Reddit: Fallout 4 Was A Good Thing

I think it is totally bullshit, they have been dumbing down each game since daggerfall, each more dumbed down than the last, I thought they wouldn't make a more "less RPG" game than Skyrim and then they throw Fallout 4 at me.

It is not just Bethesda though, dumbing down RPGs is the norm because the average player gets confused playing a game with several stats and skills, the average player gets bored of long texts or dialogues, the average player needs a lot of shooty shooty bang bang to be entertained.

For example Front Mission games were all about stats, tactical turn-based strategy RPG and finding the best performance vs weight limit when equipping your wanzers and then after 5 games they just turned the thing into a FPS.

It's what the average player wants, immediate in your face action and feel like a badass with little effort.

Those people that bought FO4 and then got into the older/better Fallout games are just a drop of water in a big ocean.
 
This guy has no idea how Bethesda works does he? He's literally ignored the fact that NV was made by OBSIDIAN.
 
Someone said:
So as the title says, I think Fallout 4, with its many imperfections, was a good thing for the community and Bethesda.
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Yeah it was a good thing, now you can get used to the mediocrity they're preparing you for in the future. Bethesda benefits because they're making tons of cash off dumbfucks that keep coming back for more.
 
Risewild said:
the average player gets confused playing a game with several stats and skills, the average player gets bored of long texts or dialogues, the average player needs a lot of shooty shooty bang bang to be entertained.
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That's the main problem with a lot of gaming industries today if you ask me. Lots of older games were difficult, confusing, had lots of story, and far less combat than today, and so only the incredibly nerdy were able to get in to them, meaning that they had to appeal to their target audience above anyone else.

Nowadays, absolutely everyone is a gamer, so you have to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Unless you want bad reviews, you have to deal with your average violence obsessed jock.
 
Bethesda are not going to look at all the posts from people who played FNV after Fallout 4 and think "hey, they liked FNV, maybe we should make the next game more like FNV". They're going to look at the sales figures for Fallout 4 and think "hey, we can make millions upon millions of dollars by just doing the same shit every few years".
 
If there was any point for Bethesda to make more people aware of Fallout and then go back to its roots it would have been Fallout 3. Sounds like the guy (OP on reddit) is in extreme denial about Bethesda's future. Kinda sad actually.
 
Mr Fish said:
If there was any point for Bethesda to make more people aware of Fallout and then go back to its roots it would have been Fallout 3. Sounds like the guy (OP on reddit) is in extreme denial about Bethesda's future. Kinda sad actually.
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Well they kinda did do that, what with New Vegas coming after 3; seeing as how the internet wants another Obsidian Fallout this could be the new development cycle for the Fallout series, Bethesda makes a shitty game, Obsidian makes a good game and on the cycle goes.
 
Izak said:
Well they kinda did do that, what with New Vegas coming after 3; seeing as how the internet wants another Obsidian Fallout this could be the new development cycle for the Fallout series, Bethesda makes a shitty game, Obsidian makes a good game and on the cycle goes.
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You know, that would actually be good.
 
Right.
Well, I don't care if that will be an ongoing cycle.
It means we'll have one game that ruins the lore then another that has to 'make do' with what scraps Bethesda tosses their way and be held back by Bethesda's shitty game design and engine. I won't be buying any more games unless a cRPG (that completely and utterly ignores any lore Bethesda's added and altererd and retconned) happens.
 
Mr Fish said:
Right.
Well, I don't care if that will be an ongoing cycle.
It means we'll have one game that ruins the lore then another that has to 'make do' with what scraps Bethesda tosses their way and be held back by Bethesda's shitty game design and engine. I won't be buying any more games unless a cRPG (that completely and utterly ignores any lore Bethesda's added and altererd and retconned) happens.
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Well yeah there is that... at least it's the most realistic option there is.
 
Maybe Obsidian likes being Bethesda's bitch and will come crawling back to them to be leashed. Maybe they'll even offer their studio up for grabs and go "wink wink" at Bethesda, hoping they'll buy them up so that they can be their little work slaves. Like little wallet piglets. Financial domination on a studio level.
 
I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic, and IIRC Obsidian was hardly restricted in their development of FNV, even given complete freedom outside maybe a small number of conditions that can be counted by hand. If Obsidian get to make another Fallout game, then as long as they have the same or greater degree of freedom they had while they were making FNV, then I would be happy to support it. There are some critical aspects that have to be met though, including allowing Obsidian to make a character and dialogue system as they would like. It's been said here that Bethesda would not be keen to the removal of F4's character system in favor of one that is based on the past format of skills, perks, and traits, but I think whether that will be the case remains unclear.

The character and dialogue systems were what doomed F4 to not having any chance at being a, for brevity's sake, great Fallout game. If Bethesda had not decided to stick with them, then would have been no restrictions holding them back from making a great Fallout game, though this is only technically true, and there are other less categorizable issues with the quest and world design that would have existed because it's Bethesda who made this game.

Remove these restrictions, and as I said, there is nothing holding the game back aside from the developers' abilities. Hopefully this will be the case for future Fallout games and RPGs in general.
 
Practicat said:
The character and dialogue systems were what doomed F4 to not having any chance at being a, for brevity's sake, great Fallout game.
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This. Bethesda royally fucked everyone with that dialogue system and character customization. It removed any depth the game could have had without them.

Here's my opinion on the Reddit post, as I' wrote there:

"I understand what you mean, and hey, I admit that was my case as well.

Skyrim -> Fallout 3 -> Fallout: New Vegas -> Morrowind -> Fallout 1

That was my sequence of playing the games (and all in the span of only two years!).

But when we look at things chronologically:

- Morrowind
- Oblivion (dumbed down)
- Oblivion with guns (even more dumbed down compared to the original Fallouts)
- Skyrim (even more dumbed down than Oblivion)
- Fallout 4 (improved in certain aspects complexity-wise, but removed a lot of good things from earlier titles and particularly New Vegas)

Hell, a lot of people say they can't play Morrowind or the original Fallouts because they look terrible, and some even complain you can't do everything in one go. Not being able to do everything in go? In my Role Playing Game? Preposterous. That's where their emphasis is.

It seems like there's a trend of making each game progressively simpler. And we are talking 4 consecutive cases of dumbing down, that's a huge plan we are talking about if your theory is true."
 
Seriously, you should just stop going on the Fallout 4 subreddit. This is simply hopeless.

Still, reading those discussions can be...interesting, I guess.
 
Sergeant Politeness said:
Seriously, you should just stop going on the Fallout 4 subreddit. This is simply hopeless.

Still, reading those discussions can be...interesting, I guess.
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This is the general Fallout subreddit, and it's actually not too bad. Every once in a while, you can get a truly interesting discussion with someone over the intricacies of the franchise. Even if most people on the sub are Bethesda fans, most of them aren't too bad.

Still, then you get the real Bethesdrones or the Black Isle trolls, and all hell breaks loose.
 
I don"t go on Reddit too much, so it might not actually be that bad. But each time I actually go on the Fallout 4 subreddit...oh god.

But then again, this is the Fallout 4 subreddit, so Bethesdrones are to be expected. I find the fact that we're considered a hive mind funny considering the downvote wall msot people with critical thinking experience there.
 
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