Tanker Fuel quest

killap

killap

Bear Dude
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I was having a discussion with someone on the Bethesda Fallout forums about obtaining the fuel. He was using my patch and ran into a game stopping but with the tanker. Here was his problem.

-He sent fuel from the Shi to the Hubbologists.
-He helped Badger find his GF and then asked for the verti plans from the Hubologists to give to the Shi. He did not have the tanker quest open and thus could not have Badger get both (fuel and plans) from the Hubbologists.
-He killed all the Hubologists thus preventing him from getting fuel from Dave Handy.

His only option now would be to use the chemistry terminal which before my patch could have given fuel to BOTH the tanker and the Hubbologists. According to Per's guide this was a bug since there is only enough fuel for ONE party and the mainframe will realize after you move the fuel to one place that there isn't any left. The chemistry terminal never would, however.

Did this user find a way to break the game or was the chemistry terminal intentional?
 
It's not a bug that you cannot in all scenarios get fuel for the tanker, if that's what you're asking. If you go into SF, kill everyone and destroy everything, you're stuck. That makes sense. I seriously doubt that if the designers meant to leave a door open at all times, that an obscure "deliberate oversight" would have been their best option.
 
Per said:
It's not a bug that you cannot in all scenarios get fuel for the tanker, if that's what you're asking. If you go into SF, kill everyone and destroy everything, you're stuck. That makes sense. I seriously doubt that if the designers meant to leave a door open at all times, that an obscure "deliberate oversight" would have been their best option.
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Makes sense. I am not refuting anything but just curious. Thanks for the comments Per.

In his current state, he is truly stuck though, yes?
 
I was thinking more about this as I went to bed last night.

I don't think killing everyone in San Fran would prevent you from finishing the game. You can still get all the fuel/fob quests from the tanker computer and then use the Shi terminal to transfer the fuel to the tanker. Navarro's location can be obtained from Hakunin in the event Matt was killed. Is my line of thinking correct here?
 
Killing everyone shouldn't prevent you from finishing the game, assuming that's the first thing you do after you set foot in San Francisco -- you can always use the chemistry terminal in the Shi base. Having said that, I don't know if you need to have the Fuel the Tanker quest active before that option shows up in the chemistry terminal. And yes, you can get Navarro's location from the dying Hakunin.

In this particular case, though, I think your friend is stuck. Fuel is gone from the Shi, so no more Shi chemistry terminal. Badger has already done his favour. Dave Handy is toast. And I think Matt's BOS quest is already done (if Badger has stolen the plans from the Hubologists, then he already went to Navarro to retrieve the plans in the first place). So unless there is a way to use a Hubologist terminal to transfer the fuel, it's game over.

That being said, here's another angle to consider the issue. Is it really the case that there should only be enough fuel for ONE party? I always thought the answer to that question is no.

Why?

Because of the endings to the Hubologists that was cut from the game. One of the endings implied that they had fuel, but forgot to check the pressure seal (or something like that), and so the shuttle blew up shortly after lift off. This implies that they somehow got the fuel from the Shi. But, in order to view the movie, the player has to somehow be able to finish the game, which implies that the player has to somehow successfully be able to transfer fuel to the tanker. So it seems to me that maybe it's the mainframe that's bugged, and not the chemistry stations.

Or one more possibility: maybe the game designers had indeed intended to give enough fuel to fill up either the shuttle or the tanker, and not both. In the event that the player gave fuel to the Hubologist, then the player would have been able to get to the Enclave via Vertibird. However, since the Vertibird-entry-to-the-Oil-Rig angle was cut, this left a plothole in San Francisco which they (rather clumsily) filled in by allowing the chemistry station to transfer to both the tanker and the shuttle. Would be a good idea to implement into your add-on. :D

-- The Haen.
 
Or one more possibility: maybe the game designers had indeed intended to give enough fuel to fill up either the shuttle or the tanker, and not both. In the event that the player gave fuel to the Hubologist, then the player would have been able to get to the Enclave via Vertibird. However, since the Vertibird-entry-to-the-Oil-Rig angle was cut, this left a plothole in San Francisco which they (rather clumsily) filled in by allowing the chemistry station to transfer to both the tanker and the shuttle. Would be a good idea to implement into your add-on.
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I am inclined to agree with Haen's view, but does this mean for Killap's patch; if implementing the Vertibird path is out, that anything that leads to the player not being able to fuel the tanker that it should trigger the "you were unable to save Arroyo" ending immediately?
 
Glovz said:
I am inclined to agree with Haen's view, but does this mean for Killap's patch; if implementing the Vertibird path is out, that anything that leads to the player not being able to fuel the tanker that it should trigger the "you were unable to save Arroyo" ending immediately?
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I don't know if that'd be the best way to go about it. Of course, killap has final say, but this would be my suggestion:

1) For the upcoming expansion/add-on pack, implement the Vertibird-to-Oil-Rig scenario. Off the top of my head, I believe there is already a .msg file written for this event, so it should be relatively easy to add a "use" function to a Vertibird and allow the player to fly to the Enclave. And the player does not even need to learn how to fly the VertiBird -- according to the .msg file, the VertiBird was somehow "locked" to fly to the Oil Rig.

However, there'll need to be new levels in the oil rig, since the player will now be going from topside into the interior instead of infiltrating from the basement level. I suppose that the closed off area in the reactor level with the inaccessible lift was where the player was intended to end up if he or she had taken the VertiBird approach. Needless to say, this will be a massive undertaking, with the new scripts, new maps, new ending (I don't suppose you could save your tribe if you arrive in a VertiBird...), and everything else.

2) For the unofficial patch, I'll simply recommend that a function be added in the Hubologist's terminal for them to transfer the fuel back to the tanker or the Shi. That's probably the easiest way to get around the stuck-in-San-Francisco-with-no-Fuel problem.

-- The Haen.
 
Damn it, I just got stuck the same way :x
I dunno if the chemistry terminal was a bug, but it's only rational to be able to move the fuel from the shuttle to the tank. Is there any way to I can fix this now? Like even a cheat or something.

You should atleast be able to ask Dave Handy the question that leads to Vikky and eventually to him transfering the fuel to the Tanker any time you wish, becouse otherwise you get stuck even if you don't kill the anybody. Like if you didn't ask Hany that question (I think it was where's he from or something) the first time you spoke to him, the ask Badger to get the plans and give the Hubbos the fuel you're fucked. I find the possibility for this to be done intentionaly to be as doubteous as the designers leaving an obscure "deliberate oversight" as a backdoor.
 
slit said:
Damn it, I just got stuck the same way :x
I dunno if the chemistry terminal was a bug, but it's only rational to be able to move the fuel from the shuttle to the tank. Is there any way to I can fix this now?
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Interesting, two people who fell in the same hole. I thought this case was rare. Are you sure you cannot get it from Badger or Dave Handy? If not, I can quickly write up something (will take less than a minute) to get you out of the problem. I am not at home right now and thus won't be able to get this to you until late tonight or sometime tomorrow.
 
Well after I gave the fuel to the Rocket Scientist the only thing I could tell Dave was "Not in any way". And badger was killed by the Shi. To my understanding if you do the following before fueling the tank you're screwed.
1. Give the vertibird plans to the Shi.
2. Have Badger get them and evantually get whacked.
3. Do the fuel quest for the Hubbos.
4. Don't ask Dave what brough him down from Canada.

It would be cool if you could do something quick, otherwise I could just start from the begining of San Fran, it's not too much.


PS. Yea, about Dave, you can only ask him the first time you talk to him what brough him down from Canada, which leads to Vikky and him doing you a favor. Otherwise the next time you speak to him he'll ask what he can do for you, but won't really want do do anything if you ask him to.
 
slit said:
Well after I gave the fuel to the Rocket Scientist the only thing I could tell Dave was "Not in any way". And badger was killed by the Shi. To my understanding if you do the following before fueling the tank you're screwed.
1. Give the plans to the Shi.
2. Have Badger get them and evantually get whacked.
3. Do the fuel quest for the Hubbos.
4. I'm not sure about Dave. I'm sure that after I gave the Rocket Scientis the fuel I couldn't spek to him. The only thing I could say to him led out of the conversation.

It would be cool if you could do something easy, otherwise I could just start from the begining of San Fran, it's not too much.
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Well if you killed the Hubologists then you would be in the same spot as the person I talked about at the beginning of this thread. I am pretty sure you can get the fuel from Dave. I think you have to talk about the lady celebrity since he likes her. It may have been a one time deal though. Check Per's guide about this.

Worst case I will send the script when I get home.

EDIT:
slit said:
PS. Yea, about Dave, you can only ask him the first time you talk to him what brough him down from Canada, which leads to Vikky and him doing you a favor. Otherwise the next time you speak to him he'll ask what he can do for you, but won't really want do do anything if you ask him to.
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Guess you added this after I first responded to your message. I guess I was right about it being a one time deal. Alright, I shall send the script when I get home.
 
I was going to reply to this before, but now I don't remember exactly what it was. However, consider the fact that dropping the navigational computer part in the desert will get you stuck just as much as killing everyone in SF and formatting all computers. Is there really a need to cover every case?

In any case, making it so that you can always ask Dave Handy for multiple favours after you resolve the Vikki thing on a positive note should help with the evil path (you formatted the Shi computer). However, wouldn't a true bastard also solve that thing evilly? Hmm...
 
The problem with the Vikky thing is that if you don't involve her the first time you hava a conversation with Dave Handy you lose the chance to get any favors done. Chances are the first time you speak do Dave you don't even know Vikky exists. If Dave does only one favor i think that's perfectly fine.

My problem isn't that I killed everyone in San Fran, it's that I couldn't ask Dave to switch the fuel before I killed him. And I don't think missing one conversation line should end you game.


Here's how the conversation with Dave goes.

Dave: How can I help you.
1. Who are you.
2. What do you do here?
3. In no way. Thanks.

If you ask 1:
Dave: I'm Dave, I'm down from Canadat:
1. What do you do here -> you're fucked, every possibility from here on leads to Dave only asking "How can I help" to which you eather say "In no way" or ask a fovaro which Dave refuses.
2. What brought you down? -> that's the one
3. Bye. -> fucked

If you go 2 or 3 you can still ask 1 later, but if you don't ask what brought him down right away is end game (in my case atleast). And if you gave the plans to the Shi first, the only thing to do is ask Badger to steal them, which get's him killed, and there's no way to transfer the fuel before that, becouse you must steal the plans before you get the Hubbo fuel quest, which leaves you with Dave only to transfer the fuel, which he won't do.

And assuming there were stuff like the missing quest for the Vertibird transport to Navvaro, I think it safe to assume that this whole thing IS indeed a designer screw up and you're not supposed to get stucked this way. Which doesn't mean that the chemistry terminal was a backdoor and not a bug. On the other hand, if you dropped the Navcom in the desert, I think it was prety muck intented to get stuck (it's pretty cool to leave NPC's that piss you off also).
 
slit said:
And assuming there were stuff like the missing quest for the Vertibird transport to Navvaro, I think it safe to assume that this whole thing IS indeed a designer screw up and you're not supposed to get stucked this way. Which doesn't mean that the chemistry terminal was a backdoor and not a bug. On the other hand, if you dropped the Navcom in the desert, I think it was prety muck intented to get stuck (it's pretty cool to leave NPC's that piss you off also).
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I'm pretty sure you are right. In any case, grab this file. Extract it to your Fallout2/data folder. Then go to the Hubologist computer and transfer the fuel to the Tanker.

http://zcn.phix-it.com/fallout2/fuel_quest_fix.rar

As for Dave, I am not sure exactly how I will approach him. He is one of the few scripts that sets a local var when you ask him specific things. Most characters you can keep asking the same questions over and over.
 
Okay so this is somewhat related to this topic, although not for the fact that I'm not using Killap's patch, but the Seraphim Patch v1.04. But I still thought it would be better to post here than make a new thread(could be wrong though).

So, all the times I've finished the game I've done the Shis missions and have had no problem with the fuel/tanker. However this time I decided to do the Hubo-missions, and problems started to occur. So this is the chronological order what I did and in what order in San Fran so you won't get too confused :roll:

- Get the Vertibird Plans to BoS
- Give the Vertibird Plans to the leader-person of Shi(don't remember the name)
- Join the Hubos and get the mission to 'kill' the Emperor and the leader(so no fuel-mission for me)
- Do that mission, kill people in the streets of San Fran.
- Also saved Badgers gf from the basement-floor

So, now I can't do following missions

- Get the Vertibird Plans to Hubologists
- Get fuel for the spaceship from the Shi to Hubologists(can't get the mission)

However I can do the mission to kill Badger though, and I did that but it didn't help in getting the fuel from Hubologists. As it is not enough, I talked to Dave Handy and used the 'Who are you.'-dialog -> I'm fucked.

So the bottom line is that I can't seem to get the fuel from Hubos, I can't seem to get it eather from Badger, and I can't get it anymore neither Dave or Shi. Also I tried that fuel_quest_fix.rar-file but as it's not the same patch I can't get the fuel through Hubologists main computer in the room where that scientist is or I can't get an option for Badger to get it when he hacks the Hubologists. So have I completely fuxored my chances to finish my current game?

Thanks for any info and sorry if I should've made a new thread instead.
 
humppa said:
- Get the Vertibird Plans to BoS
- Give the Vertibird Plans to the leader-person of Shi(don't remember the name)
- Join the Hubos and get the mission to 'kill' the Emperor and the leader(so no fuel-mission for me)
- Do that mission, kill people in the streets of San Fran.
- Also saved Badgers gf from the basement-floor

So, now I can't do following missions

- Get the Vertibird Plans to Hubologists
- Get fuel for the spaceship from the Shi to Hubologists(can't get the mission)
Click to expand...
Since you haven't given fuel to the Hubologists yet, it makes sense my fix didn't do anything. As for the missions you can't do...Did you try the Chemistry terminal (I think that is the one) to transfer fuel to either the spaceship or the Tanker? Do you even know about the need for fuel for the tanker or the spaceship? You first need to know that fuel is needed before actually transferring it.
 
Yes the character is aware of the need of fuel because I have talked to the captain. When I talk to Badger the conversation goes like:

"I'm looking for some fuel."
"The Shi have all the fuel around here. I could take a gander at their mainframe for you."
"Can you?"
"Yeah but it'll cost you."
"What's your price?"
"I think I like you enough that I can do it for you now. Who do you want me to visit?"

Then two options..

"The Shi."
"You want me to hack a formatted computer. The information is gone. It ain't gonna happen."

Or

"The hubologists."

"Like stealing a candy from a baby. They will never find me. What do you want from them"
and the only option that comes is "Never mind."

However I'm not aware of any chemical terminal. I've read some walkthroughs/threads but I haven't found any mention about it before. I'll search for some more, thanks.

EDIT: So what I found is that with science high enough(got like 101) you can move the oil from the terminal. However I'm not sure where the terminal is located. In the Shi palace in the down right corner there are those four monitors named terminals. When I 'use' them it does nothing, and when I use science it just gives "You fail to learn anything", and same is with Myron. Am I trying to use the wrong terminal?

EDIT2: Yeah I am at the wrong place, however can I divert the fuel to the tanker when the mainframe is formatted? I found Biology and Physics Workstations but can't find the Chemistry-one. heh
 
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