I hear Jack Sparrow never had such problems. It's one of those problems that is not really a problem with GOG having well I mean do i have to go anywhere with this?
I just see reason here. GOG is easy to get. Planescape is under a gigabyte iirc...I can shit that out onto a thumbdrive in five minutes. If a game is impossible to get due to being unavailable in stores...
That's slimy.
Best buy the original PS:T before it's gone, just in case the remaster is garbage.
(And perhaps to get offered a discount as an owner of the original.)
**I've got three retail copies myself; two are the four CD set; one is from GoG.
I just see reason here. GOG is easy to get. Planescape is under a gigabyte iirc...I can shit that out onto a thumbdrive in five minutes. If a game is impossible to get due to being unavailable in stores...
Yes, and that is exactly what Beamdog is doing, they make their EE and then remove the originals from the stores. That makes me really annoyed.
I am so glad GOG.com keeps the old games in your account even after they get removed by whoever owns the rights. I am safe, but others will not be in the future.
It is really exploiting the game fans just for money, why not keeping both versions (EE and Original)? Let people decide which one they want.
I always saw Beamdog as a creative bankrupt studio, they grab popular games with a fan cult and they "modernize" the games and add stupid stuff and remove other stuff (most of what they do to the games can easily be made by the user using free mods anyway) and then sell it while preventing people from being able to easily buy the original versions, in my book there are a few words for that, scumbags, greedy, exploiters, etc. And that is why I never gave any money to Beamdog and never bought any EE games (I still have the originals if I want to play).
Don't get me wrong. Beamdog sucks. But this ultimately will get people to play the game that did not. Sure, removing the game is an asshole thing to do, but I do asshole things too like download stuff at will when people are pricks.
Don't need it. I have the GOG version, mods and fixes are available online, and most importantly, I got to play the whole thing without any unnecessary additions (save for a few quests modded in which I consented to installing).
When it comes to them taking down the original games - As people here already mentioned before, the original games weren’t removed from sale, merely bundled with the EEs. It may be the case here as well.
The only value of this EE on a bigger scale than options and UI mod is still a very major one though, it's actually coming to iOS and Android. This is already fine by me, whatever thoughts Codex has right now. Not another cookie clicker is always good news.
Is Torment really a worthy game even for now?
The first part of the game, Hive is actually good, but later part of the game feels like unfinished or rushed.
At the Kurst, I was surprise to see NPCs say like this " I have the first clue to find A so you have to do my job", "B has the second clue for A". is this epic writing? after the Kurst is just repeating combat and reading just like JRPG.
The final stage is just joking. I gather companions for my journey, final stage and boss, but the game separate me and companions when I really need them. What is the point for gathering companions? just for exp?
While combat is bad, the game forces combat too much.
and enemies are just mindless zombies with more health, stat, level, etc..
I don't want to blame PS: T with combat itself, it's bad, but combat isn't that important for an RPG.
but I have to say that the design of the enemies and combat encounters are bad.
and
What changes the man's nature? should I be changed? I didn't change at all.
The Good incarnation says it was regret, The Practical Incarnation seems like his selfishness changed him and The Paranoid Incarnation was changed by fear. but what about The Nameless one, the player, me?
I didn't change at all. The nameless one is already changed by interruption of player. the game is not about what changes the man's nature. the game is about what should I do after I changed myself.
well, actually, I enjoyed the PS: T.
but I can't think that PS: T is the best RPG ever or something.
It's rushed, unfinished game with the worst engine for RPG.
It's at least far much better than BG1 which is one of the worst rpg for me.
I like it's dialogs which are interesting, good writings, better quest than BG1 and interesting setting, but I think it's not the best RPG nor worthy RPG to be a masterpiece.
I mean there's nothing to learn from PS:T.
nothing new in PS:T. and there is no good RPG element is this game.
dungeon? Modron puzzle is bad, final stage sucks and other place isn't that great.
dialog? writing is good but what I want is game, not novel.
quest? It's not bad but that's not best nor model for RPG.
Would you elaborate a bit on the reasoning behind some of these opinions?
I think it's a strong candidate for the best; a better RPG than Fallout IMO, though not the better game.
I cannot fathom issue with the Infinity engine —as far as suitability for RPGs is concerned.
And the Modron 'puzzle' was a deliberate parody of cheesy D&D maps... The way a machine might evaluate and try to produce one.
*Not unlike the way a software machine once tried to evaluate, and create Christmas Music according to a generated formula.
I've played a few of those; including one that had 10'x10' room after room, with a zombie and a kobold in each.
Text & interactivity-wise I thought it impressive, and enjoyed it fully; I am at a loss as to how the quest could be viewed as anything but the apotheosis of Roleplaying.
1. Linear quest line
The best part of PS: T is finding Pharod, which has various information to find him.
after that, the game strictly directs where to go and whom to talk.
2. Infinity engine
There isn't much interaction with infinity engine: combat and dialogue.
From what I see, the engine is not for an RPG but RTS. I'm not saying that real time combat is not for an RPG, but real time D&D rule is strange as hell.
I played Knight of the chalice which have great D&D rule combat and after that, I really can understand what D&D should be an RTS.
3. construction of game.
In Fallout, you are free to find everything.
and that freedom means a lot.
there are a lot of ways to achieve goals in Fallout while in Torment, there aren't much way to achieve the goal.
4. side quests.
Since there isn't much interaction in games, quests are end up with doing combat or reading dialog.
and what you can do is doing simply delivery, fighting and talking. and even the talking isn't that complicated.
Finding good answer is too easy. why should I choose evil when good gives you more story and exp?
There aren't much choice either.
5. attribute.
Fallout also have the same problem, but PS: T did worse than that.
In Fallout, starting attribute determines the whole game play.
and in PS: T, only intelligence and wisdom determines the whole game play.
without increasing those two attribute, there isn't much choice: combat.
6. nothing new
Many masterpiece RPGs have it's own good element.
For games like Fallout and Wasteland, using skill to solving problem is still great element.
Games like Arx Fatalis have good interactions and using them to solving problem is still fresh element for RPG.
In Arcanum, dialog is really good. you can distract assassins if you done good job on hiding yourself, can be polite to noble to earn thier trust or being rude or arrogant to earn credit from thugs, etc..
but In Torment, there aren't many things to learn.
even dialogs are, eh.. actually, it's good, and I like it.
but as a game, it's plain. dialog options are not that great.
finding the best solution is too easy.
7. having too many text doesn't mean it's good.
Text adventure game which I am playing now, Zork doesn't have that much dialog but still it's a great game. reading text and finding clue and answer is also a part of game.
but in Torment, most of dialogs are just story.
reading story isn't that bad, but it's nothing new nor innovative.
actually, that's what JRPG for.
and for Modron puzzle, I saw better dungeon than that in JRPG.
In Tales of Phantasia there's a maze which have some kind of time limit on it.
There are lots of valuable items in there so it's fund to explore there.
but in Modron puzzle, same enemy and same room it's just boring.
and from what I heard, classic D&D dungeon isn't that bad.
both Zork and Wizardry are came from D&D.
@woo1108 I would like to add something else to your list, namely alignment. In P:T you pretty much need to be lawful good to get the most rewards, followed by chotic evil (if i'm not mistaken). So a lawful good, intelligent and wise character is the best (get the best rewards, and get to use the best items). Neutral characters doesn't get anything.
However i think it's unfair to compare P:T to Fallout, since they are fundamentally different. The problem with P:T is that they didn't implement skills, like in the 2ed, and therefore had to completely depend on stats. Sure they could have added more opportunities to use intimidation (strength), and used Dexterity as a perception check in dialogues (detecting if a person is trying to bluff you), but they didn't, making Int and Wis a choose-or-lose stat. Still i think you're too harsh, and focus to much on it's flaws, instead of seeing it for what it is, a storybased, dialogue heavy, combat adventure game with stats.
