all hell. He needs the reps at game speed.

Ehhhhh...not sure I agree here Cimms. Brady has been rusty, but he's got his reps in already so far this season, and I agree with Sander that these reps were essentially the equivalent of practice reps.

It's like Belichick keeping him in long, long times in the 2k7 season as well. Let's face it, Bill likes to gamble with injuries. He's been remarkably lucky with it too, but it is a risk, and not one that's really worth it.

Also, it's funny to see how 2K7 this thread is. We've all already gone through this, it's just a surprise to Sander to see the Pats act as they did all season back then.

I do love pieces like this, essentially tying Pats scorelines to how upset Bill Belichick is. I know coaches can motivate teams well on stupid remarks made by the other team's FO/ownership, the 1940 Bears-Redskins blowout is a famous example, but to make it seem that Bill wilfully picks out matchups in which to embarrass opposing teams is a bit...eh...stupid?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Now it's 45. 45 is your sacred Classiness Threshold? What goes into arriving at that, or whatever number you deem appropriate?

I get that you're American and hence your education might be inferior, but could you please pretend to have some basic reading skills here?

Ah yes, Sander, the arbiter of all that is classy huh? I know you're fucking around, but I'll play along.

I'm referring to what the situation was in the game.

Actually, you were ignoring the multitude of circumstances that I mentioned surrounding the little snapshot you're zeroing in on. You've either got your head in the sand, or your tunnel vision prevents you from seeing the situation in it's totality.

Looking at the situation out of the context of the game surrounding it is pointless.

Again: this is not a general rule, it is an *example*. Can you grasp that difference? No?
Then get the fuck back to school.

I'm pretty sure I asked for your Magical Point Spread of Classiness and how you arrive at that number and am still waiting for an answer.

You're flip-flopping all over the place man, wtf?

You act like they were piling it on.
The starters were out, by the 3rd.
They 4th string HB was taking carries - and still getting 10 yards a carry. The Titans need to be fucking embarassed for collecting paychecks for such a horrid performance.

You act as if the Titans aren't complicit in the blowout. They have coaches, they have a front office, they watched film and practiced all week.
They just don't give a fuck. They quit. They gave up. They laid down. As if the Titans have no culpability for what just happended? They need to be ashamed.

Fisher should be embarrassed for failing to prepare his team properly. 59-0. The Titans couldn't beat a college team.


Awww it's snowing.
Aww we don't want to play.
Aww mean old nasty Belichik is running up the score
waaaaaaaaaa.

The Pats have failed to show up offensively in the second half all year. They've sucked in the Red Zone. Getting reps down there is important. Have you not been paying attention?

How is testing your rookie, backup QBs mettle disrespectful?
It's astute coaching.

This isn't about Week 6 Vs. the Titans, this about way further down the line, my friend.

This is not about emkbarassing the Titans, it's about developing the Patriots for Week 15, 16, 17 and the playoffs.

Get over the Titans, they are speedbumps that have no self-respect to let rookies trounce them like that.

Your argument the entire time has been about treating your opponent as a peer. As an equal opponent. You are doing that when you go "Well, it's 4th&6, the high percentage, normal play here is a field goal." That is treating them like a peer.

Kicking a FG within the 15 yard line when up by 50+ is not respectful at all. You're not even giving them a chance to stop you. It's teasing them. It's worse than giving them a legit shot to man up and compete.

My argument was never about the amount of points on the board.

Yeah that's completely irrelevant to a discussion about...the number of points on the board.

Also, the actual result of those plays is irrelevant to my point. The plays themselves are classless and disrespectful.

How are X's and O's disrespectful?
Clearly you don't respect the Titans, and expect them to be coddled like little girls.
Where does all this emo angst come from? I still have heard nothing from the Titans.
Why are your sensibilities offended on their behalf?

"Yeah, we're so much better than you, we'll get those 6 yards. And even if we don't, who cares, you suck too much to do anything relevant?"

That's what the point of playing football is.

Thank you for acknowledging that Bill Bellichick is a classless asshole, right there. Can we move on now?

You're exactly the kind of clueless, squirrelly punk I'd love to meet on opposite sides of the A gap some day. I'd make you eat your own cleats and you'd wonder why.

Mercy has no place in football (except when it comes to long-term injuries).
A football game is 60 minutes.
From start to finish.
Not every game is going to be decided in the first 5 like yesterday's. Only a stupid coach would hold back and not test his rookies in different, important game situations.
They need to practice a full game, from start to finish.

The Colts aren't going to lay down for the Pats.
The Ravens won't.
The Jets sure won't.
The Dolphins won't.
The Chargers won't.

The Pats need to play a full 60 minute game balls-to-the-wall so they are ready for situations like that.
Bailing out on their development like that just because the Titans have no heart would be retarded.

 

[Sander]

Actually, you were ignoring the multitude of circumstances that I mentioned surrounding the little snapshot you're zeroing in on. You've either got your head in the sand, or your tunnel vision prevents you from seeing the situation in it's totality.

Looking at the situation out of the context of the game surrounding it is pointless.

I'm not looking at it out of context, at all. The context is this: you are up 52-0, you're up against a defense that looks as incompetent as can get, you are now 4th&6, in the red zone, in easy field goal range.
That's the situation I'm talking about here.

I'm pretty sure I asked for your Magical Point Spread of Classiness and how you arrive at that number and am still waiting for an answer.

You're flip-flopping all over the place man, wtf?

And I am very sure I've said several times now that these were examples. If you don't understand that: that means I was citing several situations out of a possible multitude of different situations. In other words: there is no magical point spread, it is situational.

Now stop harping about the magical point spread to try to turn the attention away from what I am talking about:
Going for it on 4th & 6, in the red zone, in field goal range, when up by an unbeatable margin, twice.

You act like they were piling it on.
The starters were out, by the 3rd.
They 4th string HB was taking carries - and still getting 10 yards a carry. The Titans need to be fucking embarassed for collecting paychecks for such a horrid performance.

You act as if the Titans aren't complicit in the blowout. They have coaches, they have a front office, they watched film and practiced all week.
They just don't give a fuck. They quit. They gave up. They laid down. As if the Titans have no culpability for what just happended? They need to be ashamed.

Fisher should be embarrassed for failing to prepare his team properly. 59-0. The Titans couldn't beat a college team.


Awww it's snowing.
Aww we don't want to play.
Aww mean old nasty Belichik is running up the score
waaaaaaaaaa.

And yet again you are bringing in shit I never commented on.

Stick to the fucking point:
Going for it on 4th & 6, in the red zone, in field goal range, when up by an unbeatable margin, twice.

The Pats have failed to show up offensively in the second half all year. They've sucked in the Red Zone. Getting reps down there is important. Have you not been paying attention?

See, now this might be relevant, although the fact that they're effectively up against a college-level defense at that point makes the practice relevance doubtful at best. Add to that that your next opponents are the Bucs, and then a bye-week, and it gets even more doubtful.

But this point is flatly contradicted by *your very next sentence*:

How is testing your rookie, backup QBs mettle disrespectful?
It's astute coaching.

Rookie QB. Your team is lacking reps in the red zone (which is doubtful as well given that it's week 6 and Brady and his starting team played all previous games till the end), fine. So how does giving your basically second team reps in the red zone fix that?

So your point is two-fold:
- Brady and his team need more reps in the red zone
- Rookies need practice
Brady wasn't on the field, and this wasn't exactly a great tough work-out for your rookies either.

Kicking a FG within the 15 yard line when up by 50+ is not respectful at all. You're not even giving them a chance to stop you. It's teasing them. It's worse than giving them a legit shot to man up and compete.

Are you kidding me? "Giving them a chance"? You've given them chances on 8 scoring drives already.

Yeah that's completely irrelevant to a discussion about...the number of points on the board.

It started by you responding to me. I wasn't talking about running up the score. At all. I was talking about the disrespectfulness of two plays the Pats ran.
Two plays. Not the fucking resulting score. *You* are the one trying to make it about the score. And fuck me, your 'discussion' style is annoying as shit and fucking stupid, because it doesn't even come close to addressing the point.

How are X's and O's disrespectful?
Clearly you don't respect the Titans, and expect them to be coddled like little girls.
Where does all this emo angst come from? I still have heard nothing from the Titans.
Why are your sensibilities offended on their behalf?

Let me state this again:
When you go for it on 4th&6, when you could just kick a field goal and your lead is unassailable, you are being disrespectful. You are taunting the opponent, you're going "Yeah, you're never going to stop me anyway, and even if you do, you're too incompetent to do anything about it. Losers."
Is that a consequence of the Titans sucking ass during that game? Yes. But that doesn't mean you can't be slightly graceful about winning.
No one likes a bad loser, but no one likes a bad winner either.

You're exactly the kind of clueless, squirrelly punk I'd love to meet on opposite sides of the A gap some day. I'd make you eat your own cleats and you'd wonder why.

Oooh goodie, now you're relying on your athletic ability to try to show your superiority in a debate.
What the fuck?

Also, no I wouldn't be wondering why, I have no condition, am completely out of shape and have no experience playing American Football. It'd be pretty damned clear I'd get beaten by almost anyone if I were to line up at the line of scrimmage of a football game. That, however, is not the fucking point at hand here.

Mercy has no place in football (except when it comes to long-term injuries).
A football game is 60 minutes.
From start to finish.
Not every game is going to be decided in the first 5 like yesterday's. Only a stupid coach would hold back and not test his rookies in different, important game situations.
They need to practice a full game, from start to finish.
[..]
The Pats need to play a full 60 minute game balls-to-the-wall so they are ready for situations like that.
Bailing out on their development like that just because the Titans have no heart would be retarded.

Holy shit do you have any idea how much you're contradicting yourself?
Rookies in important game situations? There was nothing important about the situations those rookies found themselves in. Full 60-minute balls-to-the-wall action? Did you even watch the game? Aside from neither the starters nor the rookies getting those full 60-minutes of practice, that game was nowhere near balls-to-the-wall. It was more a leisurely stroll in the snowy park.

The Colts aren't going to lay down for the Pats.
The Ravens won't.
The Jets sure won't.
The Dolphins won't.
The Chargers won't.

Wait, what? Did you even watch any of the numerous blowouts this season? I've seen a shitton, a shitton, of running down the clock, and none of this going for it on 4th&6. None.
Want proof? Here's the play by play of the final drive for the Seahawks pummeling of the Jaguars last week (note that they started to just run out the game at 11:53 left):

1st-10, SEA26 11:53 E. James rushed to the right for 10 yard gain
1st-10, SEA36 11:12 SEA committed 10 yard penalty
1st-20, SEA26 10:45 E. James rushed to the left for 4 yard gain
2nd-16, SEA30 10:00 E. James rushed to the left for 5 yard loss. E. James fumbled. E. James recovered fumble
4th-21, SEA24 9:15 E. James rushed to the right for 5 yard gain. JAC committed 15 yard penalty
1st-10, SEA45 8:45 E. James rushed up the middle for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, 50 7:59 E. James rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
3rd-1, JAC46 7:15 E. James rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
1st-10, JAC42 6:33 E. James rushed to the left for 2 yard loss
2nd-12, JAC44 5:46 J. Forsett rushed to the right for 7 yard gain. J. Forsett fumbled. B. Obomanu recovered fumble
3rd-5, JAC33 4:57 J. Forsett rushed to the right for no gain
4th-1, JAC33 4:17 E. James rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
1st-10, JAC31 3:32 E. James rushed to the left for 9 yard gain
2nd-1, JAC22 2:49 E. James rushed to the right for 3 yard gain
1st-10, JAC19 2:00 S. Wallace rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss
2nd-11, JAC20 1:18 S. Wallace rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss
3rd-12, JAC21 0:38 S. Wallace rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss

Or what about the Colts, last week, up 28-9 in Tennessee, 4th&5 on the Titans' 5 yard line with just 7 minutes left to play? Did they go for it? Nope, kicked a field goal.

No, I'm fairly sure the Pats would be one of the few teams to do this.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

You're looking at this like checkers, when Belichik is playing chess, he's moves upon moves ahead of us all.

It comes down to this:
You kick the FG (has Gostkowsky ever missed that close?) that's a fucking lock, easy 3.
Or you go for it on 4th and 6. Giving a 4th string RB the ball at a much lower rate of success - giving your opponent a better chance at defending.

One is a patronizing pretense to slap even more points on the board, rubbing salt in the wounds even more.
The other assumes that you treat your opponent like a man.

That FG is a tease, they'd never stop it, it's like dangling candy right out of reach of a baby and then snatching it away and eating it in their face.

If you can't stop Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis on 4th and 6 you have nobody to blame but yourself.
You keep shifting blame off the Titans, they had an active role in deciding weather or not they could convert on 4th.
You can't absolve them of all culpability.

How about not turning the ball over more than 5 times.
How about completing more than 2 passes all game.
-7 Passing yards all game???
And you're pointing your accusing finger at the Patriots?



How the do you relate to, sympathise with, stick up for quitters like the Titans?
They gave up.
0-5? It's cold, I don't want to play today. I just want to collect my paycheck and go back to my warm bed. I have an early tee time tomorrow, fuck playing football.
Who's disrespecting the game here?
You got it all backwards my friend.

Something is fishy in Denmark my friend, and it's not the Patriots.

there is no magical point spread, it is situational.

So you mean you make it up as you go along. Your pretty boys who post gaudy numbers are all good. But the Patriots, the team who everyone buried, the defense that lost too many vets, the QB that would never return to form - they're the bad guys huh?
You love to hate the Patriots, your bias is transparent.
It's cool, you'll have more to hate in next weeks blowout. And this team is building something. The Titans are nothing, they are a stepping stone, a learning opportunity.

Oooh goodie, now you're relying on your athletic ability to try to show your superiority in a debate.
What the fuck?

Also, no I wouldn't be wondering why, I have no condition, am completely out of shape and have no experience playing American Football. It'd be pretty damned clear I'd get beaten by almost anyone if I were to line up at the line of scrimmage of a football game. That, however, is not the fucking point at hand here.

I'm not in playing shape either, but that's besides the point.

I'm talking about your mentality about the game.
I like you Sander, and I think it's cool that you're into football and I'd like to impart some insight to you.

Football is not a gentleman's game. It never was, it's not supposed to be. It's a ruthless, dirty, cutthroat dogfight. It's war.
If you want a mercy rule, go watch pee-wee football.

I played MiLB, people play LB & D-Line because they can legally carry out mayhem that would otherwise be illegal. I hate offensive golden boys, and I live to rain on their parade. I've been on the otherside of blowouts like that (you'd be appalled if you looked at HS and college scores, their blowouts dwarf the NFL.). You play 60 minutes. You don't rely on anyone for pity or mercy. You prosecute your own personal war until the final whistle. I don't care of the score is 59-0 if you come through my gap you're going to pay the fucking price.

Watch Hines Ward in these two. He's away from the action, he doesn't contribute anything in terms of points are yards. This is completely unnecessary.
Do you think he's just being a mean dick?
When you can understand why Hines Ward does these things, why he smiles bigger after that than any TD grab (well except for the SB), then you understand the mentality of a football player.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QGKlluCU0o[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPbraVljIrc[/youtube]
You don't ever sleep on that motherfucker.
You don't pussy foot around Hines Ward.
You don't play half speed and let up on him.
Ever. On anybody.
Or you get what's coming to you.
And that's the kind of shit a MiLB dreams about, believe me.


And if you outmatch me, well I'd rather lose on my feet like a man, than be granted pity while because I curled up in a ball in the fetal position.

Belichik is a Terminator. He spends every ounce of energy towards winning as many football games as possible.
Class is not part of the equation.
He's a Terminator. He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

That's who I want coaching my team in the playoffs.

Or what about the Colts, last week, up 28-9 in Tennessee, 4th&5 on the Titans' 5 yard line with just 7 minutes left to play? Did they go for it? Nope, kicked a field goal.

The Colts tacked 3 chintzy, garbage points. How magnanimous of them, they really were looking out for the Titans.

 

[victor]

What's with all the fucking Dutch people liking American football? Is it big over there, and if so, why? Seems about as relevant as me being a cricket fan.

 

[Sander]

Look, Cimmie, you are yet again completely blowing past my points. This isn't about the Titans or sympathizing with them. This isn't about the mentality of the players either - I get that those guys are out there to play the best game of football they can and that this is war, the relentless attitude is part of what makes football awesome. This isn't about making the Titans look better or about sparing their defense.

This is about the Pats and Bellichik not going out there and being content with winning with a huge margin, which is humiliating for the opposition. It's about them going out of their way to humiliate the opposition, doing everything they can to make sure the opposition looks as badly as humanly possible. It's not about winning, it's about humiliation, and that's neither fun to watch (unless you're a Pats fan), good TV, good sportsmanship or in fact anything good.

As for the idea that going for a field goal there is worse - I strongly disagree. A field goal more or less won't make your opponent look that much worse, and the one extra play you're giving people to defend when you're going for it isn't going to mean much either when they stop you, they haven't been able to stop you all day long anyway. So the difference between a failed conversion and scoring a field goal isn't that big in terms of the humiliation. But the difference between scoring a field goal, or succesfully going for it on 4th&6 *is* huge.

Fine, I get you don't care, you're a total homer and you love it when your team wins. Just realise that no one, absolutely no one, outside the Pats fanbase likes this shit, and that isn't because they don't like the Pats anyway.

So you mean you make it up as you go along. Your pretty boys who post gaudy numbers are all good. But the Patriots, the team who everyone buried, the defense that lost too many vets, the QB that would never return to form - they're the bad guys huh?
You love to hate the Patriots, your bias is transparent.

Don't be retarded. Not everything can be delineated so factually and this is a typical situation. The cut-off point is whenever your lead is definitely unassailable, and that changes per game as it depends on the competence of your opponent and other situations. When you have no chance of losing. The Pats easily passed that point on sunday.

What's with all the fucking Dutch people liking American football? Is it big over there, and if so, why? Seems about as relevant as me being a cricket fan.

Watching the Super Bowl 2 years ago got me into the game, probably the most exciting sport event I've ever watched.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

The Titan's embarrassment is an unintentional byproduct. It's collateral damage. BB has bigger fish to fry. What you're positing is very, very, very low on a coach's list of priorities.

He may be a petty prick, but he didn't set out to embarrass them. His agenda is far beyond that. Although, they've had bad blood before Fisher broke the fraternal coache's bond, and Reese jumped ship to the Pats. The Titans have always been a chippy, chippy team, and have made none too many friends. They ended Rodney Harrison's season one year with a kneecapper. What goes around comes around.

BTW. Have you ever seen Belichik talk shit about anyone? Ever? Have you ever seen him say a negative word about any team or player (He only slags his own team's shortcomings, he even did it after yesterday's game)? Have you ever seen him say anything less than positive stuff about his opponent? Does he taunt anyone? Is he demonstrative on the sidelines? He's not half the douchebag the media portray him as compared to a lot of other bush league coaches in the league.

 

[Brother None]

Yeah, I really dislike the Titans.

When you can understand why Hines Ward does these things, why he smiles bigger after that than any TD grab (well except for the SB), then you understand the mentality of a football player.

Football players like Hines Ward or Rodney Harrison, yeah. Last time I checked, they're far from the only players on the field.

Don't get me wrong, Cimm, I love smashmouth football and enjoy gridiron exactly because it's doesn't pussy-foot, but it's as much a skill game as a physical game, and we've seen enough finesse teams in the Superbowl over the years, especially recently ("raaah raaah Colts begging for rulechanges raah" - Cimm), to attest to that.

So I agree it's an element of the game, and it's nice of you to give Sander the Mike perspective, but you're painting a pretty one-sided picture of the game for him to pick up on.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

The mentality is football culture though, throughout.
You don't show weakness (why'd you think there out there in the snow with short sleeved shirts on?) You never ask for mercy. And you should be insulted if anyone ever takes pity and lets up on you. That's when you need to walk off the field, because you are no longer a football player
I know I would be insulted if someone let up on me. What does that say about me as a man? Again, I'd rather get pulverized like a man then be spared embarasssment. I've got an assignment and I'm going to carry it out, and when that's done I help out the dude next to me. What does the score have to do with performing your duty?

Why didn't the Nipponese give up on Okinawa? Why did they keep fighting?
Culture and respect from your peers is everything.

Hines Ward isn't a skill player? He leads the league in receiving yardage.

Yeah I played MLB in my day, so I have a different persepctive but most of what happens to decide the outcome of a game happens in the box. You don't read about it the next day, but those guys know who wants to keep playing and who would rather go home.

I love football, and I think it's great that you guys do to.
But put yourself in a nose-tackle's world and you will see football.
See the beauty of a guard slamming some unsuspecting greedy DT on a trap play.
Watch a draw play sucker a bunch of overeager D-linemen.
Watch a WR lay out a SS on a crackback.
That's football regardless of score or yardage.

 

[Brother None]

That's football regardless of score or yardage.

See? There's where you're wrong in a nutshell. Football isn't just yards and score, nor can football be defined without yards and score. And it's the latter that you're trying to do.

Sure, fantasy and pundits put too much emphasis on skill players putting up huge numbers. But like I said before, while someone who just started watching like Sander won't see what's beneath there, you can't keep following this sport as an intelligent person and not figure out the battle of the trenches sooner or later.

And that gives you a nice, whole picture. Unlike your picture, which is just some guys kicking the shit out of one another without anyone scoring. Sounds more like MMA than football to me. People still gotta score TDs, dude, your reaction to people's over-emphasis on skill/finesse play has skewed your view to the opposite. And neither side is right.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Where did I say skill and toughness are mutually exclusive? I'm pretty sure I cited Hines Ward as an example of someone who excels in both arenas. Who says finesse players aren't tough? They're in the NFL, their all tough. The routine hits they take play after play - you and I would not get up from those. We couldn't survive a college game, you and I. Even so-called primadonnas like TO or whoever, they are touch mofos.

If you want to watch 11 Lynn Swans flitting through the air like ballet dancers maybe you should try Ultimate Frisbee.

 

[TheGM]

This is not College Football. There is no Running up the score in the NFL.