The Decline of Obsidian?

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Another thing that saddens me:
MCA mentioned about Feargus having stupid ideas about changing story and content in games. About the laziness and reluctance to do any actual work or object to bad ideas by other people (like Jones and Darren). That not only put pressure on the developers and delays the entire game. But it also makes the game worst.

I am sad to think of what would games like Fallout 1/2/NV, SW:KOTOR 2 or even Neverwinter Nights 2 be without those stupid ideas, cuts and objections from someone without any good creativity and without understanding games. And without the work of those that don't care to do any work...
...Those games would only have been even more awesome than they are. And that makes me sad.
 
Odd thought... Feargus was the one who added the .233 pistol in the Hub; (or so I've read).

*People change in 20 years...
 
Jabberwok said:
...especially if there is money involved. As far as I can tell, success and power have had negative effects on plenty of my favorite artists, from film to music to video games.
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Yeah... Like Feargus having his wife on Obsidian's payroll, when she's not part of the company.



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From my experience, people in administration positions where they are also the owners of the company tend to steer towards getting lazier and dumber with the years.
 
Jabberwok said:
...especially if there is money involved. As far as I can tell, success and power have had negative effects on plenty of my favorite artists, from film to music to video games.
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It's easy to get lost though, to be fair you watch the news, the media and you happen to frequent certain circles, presse events and so on and you constantly see games like Skyrim, CoD and many other franchises that fall in a very similar style and they get all the prices, praise and huge money while any project that isn't like those gets criticised for really small stuff. Like when Skyrim was released suddenly everyone noticed hey! Oblivion was a flawed game with lots of bugs! But Skyrim is awesome and perfect now! You had some people literally changing their opinion like 180°.

I think this kind of stuff really can mess with your mind and perception over the decades.
 
Walpknut said:
From my experience, people in administration positions where they are also the owners of the company tend to steer towards getting lazier and dumber with the years.
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The sad thing is that it seems that these people were already like that since their Interplay days.
Interplay could still be a thing today if only they cared and actually understood stuff like finances, game design, let the writers do their job without interference and weren't lazy. :sad:
 
Avellone is weird, he strategically outted all this info on Pillars of Eternity 2 release window, yet he was complaining on twitter about POE2 not getting the high review score it deserved.
 
Walpknut said:
Avellone is weird, he strategically outted all this info on Pillars of Eternity 2 release window, yet he was complaining on twitter about POE2 not getting the high review score it deserved.
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It's one of those things where we really would need to know him in person and see his real personality to tell if he was just venting/sperging out over some shit or being malicious about the timing. Either way he has a right to say what he did and still want the team to not get fucked over. If anything now people know the game was coming out now. I didn't. I hate fantasy anyway but now I know.
 
Don't get me wrong, I think him outing this info is good, but the timing was really suspect.
 
Walpknut said:
Don't get me wrong, I think him outing this info is good, but the timing was really suspect.
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Well, the interview was done ages ago, but was published now. Unless we delve into the conspiracy theories, timing is Fairfax'/Codex responsibility, not MCAs. He might have just used (an admittedly timely) opportunity to start his AMA on Codex.

Timing might be suspect, or it might not be - but that is largely irrelevant if you ask me. Avellone airing this at whatever point in time would be inconvenient for Obsidian and their managment. Obsidian is always working on something, be it a new game or DLC for existing stuff, so there's no good timing for whistleblowing if you look it from the perspective of projects' well-being.

That being said, opening the can of worms one week before PoE2 is released is seemingly the worst possible timing for Obsidian, but in the end I doubt it had any effect - and MCA might have known that would happen. He was posting on a controversial forum, and no major gaming outlet has covered his story - not yet, at least. Pre-orders were already placed, journos were ready to write their reviews and public was eager for another Obsidian RPG, so his posting on Codex really has a minor effect.

In the meantime, PoE2 is a bestseller already on Steam and GOG, so it's not like his statements hurt game's sales. In fact, I think that this approach had minimal possible damage to PoE2. Had this happened, say, few months back and the media storm had ensued, Obsidian's approval in the eyes of the public might have worsened, hurting the sales way more - but a week before release with no real media coverage? Nah, they are good.
Besides, I wager 95% of gamers out there don't really give a shit about drama of this type, and it has no effect on their willingness to spend their cash on a new title. Not to mention that many people who never really cared about any of this now think MCA is wrong and unprofessional, so they support Obsidian.

All in all, MCA's damage to Obsidian at this time is minimal. It will probably remain so unless something big changes - like somebody pressing charges. Reading through all of this, Paradox has the biggest reason to do that - whether they'll go to court is a different issue.

That being said, there might be serious damage in the long-term. Or something good will happen in Obsidian regarding the shady business. Or nothing might happen. We shall see.

Either way, there is no good time for whistleblowing, but I'm happy this is happening. MCA's real motivation is largely irrelevant (if there is any). If this stuff is true (and I believe it is), it's good that we learned about it.
 
Walpknut said:
Don't get me wrong, I think him outing this info is good, but the timing was really suspect.
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He said he mentioned this only "now" because the Codex was the first ones to ask about it on the interview.
It is the old case of "Why didn't you say anything sooner?" - "I didn't say anything sooner because you didn't ask about it sooner.".

Like Atomkilla said, the Codex only posted the interview now, although it was made a while ago. :wtf:
 
Risewild said:
He said he mentioned this only "now" because the Codex was the first ones to ask about it on the interview.
It is the old case of "Why didn't you say anything sooner?" - "I didn't say anything sooner because you didn't ask about it sooner.".

Like Atomkilla said, the Codex only posted the interview now, although it was made a while ago. :wtf:
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Could be a Codexian plot to take over the internet.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97103-chris-avellone-the-final-frontier/

This thread got locked....ahh mod says it is not a ban on the topic though so good deal.

This post by Zoraraptor is interesting.

It looks far more like he asked for an early contract release and didn't like the terms offered for it so took that as being 'unfair' and leveraging whatever his situation was, and worked out his contract doing stuff for other people. If he wanted an early release from a contract then he has to accept that the company he works may want something in return- and that's especially true if you're obviously going off to work at the opposition. That isn't a personal slight, it's standard practice since you've made an agreement, you're asking to vary its terms and they're not obligated to indulge you in any way. Indeed, depending on how the company is set up indulging friends to vary their contracts may well be exactly the illegal/ unethical treatment Chris rails against.



I actually started out supporting Chris as well, but everything he's said since has steadily reduced that support to the point I wish he's shut up about anything other than rpgs, if only for his own sake. I say it every time, but he comes across as That Guy At Work who thinks management hates him and everything is set up against him and everyone else at the company hates him too. They usually do- because he wanders around seeking support for his grievances and basically not doing his job while making it unpleasant for everyone else. He usually has a point with his grievance, but blows it out of proportion. I have some personal experience of that sort, my dad always ranted about how his employer was crap and the management was crap etc. I ended up working with him for a while (because no one else would, which is a bit of a spoiler) and you know what? Management was crap and incompetent and was actively trying to get him fired or to resign. You know what else? My dad made life unpleasant for just about everyone else there whether they were management or not and was deliberately and pointlessly obstructive all while claiming he was fighting the good fight. He did do his job, more or less, but spent so much time arguing with management that he'd stopped doing it well.



Just a reminder, by Chris's own admission he had one friend left at Obsidian, out of 150ish employees. That's not a number that says that management was the only problem.
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Walpknut said:
Don't get me wrong, I think him outing this info is good, but the timing was really suspect.
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Yeah, as someone mentioned, I think at least parts of the Q&A took place over years. Was it even Avellone's call when to put it up on the Codex?
 
Crni Vuk said:
It's easy to get lost though, to be fair you watch the news, the media and you happen to frequent certain circles, presse events and so on and you constantly see games like Skyrim, CoD and many other franchises that fall in a very similar style and they get all the prices, praise and huge money while any project that isn't like those gets criticised for really small stuff. Like when Skyrim was released suddenly everyone noticed hey! Oblivion was a flawed game with lots of bugs! But Skyrim is awesome and perfect now! You had some people literally changing their opinion like 180°.

I think this kind of stuff really can mess with your mind and perception over the decades.
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Yeah, especially if you're further up the chain from actually creating the product your team is responsible for. But any good artist in any medium should be able to recognize the difference between financial success and quality. And ideally, a good team should be made of good artists. And anyone who isn't part of that should not be exercising creative influence. But that's sort of inevitable with large companies and projects.

Not that there aren't plenty of terrible, derivative indies as well. But the amount of talent wasted must scale upward with the amount of money invested.

I can't resist the urge to mention that Skyrim was a near instantaneous disappointment for me when I finally played it. It's clear that writing and good design are not important in big budget entertainment, when they can simply throw more money at the product to boost sales. But Obsidian-sized companies probably can't afford to survive that way.
 
Jabberwok said:
Yeah, as someone mentioned, I think at least parts of the Q&A took place over years. Was it even Avellone's call when to put it up on the Codex?
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All the really juicy stuff is from his posts on the newsitem, not the original interview, so it's not really that.
 
PlanHex said:
All the really juicy stuff is from his posts on the newsitem, not the original interview, so it's not really that.
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But he is only replying now because people ask stuff about what was on the interview. So he comes by and answers those questions.

I bet if the interview was posted ages ago, he would have talked about it then too. Because it would be when people would ask him follow up questions :postviper:.

If he really wanted to have a specific "timing", then he could have just made a giant rant article/thread on the Codex, or ask some gaming site for a rant interview where he would spill the beans, or make a giant fuss all over the "gaming media" industry. :tired:
 
Doesn't matter. Kotaku and Polygon will be on it soon and the whole thing will kick back up again.

:dance:
 
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