Reconstructing Fallout 3 Retrospective Series

Radiosity · Apr 13, 2016

I've been writing a retrospective series on Fallout 3 for a while, which went on hiatus for a time due to reasons I don't feel like going into. I'm back to it now and have just put up a new post (Part 12) today, so here it is if you feel like reading.
Basically I'm looking at Fallout 3's world, factions, and overall setting... and fixing the myriad problems it has by introducing my own ideas to overwrite Bethesda's idiocy. It's a depressing journey at times because I keep reminding myself of how much better 3 could have been, but I'm happy to take one for the team because it's also fun to write

Black Angel · Apr 13, 2016

Ah, it's you! I've been reading all of it some time ago, and I remembered it was only up to part 10. So, is it done now?

Anyway, is the site's layout different? It is different from what I remembered :confused:

Radiosity · Apr 13, 2016

Black Angel said:
Ah, it's you! I've been reading all of it some time ago, and I remembered it was only up to part 10. So, is it done now?

Anyway, is the site's layout different? It is different from what I remembered

Hey, nice to randomly run into someone who's read already

And yeah, I was using another theme before but unfortunately it was pretty old and hadn't been updated in about 2 years, and was causing problems with my share plugin, so I've switched to a different theme now (pain in the ass, but worth it in the end). And nope, not done, not even close, lol. Part 12 just went up, 13 is ready to go, 14 is being written. Then I'll be focusing on factions for probably another 6+ parts.

edit: since I've not posted anything at all this month other than Part 12, I've published Part 13 today. Talking about turning the raiders into a real faction with quests and influence in the wastes.

http://www.radkatsu.uk/2016/04/reconstructing-fallout-3-part-13/

Ragemage · Apr 13, 2016

I really enjoyed reading this. It quite reminds me of Shamus Young's review of FO3. ( http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27085 )

I don't really have anything to add, I like your ideas. If there's one thing I'd like to touch up on though:

Do you recall those Chinese ghouls at Mama Dolce's? It has its own propaganda radio and everything, yet if you go there, they're hostile on sight. It's just another shooting gallery, despite the fact they went to the lengths to make a radio station for the place as well as make the ghouls speak Chinese. It's pretty much like how in FO4 there's a.. I believe Dutchland ship you can find full of nonferal ghouls. The ghouls all speak Dutch, and yet for some damn reason they're hostile on sight. No interactions with them or attempts to communicate, no finding out why there are Dutch trapped on a ship way out in the ocean or why they're ghouls, nada.

Considering how your citizens of Eighton were essentially started like the BOS, remnants of the US army, (except they actually seemed to keep some of their old US Army background unlike the BOS), it'd be great if there was some sort of tie-in between Eighton and Mama Dolce's. Maybe the 8th have heard the radio broadcast but they don't really have the forces to go check it out themselves, so they ask you to. Then once you get there, depending on your Science and Speech, you might actually be fluent in Chinese perhaps, and could communicate with them. Then they become a minor faction, sort of like Goodsprings in NV. Relevant for only a couple of missions but still a faction.

Then there's some quest where they send you to kill the 8th because they know the 8th are remnants of the US government, or you can go back and talk to the 8th's leader who will tell you to kill the Chinese remnants. I'm not really sure what sort of peaceful solution there could be to a quest like this though. Perhaps you could convince the Chinese ghouls that they've lived a very long time, and that their personal grudges should've died back when the world went up in flames. (Sorta like how you convince Ulysses to give up his hatred of the NCR at the end of Lonesome Road with a high enough speech) Then, taking one of them with you to Eighton, you could translate for the ghoul that they want to make peace with Eighton. Then you must convince Eighton's leader that the war between America and Chinese ended centuries ago, and that both sides need to let it go and help reforge this new world. After that they become trading partners or something.

It could even tie into the moderative 8th and the hardline 8th. If you slaughter the Chinese, this gives the hardliners more of an edge because it shows people that the past cannot be forgotten, no matter how long it's been, and we must stick to the old ways of the US military, so the hardliners gain more power in the government. Convincing the 8th and the Remnants to form an alliance would help out the moderates, as it shows people that clinging to an ideal for so long isn't always necessarily a good thing, and can potentially lead to the slaughter of innocents, thus giving the moderates an advantage in government. This would fit in with New Vegas's theme of "Begin Again" VS "Letting It Go", don't you think?

I'm not asking you to add these things to your discussion of course, I'm just wondering what you think of my idea and how it could play into your vision of FO3? Because I really like your vision of FO3. It just seems like a waste to have these pre-war Ghouls in proper Chinese military uniforms, speak Chinese, carry Chinese weaponry, still be loyal to China and probably know a lot about China's prewar history, and then do NOTHING with them. Such a waste on Bethesda's part. They kinda made up for it a teensy bit with that one Chinese submarine officer in FO4 but you can't ask him any questions about China thanks to shitty dialogue.

Radiosity · Apr 13, 2016

Thanks! And lol, Shamus' posts on the game are where I got some of my inspiration, along with various posts here on NMA

I already have some vague plans for the Chinese ghouls, one will actually be a companion character who could add a new dimension to the world by talking to the player about how things work in his home country, the politics and reasons behind things they did, how they infiltrated America, and so on. Hence why I mentioned something to do with Point Lookout a couple of parts ago (the Chinese sub and other quests involving that general theme will tie into the companion character).

Beyond the companion I hadn't actually thought much more on them yet, so I'm loving your ideas, thanks! I'll include them with a credit when I talk about factions (starting in Part 15, 14 is being written now and will be doing something new with Oasis and unscrewing up Harold). Appreciate the feedback, thanks!

And I've not personally gone to the Chinese sub in Fallout 4 yet, though I did ping its location to return to when I can be bothered. I know you can talk to the captain and even help him get home iirc? But yeah, expecting interesting dialogue with a character like that in a Beth game... *sigh* no chance. Shows Bethesda can occasionally put together quests that don't simply involve shooting things at least, I guess? Even a stopped clock is right twice a day and all that.

Ragemage · Apr 13, 2016

Radiosity said:
And I've not personally gone to the Chinese sub in Fallout 4 yet, though I did ping its location to return to when I can be bothered. I know you can talk to the captain and even help him get home iirc? But yeah, expecting interesting dialogue with a character like that in a Beth game... *sigh* no chance. Shows Bethesda can occasionally put together quests that don't simply involve shooting things at least, I guess? Even a stopped clock is right twice a day and all that.

Basically yeah, the whole point of the quest is to help the ghoul get home. Honestly his dialogue is probably the best in the game. He speaks with a mixture of Chinese and English. He has the only dialogue that left any emotional impact on me, and it's when you ask him about going home. I won't spoil it for you since it's pretty much the only enjoyable dialogue in the game.

The problem is that once you finish the quest, even though he says he's going home, the submarine never leaves the harbor. It just sits there forever. Which makes me think it's going to tie back in with some sort of "large" DLC where you take his sub to China with him and help him "rebuild China" with new settlement building crap.

Oddly enough though, the captain isn't marked essential, he's killable, so I could be wrong there. Another interesting thing about his quest, is the fact that you CAN fail it and get a game over as a result. When you're helping him fix his sub, at one point you have to put 2 ingredients into the reactor in a specific order. If you fuck up the order, the submarine nukes itself and you die along with it.

Radiosity · Apr 14, 2016

A fail state? Wow. I'm actually kind of surprised. Guess I'll head on over and check that quest out whenever I decide to boot the game again, thanks.

Ragemage · Apr 14, 2016

Let me know what you think of it once you beat it! Most people around here hate it like the rest of the game, but I think it's pretty much the only good quest in the game.

Radiosity · Apr 14, 2016

Just checked my notes for the Chinese remnant, seems I had a vague idea about having them move to Underworld with the intention of trying to integrate since the war was such a long time ago and they're basically just wasting away sitting in Mama Dolce's place.

From my note file:
"Chinese Remnant/Mama Dolce's:
Probably not worth bothering. Would they really have stayed holed up here for 200 years as ghouls? The war's over, everyone they worked for died, America's done, why bother? Just get out, find Underworld, and integrate, it's going to be more enjoyable than clinging to past glories, guys.
Alternatively, they can be a remnant faction like the Enclave in NV, maybe a quest tied to them, hell... even a companion like Arcade? There's a ghoul companion in both games, so why not make it one that's actually interesting. They can talk about the war, give you some insights into the Chinese war machine, all sorts of fun little titbits of info this guy could share as a companion, maybe with integration into ghoul society as their quest, they want to leave, but getting to Underworld is tricky, so you have to figure out a way to do so.

There's a mission in Point Lookout where you have to find a Chinese spy or something. Look into this, it could tie really nicely into my own Chinese remnant follower (similar to Elijah and Veronica).

If I go with the 20 years after deal, this would make a lot more sense. The Chinese remnant would be THERE, literally still there from when they originally operated. Hiding out, trying not to get killed by radiation or other hazards. Or alternatively, go 50 years and still have some of them ghoulified, that way enough time has passed for most survivors to have died or moved on, so Chinese remnant soldiers/infiltrators etc aren't so likely to be shot on sight."

So yeah, I'll probably still do something with that as a potential idea for one direction to take them, but it can easily be tied into the quests you suggested as well. Actually, given a lot of Underworld's residents are pre-war... hmm, that would lead to serious friction, so maybe the Wight House would be a better bet, given these ghouls would have combat experience and training in various fields that would be helpful to the newer ghouls who have no hangups over things that happened 100+ years before they were even born.

Ragemage said:
Let me know what you think of it once you beat it! Most people around here hate it like the rest of the game, but I think it's pretty much the only good quest in the game.

Will do! Honestly while it's a terrible Fallout game, it's fun as a shooter looter, at least for as long as it lasts. Great atmosphere, especially in somewhere like Sanctuary at night with lights and things in the houses, it has some nice locations like the Glowing Sea, and I've put some 90 hours into it, so it's doing something right. It's just not doing Fallout right

Radiosity · Apr 18, 2016

Part 14 is up! Talking briefly about Harold and fixing Oasis this time.

http://www.radkatsu.uk/2016/04/reconstructing-fallout-3-part-14/

Ragemage · Apr 18, 2016

I actually really really love what you did with Oasis! Plus the place COULD have a slight reference to Little Shop of Horrors if Gestalt's model was the same was as the Giant Spore Plant from Honest Hearts.

Lots of lovely ideas here. I like how you incorporated your other factions into this and give the mesmetron more uses than just slavery. Now it can be used to send people to the cultists of Old Olney or this place, good thinking! The whole part with convincing Gestalt to stop eating people by using Big Town kinda reminds me of Beyond the Beef in New Vegas. Mainly the part where in that quest you can either tell the brahmin baron the truth about his son and shoot up the place, or tell him a partial truth but convince him to keep supplying New Vegas with brahmin meat and giving him his son back, thus making everyone happy. (well, everyone except the old man that starts the Pheeble Will quest)

I can't wait for the next update! Also any idea what Gestalt might sound like if you had a similar voice in mind?

Radiosity · Apr 18, 2016

Thanks for the comments!

The spore plants in Honest Hearts/Big MT were part of my inspiration for this place actually, figured having something that ties nicely into a similar yet different experiment in New Vegas would be good.

I have to wonder about Bethesda's design process with these games. Remember I mentioned in an earlier part about how it feels like they compartmentalise everything? It doesn't honestly feel like they have any sort of creative director to maintain a unified vision, they literally just hand little areas off to people and let them go wild without regard to logic or consistency. Whereas in New Vegas you can see in basically every single location how much thought was put into tying them all together in a coherent fashion with things in one location affecting other locations.

I hadn't actually considered the parallel to Beyond the Beef, but yeah, it's a similar set up now I think about it. As far as the voice thing goes... I kind of feel like it wouldn't exactly have a voice as such. Maybe something like a susurration comprised of many voices, none of them clear and none of what they say exactly comprehensible. Something to indicate that this entity is totally alien to normal human understanding, backed up by having to communicate via non-verbal means

Aperture Science XS 2000 · Apr 20, 2016

Yeah, one of the major problems of fallout 3 and 4 is that they add thing to do nothing with them. They are basically walls. Nothing to investigate. Why should i investigate the dutch ghoul if they're gonna try to kill me? Only for a shitty bobblehead? No thanks.

Radiosity · Apr 25, 2016

And Part 15 is up! Talking about my main antagonist faction in this and the next post I'll be putting up.

http://www.radkatsu.uk/2016/04/reconstructing-fallout-3-part-15/

Elaxter · Apr 29, 2016

i love the idea of the british being the main antag in the story.

Radiosity · Apr 29, 2016

Elaxter said:
i love the idea of the british being the main antag in the story.

Thanks! I guess it might've raised a few eyebrows but eh, I felt like doing something a bit different

Radiosity · May 7, 2016

And Part 16 is up! Taking a tangent for a few parts to talk about a couple of other factions before going back to the British, largely because these other factions will provide some additional context for how the Brits will fit in the world. Also, some complaining about Bethesda being creatively bankrupt, because why not.

http://www.radkatsu.uk/2016/05/reconstructing-fallout-3-part-16/

Ragemage · May 8, 2016

Mm, more Raider factions. I'm loving it. I also love how you've thought up so many ways to use the Mesmetron.

All this is making me want to go do a psychopath raider run in New Vegas. I hope Tyranny comes out soon, I need my evil playthrough fix so badly.

Radiosity · May 16, 2016

Ragemage said:
Mm, more Raider factions. I'm loving it. I also love how you've thought up so many ways to use the Mesmetron.

All this is making me want to go do a psychopath raider run in New Vegas. I hope Tyranny comes out soon, I need my evil playthrough fix so badly.

I wouldn't exactly call them raiders, it's a sleazy place filled with the dregs of society, certainly, but it's also very much a business run for profit

On the Mesmetron... yeah, today's post actually has another use, lol

On that subject, mutants! Also, another faction that's completely moronic as it stands that I'm attempting to fix up a bit.

http://www.radkatsu.uk/2016/05/reconstructing-fallout-3-part-17/

peadar87 · Jun 22, 2016

This disnae appear to be working, which is a pity, as I was looking forward to reading it

Reconstructing Fallout 3 Retrospective Series

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