Student tased for asking John Kerry questions...
- Thread starter Zeal
- Start date
Maphusio said:
My grandfather was Syrian. I not only read about things like how to survive nuclear, biological, and chemical attacks, I also look up how to make bombs and manufacture guns. I am of the age from which terrorist groups recruit most. I have been to hezbollah's website as well as many other extremist sites that are monitored by the federal government. I am openly critical of the president in the most conservative county of a very pro-bush state. I am openly critical of my local government. I am openly critical of my local police. I have interests in learning Arabic, and traveling to the middle east with special interests to go to several states known to be unfriendly to the US. I think the Israeli Defense Force has committed many war crimes and gotten away with it. I believe that Israel stole the land which it is now on with the help of the west and that Israel should not have nuclear weapons. I play mil-sim airsoft games. I have been known to take pictures of the air-force base right next to white sands missile range. I am in contact or have had contact with many foreign nationals including a few Pakistanis, Saudis, Syrians, Chechens, and Iran. Most of them aren't US friendly.
In the 5 or so years I've been living like this, I have never been arrested nor have I ever been even asked any questions regarding my activities.
[PCE]el_Prez
Vault Fossil
This is more an issue of trigger happy cops than national politics. Cops with tasers are too eager to run a couple hundred volts through people without any fear of consequences.
2 weeks ago I was at a Northern AZ vs. U of AZ football game (i'm NAU alum) and me and my friends were in our guest student section cheering for NAU. Within 20 minutes of the game we were exchanging insults with UofA fans that surrounded us. Some cops got a call of a fight in the stands - even though there was no fight - and came up to check it out.
Upon their arrival they saw that there wasn't a fight going on but they knew NAU fans were getting into it verbally with UofA fans. They picked my friend out of the crowd and said "Your out of here!"
To which my friend replied "Why? What did I do?"
the cop just repeated "Your outa here buddy!"
And my friend again said "Tell me what I did wrong."
Then the cop attempted to grab my friend, he backed away and within seconds was tackled by 4 cops and was tasered by 2 cops simulatiously. My friend is 5'7" 160 lbs. No cop told him that he was under arrest, nor did they give any reason for his needing to leave the game.
Cops today don't have any fear of consequences of their actions. They think they are invinicible and all powerful. After doing a little research online I found this like that pretty much sum's up the attitude of SOME officers....
www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp
2 weeks ago I was at a Northern AZ vs. U of AZ football game (i'm NAU alum) and me and my friends were in our guest student section cheering for NAU. Within 20 minutes of the game we were exchanging insults with UofA fans that surrounded us. Some cops got a call of a fight in the stands - even though there was no fight - and came up to check it out.
Upon their arrival they saw that there wasn't a fight going on but they knew NAU fans were getting into it verbally with UofA fans. They picked my friend out of the crowd and said "Your out of here!"
To which my friend replied "Why? What did I do?"
the cop just repeated "Your outa here buddy!"
And my friend again said "Tell me what I did wrong."
Then the cop attempted to grab my friend, he backed away and within seconds was tackled by 4 cops and was tasered by 2 cops simulatiously. My friend is 5'7" 160 lbs. No cop told him that he was under arrest, nor did they give any reason for his needing to leave the game.
Cops today don't have any fear of consequences of their actions. They think they are invinicible and all powerful. After doing a little research online I found this like that pretty much sum's up the attitude of SOME officers....
www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp
Well, Ah-Teen... Lucky you. I have had things happen to me personally and seen things happen to others in my life that have colored my views... Unpleasant experiences, one involving a town car after 9/11 because a good friend was close to being recruited by "the evil doers". He also had been known to have other involvement with Arabic arms & equipment dealers as well... Best part about that situation is... The guy today, is an avid Bush supporter and is currently working for a contractor in Iraq making enough cash in one year to love happily ever after...
Those stories aside, there are plenty of well documented cases involving very alarming situations where Americans personal freedoms are infringed upon in the name of National Security. Surly you have heard of these kinds of situations. Hell, when things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act make virtually anything the authority figure does legal, I would expect to see the rape of this countries inner most valued beliefs. On top of that the fact that it has taken individual cities and states to pass separate acts to counter the patriot act is just stupefying... Anyway, I'm getting off topic.
Those stories aside, there are plenty of well documented cases involving very alarming situations where Americans personal freedoms are infringed upon in the name of National Security. Surly you have heard of these kinds of situations. Hell, when things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act make virtually anything the authority figure does legal, I would expect to see the rape of this countries inner most valued beliefs. On top of that the fact that it has taken individual cities and states to pass separate acts to counter the patriot act is just stupefying... Anyway, I'm getting off topic.
kid had it coming, after all he did whine like a bitch when he was tased.
best thing to come from this little incident?
http://popeheckler.ytmnd.com/
but in all seriousness. he refused to be removed, and so necessary measures were taken to remove him. could they have wrestled him own hand cuffed him and thrown his dumb ass out? yeah. but tasers are simply fun.
neat little factoid, to carry pepper spray or a taser, the cop/security guy has to actually have it used on him.
best thing to come from this little incident?
http://popeheckler.ytmnd.com/
but in all seriousness. he refused to be removed, and so necessary measures were taken to remove him. could they have wrestled him own hand cuffed him and thrown his dumb ass out? yeah. but tasers are simply fun.
neat little factoid, to carry pepper spray or a taser, the cop/security guy has to actually have it used on him.
Maphusio said:
Wrong, sorry. Recent polls say different. These figures are even lower than others I've heard:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20327875
Also on "an avenue to channel that anger", wrong again, protests happen all the time. One is just about to start in fact, you can can even watch it live:
http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3628506&page=1
No aveunes huh?
Are any of those protesters going to disappear? How about Cindy Sheehan? When is she going to disappear?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/07/mom.protest/index.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/26/AR2005092600143.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4160032.stm
I also think its funny that some of you that are bitching about the government so much want the government to cover health care. That is really funny.
And people who fear our goverment, who plays $2.1 billion just to keep our food safe more than the terrorists who spend millions trying to kill us just baffle me.
And if he fights you while you try to do this, then what? You missed that part I guess, the part where he fought the people trying to get him out of the building?
What about the part where they asked him to stop, because he was rambling and then cut off his mic and THEN tried to escort him out, did you miss that part as well? I guess so.
Thrawn said:
You claim that I should not fear my country when they are looking out for my best interests by spending so much to secure my food... Then why the hell are people getting food poisoning from my government allowing rancid foods from China to be imported?
http://www.shootersparty.org.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=50&topic=287.msg2227
You know what I should fear is this...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/19/AR2006041902594.html
http://online.wsj.com/public/articl...N4qoenDbAFbOI8Ywp2O_M_20070308.html?mod=blogs
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/58/18452
Rambling? Funny thats not what the director of the event said he was doing. The director said he was out of line and that is why he turned off his mic and ordered the police to escort him out. I guess you didn't read that part did you?
Do you know how many protests I have been to? Do you know how many petitions I have signed? And for what!? What good has come of them? There have been no victories. The media barely covers these protests. The war, the rape of this country continues on.
http://wilsonizer.blogspot.com/2006/03/ineffective-catharsis-of-american.html
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2...IneffectiveAndUnconstructiveWayOfMakingChange
Thats the feeling of helpless. Your elected leaders are voted into office by an overwhelming margin to complete a task and then they do just the opposite? What's that all about?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051101950.html
You are talking about Polls of young white Americans that are happy!? Well here are a few polls that say America feels a bit different than that.
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20060821.htm
http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/07/poll_american_majority_disagre.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983841.stm
Point is polls do NOT reflect the majority of anyone and can be used in either argument here.
Do I want my government to handle health care? YES I DO! Is that going to give them more power than they all ready have over me... NO IT WONT. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that it would or even could.
You are naive to think that those whom act out will not be stopped.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/60838/?comments=view&cID=723416&pID=720725
http://slate.com/id/2166589/
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2002/08/23/754/93365
I'm sorry, its not the "wrong story" It's how I feel, its how many many other Americans feel. Polls do give us a inkling into how a particular group of people feel about a given topic. Polls, while not an accurate depiction of the entire people in question are great for reinforcing an argument or theory. They are not to be used as the final word on any topic.
Edit: Fixed spelling
i still stand by what i said.
dragging the kid out = fine.
tasering him = bad.
there was no need to cuff him right there & then, nor to do it with such disproportionate violence. even if you wanted to cuff him, there are easy techniques to use in that situation that doesnt require tasering the fucker.
dragging the kid out = fine.
tasering him = bad.
there was no need to cuff him right there & then, nor to do it with such disproportionate violence. even if you wanted to cuff him, there are easy techniques to use in that situation that doesnt require tasering the fucker.
Maphusio said:
I was merely point out the fact that our government does a lot to keep us safe. Yes, of course there are holes in our infastructer. Yes the whole china thing is bad, I won't deny that.
But in the same token, you made my point. Look at us vs. China. They deal with this stuff constantly and people die. I haven't heard reports of the american food supply killing people but I could be wrong. You know what would happen to a baby formual company in America if they made formual that ended up killing infants?
Maphusio said:
Just incase you need a reminder about what this thread is about...
The Overseer said:
Lets take the "The government spends too much on the Iraq war!" to another thread please sir.
Maphusio said:
Lol.....
I guess we just have differing views of what "Rambling" is...
Maphusio said:
You know what protests do?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/election.main/index.html
If you think you should be able to get a million people and make immeditate change the type of government you are looking for is a theocracy. And you better hope you're on the right side of the religion.
Maphusio said:
This is by far my favorite part of your post, haha. You post "Amercains are mad!" I post "No they arn't look". So you come back and say "Great young whites are happy, so what"
Whites make up 80% of the population, african american's make up 12.8 (source: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html) So if more than 50% of the whites are happy, the majority of the country is happy but lets take it even a step further. 51% of african's are happy too!
So what does this have to do with polls on the war in Iraq? British polls at that!? Haha.
As a total side note I am sure these polls accurately reflect the feelings of the people and I would not dispute them even though I disagree with the opinion of the majority. Polls, while a snapshot are still a powerful indicator of the public.
Maphusio said:
I'll leave the health care debate here because that is for a different thread, we have both said our 2 cents.
Maphusio said:
Lets take the story about voter fraud. Lets take the worst possible senceriao and say the governor came to the guy who ran the organization and said, "If you don't stop what you are doing, we will make your life hell"
Don't you think it would make sense for him to find that guys political rivals and break the story to them? Don't you think he could get some milage out of that as well as getting an enemy thrown out of office? Doesn't that make a little sense?
If I ran an organization and the governor of Washington state said to me "You better stop protesting or we will make your life a living hell" I walk down to the challengers office and see what we could do to catch her (in the case of washington) and exploit the situation and get the challenger elected.
Then I'd ask for a cushy government job.
Maybe we have different ideas of what this kid was trying to do. If I didn't want to get taken from a room I'd throw myself on the ground and do everything I could to keep my arms away from your hands. And like I said before, it would probably be nearly impossible to cuff me without potentially injuring me worse than what a taser hit would do.
If you have been given plenty of warning and been asked nicely and you still fight, I think 6 seconds of pain is a fair punishment.
I have to say this:
I have been looking at both the shortened video from CNN and the longer version on youtube. It is clear to me that tis guy were removed only because he told Kerry that Kerry had won the 2004 elections, based on a book Kerry had recommended that they read.
He takes a little time to warm up this question maybe 30-45 seconds, but shouldn't this be allowed? I mean the guy needs to lay the foundations for his question about why he thinks that Kerry should get Bush impeached.
As far as I'm concerned, this student had every right to say what he did at the Kerry convention (or meeting)at his university. It is very difficult the audio both on CNN or Youtube from other sources than the student. It is therefore, not entirely clear, from what I've heard that the student was warned. Anyway, he only seemed to get to ask the one question about impeaching Bush. And then maybe the debate leader? decided to cut his mike, maybe beacuse he, the debate leader, didn't like the question about the student thinking that Bush should be impeached.
I thought when police arrested someone in the US, the police needed to say the whole Miranda act thing, even when they were (or are) just campus police? The police did nothing of the sorts here. It also took 4-6 strongarmed, broadshouldered police officers, to bring him down from the podium and onto the ground.
There they apparently, according to the longer video on youtube, handcuffed him. After that, they began tazering him in the chest, not one time, or two times, but three or four times. This is clearly violent use of too much excessive force by the police officers.
Didn't the police officers have batons they could use or what about the special police grip they are trained to use. Or maybe they just could have asked him politely, but firmly, to come with them and to respect that his time was up. Then this wasn't doomed to end this way.
And yes, the student did ask Senator Kerry a question: 'why didn't Kerry do anything to get Bush impeached after the 2004 elections?' And that's exactly the time where the police removed the student from the platform with the mike. Conincidence ? I think (maybe) not. And when is it the police business to ascertain if a student has the (right) question(s) or not to say, oh, Senator Kerry? It should be up to the student and Kerry, shouldn't it?
/aries369
I have been looking at both the shortened video from CNN and the longer version on youtube. It is clear to me that tis guy were removed only because he told Kerry that Kerry had won the 2004 elections, based on a book Kerry had recommended that they read.
He takes a little time to warm up this question maybe 30-45 seconds, but shouldn't this be allowed? I mean the guy needs to lay the foundations for his question about why he thinks that Kerry should get Bush impeached.
As far as I'm concerned, this student had every right to say what he did at the Kerry convention (or meeting)at his university. It is very difficult the audio both on CNN or Youtube from other sources than the student. It is therefore, not entirely clear, from what I've heard that the student was warned. Anyway, he only seemed to get to ask the one question about impeaching Bush. And then maybe the debate leader? decided to cut his mike, maybe beacuse he, the debate leader, didn't like the question about the student thinking that Bush should be impeached.
I thought when police arrested someone in the US, the police needed to say the whole Miranda act thing, even when they were (or are) just campus police? The police did nothing of the sorts here. It also took 4-6 strongarmed, broadshouldered police officers, to bring him down from the podium and onto the ground.
There they apparently, according to the longer video on youtube, handcuffed him. After that, they began tazering him in the chest, not one time, or two times, but three or four times. This is clearly violent use of too much excessive force by the police officers.
Didn't the police officers have batons they could use or what about the special police grip they are trained to use. Or maybe they just could have asked him politely, but firmly, to come with them and to respect that his time was up. Then this wasn't doomed to end this way.
And yes, the student did ask Senator Kerry a question: 'why didn't Kerry do anything to get Bush impeached after the 2004 elections?' And that's exactly the time where the police removed the student from the platform with the mike. Conincidence ? I think (maybe) not. And when is it the police business to ascertain if a student has the (right) question(s) or not to say, oh, Senator Kerry? It should be up to the student and Kerry, shouldn't it?
/aries369
Give it a rest, really. The kid was not taken out because they didn't like the questions he was asking. He was taken out because he was rambling, argumentative, hostile, and talking about completely asinine shit. If you'd read any articles about it, you'd know that the director of the forum (or the school itself? can't recall) switched off the guy's mic and instructed the police to escort him out. At first, it's quite obvious that's all they were doing. They didn't immediately slap cuffs on him or wrestle him to the ground. But, as is also obvious, the guy, either panicking or looking for yet more attention (I lean towards the latter), started yelling about being arrested, struggled, and attempted to get away. He had every option of leaving the forum quietly and peacefully, and he chose not to.aries369 said:
However, I do agree with SuAside that tasering him was probably stepping over the line (and I believe that those responsible for that did get suspended). If it was only one or two officers, I can understand if they were having trouble getting him into cuffs and were forced to stun him. However, with the 6 or so that were there, it should've been a fairly easy matter to overpower him. He wasn't hopped up on amphetamines or anything (that we know of).
Thrawn, I'd appreciate in the future providing something more than "lol" and misinterpretations of what I said as a rebuttal to my argument.
It seems we can take apart each others arguments all day. Yes MANY other countries INCLUDING China have stopped US imports because we were sending them crap. As you previously stated, another argument, another time.
My point on polls was clearly given. They are not a good reflection of the majority of people. The concept of polling a few thousand people and dreaming that somehow means the rest of those people think or feel the same is absolutely ludicrous. Again, another argument, another time.
I'm glad the American police are able to determine what constitutes as appropriate free speech. Sarcasm aside, I don't agree with that. Lets look at your quote of the article a little closer.
Its funny you choose the democratic victory at the senate. The moment they plopped down there, the tune changed. Suddenly, there is no plan for impeaching Bush as the American public was assured would happen. This happened right after a private dinner Nancy had with ol' George. Politics maybe, but, another time, another thread.
Note, I quoted the BBC as I felt it was good information to have especially since other countries have a different take on whats going on in and outside of the USA. I previously stated my views on polls.
Your hypothetical situation involving political figures local to me is interesting. Especially since the recent election was too close to call and one of the longest drawn out elections in the history of the USA. Voter fraud was found people were fired, charges were filed. I'm not convinced that the current governor (while I am glad to have her) is legitimately the governor of Washington State. That aside, I don't buy your resolution to that potential problem for one minute. It's not that simple to resolve a situation like that.
It seems we can take apart each others arguments all day. Yes MANY other countries INCLUDING China have stopped US imports because we were sending them crap. As you previously stated, another argument, another time.
My point on polls was clearly given. They are not a good reflection of the majority of people. The concept of polling a few thousand people and dreaming that somehow means the rest of those people think or feel the same is absolutely ludicrous. Again, another argument, another time.
I'm glad the American police are able to determine what constitutes as appropriate free speech. Sarcasm aside, I don't agree with that. Lets look at your quote of the article a little closer.
Its funny you choose the democratic victory at the senate. The moment they plopped down there, the tune changed. Suddenly, there is no plan for impeaching Bush as the American public was assured would happen. This happened right after a private dinner Nancy had with ol' George. Politics maybe, but, another time, another thread.
Note, I quoted the BBC as I felt it was good information to have especially since other countries have a different take on whats going on in and outside of the USA. I previously stated my views on polls.
Your hypothetical situation involving political figures local to me is interesting. Especially since the recent election was too close to call and one of the longest drawn out elections in the history of the USA. Voter fraud was found people were fired, charges were filed. I'm not convinced that the current governor (while I am glad to have her) is legitimately the governor of Washington State. That aside, I don't buy your resolution to that potential problem for one minute. It's not that simple to resolve a situation like that.
Wild_qwerty
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
blah blah blah.... bullshit
The day six cops cant hand-cuff one skinny student and need to taser him is the day they need to lay off the donuts and go to the gym.
So the first cops taser wouldn't deploy, What if the second cops didn't deploy either? Maybe just shoot the guy instead?
The day six cops cant hand-cuff one skinny student and need to taser him is the day they need to lay off the donuts and go to the gym.
So the first cops taser wouldn't deploy, What if the second cops didn't deploy either? Maybe just shoot the guy instead?
this
goes a long with this
Your point/argument was that he wasn't rambling. My response was that "Meyer did not ask any specific question and instead "badgered" the senator, and at one point said something about President Clinton being impeached over a sexual act."
If his question isn't rambling I don't know what is. I think the police report offers a pretty clear definition of what he said while his mic was on.
#1 the police didn't decide when to cut the mic or when he needed to be removed. That was the ACCENT Director.
#2 Free Speech doesn't mean the right to say what ever you want and people have to listen.
This was an event organized and ran by an entity (who wasn't the police BTW), they get to decide who asks questions and how long the questions are allowed to be. The fact that they even told him to ask the question instead of just cutting off his political rant should have been enough to move the whole event in the right direction.
I think it was fair for the Director to say, "You've wasted everyone's time, please stop talking and leave the building." That isn't limiting someone's free speech, that is managing an event.
My point was that people wanted change and they got change. People have a voice and they made it heard. Does that mean that these same people who want change should get to decide exactly what happens to our country? No way.
It sounds like you're upset that you don't get your way, not that you don't have a voice.
EDIT:
I refuse to argue with someone who has the Crusader guy as their avatar out of respect for that game.
Maphusio said:
goes a long with this
Maphusio said:
Your point/argument was that he wasn't rambling. My response was that "Meyer did not ask any specific question and instead "badgered" the senator, and at one point said something about President Clinton being impeached over a sexual act."
If his question isn't rambling I don't know what is. I think the police report offers a pretty clear definition of what he said while his mic was on.
Maphusio said:
#1 the police didn't decide when to cut the mic or when he needed to be removed. That was the ACCENT Director.
#2 Free Speech doesn't mean the right to say what ever you want and people have to listen.
This was an event organized and ran by an entity (who wasn't the police BTW), they get to decide who asks questions and how long the questions are allowed to be. The fact that they even told him to ask the question instead of just cutting off his political rant should have been enough to move the whole event in the right direction.
I think it was fair for the Director to say, "You've wasted everyone's time, please stop talking and leave the building." That isn't limiting someone's free speech, that is managing an event.
I don't understand how your links make a point on polls. You post links to what is the most obviously true statement of the year "Most American's don't approve of the war" and say "See, polls can't tell you what the majority thinks."Maphusio said:
Maphusio said:
My point was that people wanted change and they got change. People have a voice and they made it heard. Does that mean that these same people who want change should get to decide exactly what happens to our country? No way.
It sounds like you're upset that you don't get your way, not that you don't have a voice.
EDIT:
Wild_qwerty said:
I refuse to argue with someone who has the Crusader guy as their avatar out of respect for that game.
EuphoricOneTriesAgain
First time out of the vault
The officers were perfectly justified in their actions. You don't want to get tazed? Then quit being a moron and obey their commands. Typical clue idiot student (the kid in the video).
Also, before people comment on this, they should attempt to know what they're talking about (too late).
Also, before people comment on this, they should attempt to know what they're talking about (too late).
EuphoricOneTriesAgain said:
You think its okay to tazer someone who did nothing criminal?
what about you, if a cop tells you to stop talking to a political figure, and you still want to, do you think you should get tazed for TALKING?
I mean, removed from the building is reasonable. but this man was not in any remote way a criminal, nevertheless someone they couldnt handle.
they were trigger happy, thats all there is to it.
if these cops had their way, theyd probably taze every asshole who refused to comply with things they said, because theyre clearly irrational and.or power tripping.
excessive force, by and far.
granted, that kid is a douche and deserved to get cuffed and removed, but in no way did he deserve to be fucking ELECTROCUTED
^Quoted for truth, mostly.^
Those cops were out of line, plain and simple. The kid in question, loudmouthed showstopper though he may have been, was NOT in possession of a weapon and was not resisting violently. He was simply resisting. The police had the right and the authority (in fact, the imperative) to remove him from the premises, but even if you want to sidestep the fact that they had more than adequate manpower to get him cuffed quick-and-dirty the old-fashioned way, I've got friends in law enforcement, and I can tell you that the officers' conduct here was of a measure that is reserved, by official standard operating procedure, for a degree of resistance that is at least three or four levels down the scale from what this kid was putting up
While I tend to agree with the general thrust of the posts before mine that were cast in the "liberal crusader" mold, though, I do have to point out that I'm not sure that removing somebody who's disturbing the peace is the same thing as arresting them. And even though he WAS later detained, I really don't think it's fair to start shouting about how he wasn't read his rights simply because we didn't see it being done on-camera. They can't really give him a fair Miranda reading while he's shouting his head off, anyway. The fuzz could have saved a whole lot of face by answering him, but they decided not to become part of his little show any more than they had to. Unwise, perhaps, from a PR standpoint, but as far as I know it was perfectly legal so long as they covered their procedural bases shortly thereafter.
*Incidentally, I've been perfectly open, since the turn of the millennium, about my desire for "my" esteemed head of state to tie himself and his entire cabinet together at the waist and fearlessly lead them all in a leap down a mineshaft, but I come away from this video profoundly relieved that we never had to weather a President Kerry.
Those cops were out of line, plain and simple. The kid in question, loudmouthed showstopper though he may have been, was NOT in possession of a weapon and was not resisting violently. He was simply resisting. The police had the right and the authority (in fact, the imperative) to remove him from the premises, but even if you want to sidestep the fact that they had more than adequate manpower to get him cuffed quick-and-dirty the old-fashioned way, I've got friends in law enforcement, and I can tell you that the officers' conduct here was of a measure that is reserved, by official standard operating procedure, for a degree of resistance that is at least three or four levels down the scale from what this kid was putting up
While I tend to agree with the general thrust of the posts before mine that were cast in the "liberal crusader" mold, though, I do have to point out that I'm not sure that removing somebody who's disturbing the peace is the same thing as arresting them. And even though he WAS later detained, I really don't think it's fair to start shouting about how he wasn't read his rights simply because we didn't see it being done on-camera. They can't really give him a fair Miranda reading while he's shouting his head off, anyway. The fuzz could have saved a whole lot of face by answering him, but they decided not to become part of his little show any more than they had to. Unwise, perhaps, from a PR standpoint, but as far as I know it was perfectly legal so long as they covered their procedural bases shortly thereafter.
*Incidentally, I've been perfectly open, since the turn of the millennium, about my desire for "my" esteemed head of state to tie himself and his entire cabinet together at the waist and fearlessly lead them all in a leap down a mineshaft, but I come away from this video profoundly relieved that we never had to weather a President Kerry.
The law is not above ethics, plain and simple.
If you believe that it is, I truly TRULY hope that you either A) never vote or B) commit suicide
This was unethical and excessive.
Cops are people too, and they make mistakes.
Were they to twist his arm or accidentally pull it out of the socket, or if they mistook something he had in his hands as a weapon, this could be reasonable and forgivable.
But that did not happen.
They tazed him simply to shut him up and get him out of there faster.
Thats just plain fucked.
After all the tazer incidents I've been hearing about over the past few years, I'm beginning to think that cops should not be allowed to carry tazer weapons at all.
...unless they'd be willing to be tazed so that they understand what kind of force they are unleashing on these people lol.
If you believe that it is, I truly TRULY hope that you either A) never vote or B) commit suicide
This was unethical and excessive.
Cops are people too, and they make mistakes.
Were they to twist his arm or accidentally pull it out of the socket, or if they mistook something he had in his hands as a weapon, this could be reasonable and forgivable.
But that did not happen.
They tazed him simply to shut him up and get him out of there faster.
Thats just plain fucked.
After all the tazer incidents I've been hearing about over the past few years, I'm beginning to think that cops should not be allowed to carry tazer weapons at all.
...unless they'd be willing to be tazed so that they understand what kind of force they are unleashing on these people lol.