Pro life or Pro choice

Pro-choice.

But...

Only up to a certain time period. Once the fetus is too developed then you're stuck with the... Thing.

And I couldn't care less for the reasons they're getting an abortion. Incest? Fine. Mistake during party? Fine. Bored? Fine.
I don't give a shit, let's scoop it out before it becomes a human being. We got enough of those on this planet and we don't need another one.
 
Yeah, pro-choice, definitely. If you don't want children, you shouldn't be forced to have them even if you made a mistake.

I'm European, though. Here the whole pro-life / pro-choice thing isn't as relevant as it is in the US.
 
I don't personally view fetuses as humans. They're more like parasites, imo, Feeding off it's host while giving nothing in return, like a tape worm. I believe if a person doesn't want to deal with that Then they shouldn't have to.
 
I wouldn't go as far as to call them parasites. Seems like a bit of a try-hard misanthrope thing to say.

What's with all the "political" debates on NMA by the way? Seems like a weird place to discuss politics, but maybe that's just me. Also, not a big fan of flame wars, which is why I usually stay out of it.
 
dopezilla said:
I wouldn't go as far as to call them parasites. Seems like a bit of a try-hard misanthrope thing to say.

What's with all the "political" debates on NMA by the way? Seems like a weird place to discuss politics, but maybe that's just me. Also, not a big fan of flame wars, which is why I usually stay out of it.
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I start most of it. I dont particularly have many convictions so I just start threads and watch shit go down. Its fun.
 
Always found strange that this debate even exists, considering that it is often carried by religious groups... And the church settled the debate more than 1500 years ago, officially stating that the soul comes from the animation. As long as the fetus isn't animated, it doesn't have a soul, and it's not murder. That's the official position of the catholic church, and from the POV of a catholic, the church is the body of God on earth, whose word is said to be absolute (Main reason for the schism with the orthodox, by the way.). A religious group who thinks otherwise, while stating that they are christians, actually disobey an official statement from the ambassador of their God. Or they don't know it, which makes them completely ignorant about their own laws, and as such, should make their argument invalid. There's an excuse for stupidity, but there's no excuse for ignorance.
As for the legal aspect too, settled as well. It's legal to abort in most civilized countries around the globe.

So, both the spiritual and the social laws agree that it's okay to make an abortion (as long as it's not animated, but you have quite a long time to decide before it is). Which makes the debate actually... strange, in my mind. Don't know why the pope doesn't explain that to his followers. Don't know what's the position for the lutherians, protestants, jewish and mormons but the catholic debate is settled since 1500 years.
 
mithrap said:
Always found strange that this debate even exists, considering that it is often carried by religious groups... And the church settled the debate more than 1500 years ago, officially stating that the soul comes from the animation.
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What the Church says isn't always gospel truth (if you'll excuse my pun).
 
R.Graves said:
But isn't it a parasite? It basically fits the definition of a parasitic relationship correct me of I'm wrong.
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No, a parasite gives nothing in return while a fetus is the continuation of your genes and species. Would you describe fruit bearing trees as being covered in parasites?
Doomsdayprepper said:
What the Church says isn't always gospel truth (if you'll excuse my pun).
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In catholicism it is, what the Pope says is God's word according to them.
 
Doomsdayprepper said:
Don't other religions allow people to make their own decisions? Some of the more chill ones, like Quakers?
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Yeah, there are a whole bunch of different denominations of Christianity. Some denominations follow whatever the Vatican says, some don't.
 
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Doomsdayprepper said:
Don't other religions allow people to make their own decisions? Some of the more chill ones, like Quakers?
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Sure, but these ones usually aren't the ones protesting against abortion, at least not in public. As far as I know, protestants, Mormons, jewish, muslims and orthodox are free to agree or disagree with public debates like that, but when it comes to catholics, the word of the pope is (supposed to be) their gospel truth. That's the whole point of the papal infallibility. That's precisely why a pope cannot cancel a decree made by a previous pope, for example.
Considering that most of the groups (that I've heard) protesting against abortion pretended to be christian, there's a problem. They probably don't even know that their church solved the debate 1500 years ago for them, yet ignoring it means ignoring their absolute authority.

No soul until it's animate, so, no sin in abortion until then. That's the official stance of the church on the subject. A christian is supposed to basically accept it as word of God and roll with it, wether he/she agrees with it or not. Which is why I never understand christian groups bringing the debate again in public. The debate is supposed to be settled for them, in a way that is quite okay with the modern society.
 
I'm very much Pro Choice on the matter.
I think that not being Pro Choice these days is rather insane.

I have a friend who is very much pro life as he believes it's straight up murder.
I do get there is a grey area, but it's there for a number of reasons.
A. Rape- the most important one really. A Woman shouldn't have to carry a child they didn't really want because some guy raped her. I would never know how much of a horrible experience that truly is and becoming pregnant by it just makes things worse.
B. Young Age- Another important point really, if a teen gets pregnant then that's pretty much her life coming to a standstill for 18 or so years.
If a woman gets knocked up at the age of 14 or so... they won't have the strength or willpower to handle being a mother.
C. Income- Some parents just don't have the money to be parents. But income is a topic for another time as I find the pay of some jobs to be completely disgusting.
D. Birth could lead to the Mother's Death- This one I hope isn't very common, but it's not unheard of for the Mother to die in pregnancy due to complications or maybe they are physically unable to give birth of so. My friend said in this case the Mother should put her life before the child and I don't think that's true. The Mother needs to come first before the child is even born, and I get the idea behind that way of thinking. But I believe that should only come from life. I kinda hope you get the point I'm trying to make here ><

Now of course the rebuttal would be that the parents should put the kid up for adoption, but with many children already in care without a family, putting a kid in that system is just adding to the numbers really.
 
E. Forgot to wear protection

Regarding an entire human and their entire life (the child to be) as some kind of punishment for forgetfulness is rather callous.
Pull the shit out, flush it down, and punish forgetfulness with something less damning.

I'd include even passion to this. Some people just "go with it" sometimes, all empassioned, they think "fuck it, it's super sexy this way" and once all the hormones and adrenaline is passed, they might be pregnant.
It's an easy thing to fix, because abortion is an option. Since it IS an option, one should not regard the child-to-be's entire life as a punishment to the careless parents.
 
zegh8578 said:
Regarding an entire human and their entire life (the child to be) as some kind of punishment for forgetfulness is rather callous.
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And this isn't?
zegh8578 said:
Pull the shit out, flush it down,
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Anyway I'm obviously pro-life except in cases of rape or if it'll result in the death of the mother. I don't think the potential child should be killed just because of your shitty lack of impulse control.
 
Izak said:
No, a parasite gives nothing in return while a fetus is the continuation of your genes and species. Would you describe fruit bearing trees as being covered in parasites?
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K... What does a fetus give its host in return for life? Because it can't really benefit it's parent until it's at least 5. Even then Kids don't get real helpful till they're teenagers. Then they can do laundry, dishes, clean, get a job, provide gifts, drive, and once they can drive they can run errands... A proper symbiotic relationship right? You see the difference between that and something lives inside you eating the food you ate while giving nothing in return? One is human. The other is basically a parasite.
 
R.Graves said:
K... What does a fetus give its host in return for life? Because it can't really benefit it's parent until it's at least 5. Even then Kids don't get real helpful till they're teenagers. Then they can do laundry, dishes, clean, get a job, provide gifts, drive, and once they can drive they can run errands...
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Wow. Just wow. What a ludicrous thing to say.
Just because they dont do the fucking dishes doesn't mean they're useless. They ensure humanity and civilisation survives into the future. Without them we would be nothing. Literally.
 
Doomsdayprepper said:
Wow. Just wow. What a ludicrous thing to say.
Just because they dont do the fucking dishes doesn't mean they're useless. They ensure humanity and civilisation survives into the future. Without them we would be nothing. Literally.
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I know that. Because They eventually grow up to be useful. As a fetus they are doing No one any good. I ask you again what positive thing does a fetus do for its host? I'm talking about the relationship between a fetus And Its host and children between heir parents and you're blowing it up to the point where were not even talking about the sane thing anymore.
 
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