Problems with the Video Game Industry

[CaptJ]

Everybody knows that there is something wrong with the video game industry but what is the actual problem with it? TransgenderVaultDeweller made a thread touching this but it was mostly about the "Death of a Hobby". What I am doing is closer to a post-mortem.
I would categorize the problems to three parts:

1. Complacency / Stagnation
2. Lack of Standards
3. Post-Modernism

Complacency / Stagnation

I posted this image about why AAA video game look so much alike. This was presented by someone who defended EA's business model in some stream talking about game journalism. I eventually found the website which this image originated from but now the website is gone. However, I found the YouTube video which elaborated on this image.

The video is about the Business of Design and it talks about the ins and outs of designing art assets for a video game. However, I think that the same philosophy has been applied to other aspects of video game development. At this point, the video touch upon Design Risks which really grinds my gears. Yes, the video was about the business of design and I'm not so idealistic to think that video games should only be a work of passion. However, this is killing off ideas before they even get on paper. Also, video games don't really look significantly better than before. Somehow, the video game medium prematurely ended its experimental phase in favor tried and true formulas.

There is indie development but it doesn't have the marketing or human resources to directly compete. Video games unlike books require a lot of human resources making it harder to stay true to one person's vision.

Lack of Standards
I can make a long rant about review scores but I'll sum it up to this.
Fuck. Review. Scores.
Review scores are moving targets. A 9/10 today isn't the same as it is 10 years ago. There are also those using review scores as an objective metrics of quality. This can not be stopped. People want review scores. If there is no Metacritic, another would take its place. Game criticism is too entwined with marketing. There needs to be a conversation, a back and forth, not ass kissing. What other mediums have that prevents them from endlessly strung around by the latest trends are timeless classics. People need to look at the ups and downs of these classics and learn from them instead of just copying them.

Post-Modernism

What has dwelling on what is art and forfeiting to subjectivity given any medium? The pursuit of beauty has lead to study of human anatomy, perspective, color theory, etc. What has going around saying that beauty is subjective has done? We keep asking things like "What is a video game?", "Is video game art?", or "Does video game need to be fun?" but we tend to ignore less meta questions like "What makes this game enjoyable.", "What is this game design trying to achieve?", or "What works and what doesn't work?". Also, too many people are less concern about making a good game and more concern about proving video games as artistic medium.

I just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

[MercenarySnake]

In my opinion with the way these dishonest game journalists are and how all these people are preordering the same schlock, it keeps these developers from trying to make something actually good and stable(by this I mean bugs) due to a lack of criticism. You also have season passes which people will buy, when it comes to preorders I can't understand why people do it when these digital versions of games aren't going anywhere and to wait until you hear from others about them(not journalists). You end up with games like No Mans Sky and Mafia 3.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

when it comes to preorders I can't understand why people do it when these digital versions of games aren't going anywhere and to wait until you hear from others about them(not journalists). You end up with games like No Mans Sky and Mafia 3.

I bet it's the "Pre-order now and get exclusive stuff that should be in the game from day 1 and will actually be included in a Director's Cut!" crap that causes it. Why the hell I ever pre-ordered games I'll never understand, but I actually have Fallout 4 to thank because now I wait to see what people think of games first before buying them.

Season passes are just as bad, as I saw with Saints Row 3. That was a massive rip-off, the DLC they made was shocking. I was stupid enough to buy some of them, but not dumb enough to buy a Season Pass.

 

[Millim]

A lot of the issues I can see with the gaming industry are mostly down to how much power Publishing Houses have. With bullshit like day one DLC, always online DRM and Pre Order bonuses, it's no wonder the whole thing has turned to shit.
I get it, gaming, like music and TV is a product that people buy, but like those things, it's an art form as well and so when we get this kind of bs, it just saddens me really.
People are willing to buy the same shit year after year (COD, Assassin's Creed) and will say it's not as good as the previous one, yet still buy it the next year and say the same thing.
Hype has helped kill a lot of it off, look at No Man's Sky. I wonder if it didn't have that kind of hype, would people be a bit more forgiving to it?
There's also the fact that in many ways, the cult if NMS did rush out the game after sending death threats and so forth.

It's kind of sad when the big releases of the next few years that I'm looking forward to are mostly reboots and sequels to games that are released nearly 20 years ago.
System Shock looks like it's going to be pretty decent, and given the developers, I have a lot of faith in the project.
I'm kind of optimistic about Torment and Wasteland 3, I hope both of them are good games.
I'm especially looking forward to Shenmue 3, I know it won't live up to the expectations that I made up in my head, but it feels good to get some kind of resolution on a game that was released about 3 console generations ago.

So yeah, I'm kind of sick just how cooperate the whole thing has become. I've only ever pre-ordered 4 games in my life, two of those was to get the special edition, one of those was... I actually forget why I pre-ordered Rage, was I honestly looking forward to it that much? And one of those was to go to the mid-night launch. Ironically, the mid-night launch was the best thing about Fallout 4 (I also bought the Season Pass and I know I'm never doing that again).

 

[Vergil]

Pretty much nailed it with everything you said.
So much circle jerking about "muh deep narritive le citizen kane of gayming?!?!?!" stuff and less focus on making it actually enjoyable.
Another big thing I would ad and maybe tack onto "post modernism" is people shoving their agenda into games, this is a big issue with SJWs.
For example tell me, how much praise of The Last of Us' DLC came from it being fun to play (it wasn't, half of it was rehashed gameplay/settings and the other a David Cage-tier walking simulator) but because it had two girls kiss in it?
Another one is "Gone Home" a """""""""""""""""""game"""""""""""""""" that can be beat in under a minute with zero gameplay besides walking and clicking on things was many of these supposed "gaming journalism sites" game of the year because the shocking twist! The character's sister is a lesbian!!!! Despite of course that story not even being good on it's own merit and if it were replaced with a hetero relationship the game would have no one caring about the generic love story it presented with it's boring as fuck presentation.
Video games getting placed on a pedestal for no reason other than political pandering of beliefs and more focus being put on that pandering to look "progressive".
Likewise those games that don't spout and/or conform to the strict values of these "progressives" and SJWs are hounded constantly and change demanded even by people who never even gave a fuck about that series and never will! Drastic changes being forced on a series for an audience that won't buy it and end up shafting the original audience.
This of course ties into a bigger issue that's affecting more than games but they've taken a huge fucking hit as a result all the same.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Hype has helped kill a lot of it off, look at No Man's Sky. I wonder if it didn't have that kind of hype, would people be a bit more forgiving to it?
There's also the fact that in many ways, the cult if NMS did rush out the game after sending death threats and so forth.

I doubt people would be a bit more forgiving as they still spent $60 on a bare bones pile of RNG shit at the end of the day.

Pretty much nailed it with everything you said.
So much circle jerking about "muh deep narritive le citizen kane of gayming?!?!?!" stuff and less focus on making it actually enjoyable.
Another big thing I would ad and maybe tack onto "post modernism" is people shoving their agenda into games, this is a big issue with SJWs.
For example tell me, how much praise of The Last of Us' DLC came from it being fun to play (it wasn't, half of it was rehashed gameplay/settings and the other a David Cage-tier walking simulator) but because it had two girls kiss in it?
Another one is "Gone Home" a """""""""""""""""""game"""""""""""""""" that can be beat in under a minute with zero gameplay besides walking and clicking on things was many of these supposed "gaming journalism sites" game of the year because the shocking twist! The character's sister is a lesbian!!!! Despite of course that story not even being good on it's own merit and if it were replaced with a hetero relationship the game would have no one caring about the generic love story it presented with it's boring as fuck presentation.
Video games getting placed on a pedestal for no reason other than political pandering of beliefs and more focus being put on that pandering to look "progressive".
Likewise those games that don't spout and/or conform to the strict values of these "progressives" and SJWs are hounded constantly and change demanded even by people who never even gave a fuck about that series and never will! Drastic changes being forced on a series for an audience that won't buy it and end up shafting the original audience.
This of course ties into a bigger issue that's affecting more than games but they've taken a huge fucking hit as a result all the same.

We must be inclusive! It reminds me of those SJWs that bitch at some of those video game developers when it comes to something they think is a form of "misogyny" or because they find it offensive. You also have somewhat similar situations where SJWs whine and bitch over the fact that the game doesn't have all of those silly gender options like "genderqueer". The end result is the developers doing as they say instead of ignoring them.

 

[Millim]

Another big thing I would ad and maybe tack onto "post modernism" is people shoving their agenda into games, this is a big issue with SJWs.

I don't think Post Modernism is really an issue, the issue comes down to people not writing characters, but writing "oh look at how progressive we are."

I say this as someone who plans to make a game one day that hopes to tackle all the bullshit no one else wants to do, while also having that kind of post-modern message asking how much control the player really has in an RPG.

I mean, post modernism is more of an idea rather than an actual concrete term, to give you an example, the Sims can be considered post modern while also Sons of Liberty is also considered post modern.

I don't like the term myself, as it then puts bullshit shows like Geordie Shore and The Only Way is Essex in the same category as shows like Twin Peaks and Black Mirror.

 

[Vergil]

I say this as someone who plans to make a game one day that hopes to tackle all the bullshit no one else wants to do, while also having that kind of post-modern message asking how much control the player really has in an RPG.

I'll look forward to my cameo.

 

[Millim]

I'll look forward to my cameo.

I might actually do something like that, like have members on this forum make special cameo appearances.

I doubt people would be a bit more forgiving as they still spent $60 on a bare bones pile of RNG shit at the end of the day.

I doubt if the hype was as big as it was, it wouldn't have been $60 (I hope not anyway).

We must be inclusive! It reminds me of those SJWs that bitch at some of those video game developers when it comes to something they think is a form of "misogyny" or because they find it offensive. You also have somewhat similar situations where SJWs whine and bitch over the fact that the game doesn't have all of those silly gender options like "genderqueer". The end result is the developers doing as they say instead of ignoring them.

I'm someone who considers themselves to be very left, even I'm sick of these people.
The irony is, that they are meant to be considered more open to different ideas, and yet they do nothing but blast anyone who has different ideas to them.
I've always said I would rather have more films like Birth of a Nation (that KKK film) because it means that there is some kind of challenge in the system. It means that someone else can have their own opinion, whether I find it wrong or not.

I don't agree to acts of violence (like KKK members being at voting polls to stir black people away), but I agree that they have the right to have that opinion.

 

[Walpknut]

Most game developers are too preocupied with smelling the inside of their own assholes than with actually making good games, everything is made by comitee today and meme culture has taken over everything.

 

[CaptJ]

I don't think Post Modernism is really an issue, the issue comes down to people not writing characters, but writing "oh look at how progressive we are."

I say this as someone who plans to make a game one day that hopes to tackle all the bullshit no one else wants to do, while also having that kind of post-modern message asking how much control the player really has in an RPG.

I mean, post modernism is more of an idea rather than an actual concrete term, to give you an example, the Sims can be considered post modern while also Sons of Liberty is also considered post modern.

I don't like the term myself, as it then puts bullshit shows like Geordie Shore and The Only Way is Essex in the same category as shows like Twin Peaks and Black Mirror.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/postmodern

1. 1: of, relating to, or being an era after a modern one <postmodern times> <a postmodernmetropolis>
   
   
2. 2a : of, relating to, or being any of various movements in reaction to modernism that are typically characterized by a return to traditional materials and forms (as in architecture) or by ironic self-reference and absurdity (as in literature)b : of, relating to, or being a theory that involves a radical reappraisal of modern assumptions about culture, identity, history, or language <postmodern feminism>

With its prefix post-, postmodern describes a movement that has reacted against modernism. Modernism, dating from around the start of the 20th century, represented a sharp break from 19th-century styles. But in the 1970s architects began to be dissatisfied with the stark simplicity of most modern architecture and began including in their mostly modern designs such traditional elements as columns, arches, and keystones and sometimes startling color contrasts such as might have come from advertising and pop culture. In art and literature, as in architecture, postmodernism often seems to be making fun of tradition, especially by denying that there's any real distinction between serious and popular art or writing. Wherever it has shown up, postmodernism has been greeted with a mixture of approval, disapproval, and sometimes amusement.

They consider games like Gone Home to be pushing the medium forward only because of the subject matter. Game Designers only talk about narrative, story telling and experiences. A movie is not like a video game in many ways. One of them being that movies aren't meant to be challenging to watch. Crafting experiences in video games usually amounts to removing any hindrance to it. Level scaling is added to not punish those that walk around aimless in any direction. Quest Markers are added to avoid having the player be lost. However, crafting these experiences shouldn't be the end goal of single player games. This is why I despise Bioshock 1; the game feel like it hates player agency.

While this is in the context of games like Magic the Gathering, I find this an interesting read.

 

[Millim]

I've never playef Gone Home or had any interest in it. From what I can gather it's just pretentious nonsense.

I like post modernism is games and films, but I usually like the media to be good as well.
MGS2 is a game I think does the whole post modern thing well.

 

[Jogre]

There's a youtuber called MrBtongue who I've subscribed to recently, who makes lots of interesting points about the problems with the gaming industry.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

I've never playef Gone Home or had any interest in it. From what I can gather it's just pretentious nonsense.

I like post modernism is games and films, but I usually like the media to be good as well.
MGS2 is a game I think does the whole post modern thing well.

MGS2 is very misunderstood I feel. It's one of the best Metal Gear games in story and theme but I think so many people didn't understand it well hence it being a lower rated Metal Gear. Anyone who rates Phantom Pain over MGS2 is clearly nuts.

 

[Millim]

MGS2 is very misunderstood I feel. It's one of the best Metal Gear games in story and theme but I think so many people didn't understand it well hence it being a lower rated Metal Gear. Anyone who rates Phantom Pain over MGS2 is clearly nuts.

Gameplay wise, Phantom Pain is better.
But yes, I feel MSG2 is very underrated. It often gets overlooked for just being what it is.
While I personally prefer Phantom Pain, I would recommend MGS2 over it, mostly because everyone has played MGSV without playing it, MGS2 on the other hand is very unique.

I would also say that people should play Metal Gear 2 as I feel that's even more underrated.

 

[Morrigan98]

I absolutely can't stand games considered "art" by these pretentious fuckwits, One thing I really fucking hate in gaming is NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY THE FUCKING GAME, I don't want to watch a fucking 10 hour movie with a bit of interacitivity and an average at best plot (Last of Us, Heavy Rain, Uncharted, Gone home, etc) video games will never do what films do best or what books do best because its a DIFFERENT fucking medium all together, I think the crux of the problem is developers try very hard to emulate movies with respect to video games and fail very hard at this, because its not fucking realistic you can't make a good fucking game with little interactivity, the sad part is that I feel gaming can actually have the potential to tell a story in a more meaningful way through its gameplay than a movie can.

 

[CaptJ]

@Prone Squanderer and @Millim
Despite Kojima's reputation of overusing cutscenes, he does geniuely want to make a game. One neat little touch that he made in MGS3 was the Game Over screen turning into the words Time Paradox. At first, people would assume that it is just a pretentious way to telegraph that it is a prequel. However, it serves three important purposes.

1. It serves as the actual Game Over screen.
2. Its transition from Game Over to Time Paradox serves as a timer for the fake death pill.
3. It gives a lore friendly explanation for why killing Ocelot results in a failstate.

I absolutely hate people who say just focus on the gameplay, story, atmosphere, or whatever. I had a moron tell me to look at FO4 from a purely gameplay perspective (It is still bad on that front but it is harder to prove.) on issues like Legendary weapons and charging for criticals. Certain weapons were balanced around higher critical rates and having a Fatman do critical damage kinda ruins the whole indiscriminate nature of explosives.

To add to the lack of standards thing, I think that without "classics" standards only go up or down. Many reviewers throw in a line or two about how, despite a game being worse than its predecessor or other games before it, they still think that it is better what has came out recently.

Classics must be established by deep analysis but the consenus of games nowadays is established by launch sales and timely reviews that are rushed out the door. You don't expect critic to skim a book or worse write a review before finishing it.

Also, no other medium expects you to pay so much.

 

[Vergil]

The Metal Gear series is one of the best series ever made.

 

[Millim]

Snake Eater is pretty much tied with New Vegas as my all time favourite game.

 

[Walpknut]

The AAA part of the industry is a creative dead end. We have known that for a while, with all the developments in technology the only thing they seem to care about is having more complex shaders on increasingly simplified games. Making offline mmos seems to be the new trend. Hope Dishonored 2 doesn't disappoint, it's llike the only AAA game I even have a passing interest in at this point.

I am just gonna play Pokeymans in 12 days, maybe at the end of this shit year something good will happen.