The Epic Game Store (A Thread For Our Thoughts, Feelings and Rants)

RangerBoo

RangerBoo

Resident Schizo Poster
It's no surprise that many of us have mix feelings about the Epic Game Store. Many of us hate it because Epic is trying to bring the console wars to PC while others believe the same thing as YongYea, that Epic will improve in time as Steam wasn't all sunshine and roses when it first started.

Personally, I despise everything about the Epic Game Store and what it represents. Tim Sweeney doesn't want competition. If he did then he wouldn't want to do game store exclusives. He wants Epic to become the Wal-Mart of PC gaming and Wal-Mart isn't exactly known for it's quality. This is after all coming from the guy who said that his store will never have user reviews (cuz that sure as hell isn't anti-consumer or anything!). This and that Fortnite money maybe why the likes of 2K CEO Strauss Zelnick (who can't live without the blood of virgins and children to sustain his life essences daily) has pretty much stated that all 2K published games will be Epic exclusives. The big wigs in the Western game industry think that we are all little pay pigs that will buy the next shiny object without a care or a damn. Although, I think they underestimated PC gamers: https://nichegamer.com/2019/05/22/m...-absolute-majority-of-sales-were-on-consoles/
This is interesting to me as Metro became a best selling franchise thanks in part to the PC gaming community. It looks like now though that those PC gamers are sticking it to publishers like Deep Sliver, who made THQ Nordic make their game a Epic exclusive or those same PC gamers decided to buy the game for console instead. Which probably helped contribute to Metro: Exodus having a high console sale but weak PC sale. If I were a publisher thinking of making a anticipated game be a Epic exclusive, I would be a little nervous right now and would be having second thoughts.

What do you guys think? Feel free to comment or disagree and tell us why.
 
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It's implied that the original metric for Metro's PC sales were including Steam in the beginning of the year before the bait and switch (around January?).

Idk what Deep Silver was thinking, really. THQ nordic was caught by surprise and seemed to want to dodge the sales-performance question entirely for another title that was also made EGS exclusive.

EGS has the pockets to persist, though. Maybe the platform will even get good since even Steam was pretty bad when it launched. The only quandary is why they're competing with 2007 Steam :confused:. Who knows anymore. Tim Sweeney might swing by in /r/games and inform us when he's not beating newborn babies with a club, or dabbing on children in Fortnite.
 
I'm not planning to ever buy anything on Epic as I don't agree with their methods and games there are noticably pricier for me (Epic doesn't support local currencies and customer has to take care of transfer fees).

I find it very interesting that they haven't released any numbers about their sales (aside from claim that Exodus sold 2,5x more copies than Last Light in similar time frame. Considering that Metro games got popular with the release of Redux versions means that the sales on Epic aren't that good).

It's a shame honestly as they could have done something good for PC community by actually trying to compete with Steam.
 
I heard someone say before that EGS is great for publishers and developers, not consumers. And as long as that is who they cater to I don't see why anyone would want to support them. If you're on PC you got got tens of thousands of games you could play, but you absolutely have to have a game on EGS? I mean if you don't care about any of the EGS stuff then I guess go ahead but if you do care, even a little, about the fishy shit going on around EGS then why can't you just wait a while? Game ain't going to disappear if you don't act quick like some sorta limited edition sale.

I can't stand exclusivity and I already find it a pain to use UPlay and Origin for certain stuff. I heard some CEO or whatever from Epic go "oh we won't allow *gasp* PORN GAMES on OUR store!" like a puritan, I'm glad Steam is finally allowing more steamy(huehuehue) games on their market and hearing Epic say that just feels like absolute regression to me. (I only wish Steam would separate the adult content to a 18+ section that's completely separated from the main market as I understand a studio not wanting their fishing game to sit right next to a game about school shooters and a tit-shot simulator) They won't allow user reviews which is all kinds of hell nawh. And there's definitely other stuff I can't remember just now.

So they're puritans, they're dividing the consumers into camps and they won't allow user criticism cause that might affect sales of devs/pubs.

And there's a couple of other random things I'd just like to get off my chest.

The store is feature incomplete, right?
...
Why?
If the store is feature incomplete then wouldn't it make sense to post-pone the release of the store until it is functional? Why was this such a rush job?

I remember hearing them say something along the lines of "our store is great because since developers get more money for their games then it will be good for the consumers in the long run too!" Oh, so because publishers and devs get more cashmoney that means that they will meet their sales expectations? Right, so that means we can get rid of micro-transactions, pre-order bonuses, cut content resold and other shady shit, right? Right...? Unless I see a tangible change from devs and pubs who've put their games on their store then this is either a lie or a completely fucking idiotic statement and it makes me wonder how the hell whoever said it still has their job. The big ones that want ALL the money in the world isn't going to change shit. So how does more money for the devs/pubs make it better for the consumer? Bigger games? What, more sandboxes with camps to liberate and towers to climb? Horse-testicles that shrink? Fuck off with that redundancy.

The one and only thing that they're doing that is actually pro-consumer is the free games every month.
And personally, I'm fine with my colossal backlog as it is and even if was in desperate need for free games I think I'll pass on a store who's part shareholder is Tencent who I do not trust in the slightest.

EGS is a bucket full of "why". I don't see any reason for its existence apart from Epic wanting to assert dominance in the PC market. And all of their talk about how good they are is completely hollow as they have literally nothing to back it up with. Oh sorry, one thing, free games, I wonder how long that will last. :rolleyes:

I've been watching youtube commentators who talk about gaming news report on a lot of EGS news and... To anyone else who's done the same, does Epic come across as childish to you? Cause they do to me. They keep throwing little bitchfits about how Steam, who's surprisingly consumer friendly, is actually the devil and no one should trust them and Steam smells like doodoo. They pour gasoline over this bridge and then go and grab another can to pour some more and then go and grab ANOTHER can so they can pour some more and then they set fire to it... And then they go grab another one to chuck at the inferno.

And I don't get it. If anything I'd say that if EGS doesn't succeed then anyone who's teamed up with them will have some 'splaining to do to Mrs Steam when they come crawling back with their tails between their legs. And like, if I was in charge of Steam there's no way in hell I'd ever allow Epic back on the store. And hell I'd even consider doing the same for Gearbox after all the tantrums that whatshisface (randy pitchford?) has thrown

There's definitely things you can criticize Steam for but the way that Epic is constantly deriding them, I dunno, it makes me wonder if that's just a tactic to divert attention away from their own piss poor store. And to throw this level of shade at Steam makes me wonder what has caused this kind of toxicity.

And finally, the %.
Someone who's pissing me off whenever he talks about it is ReviewTechUSA on Youtube going "hey, Steam, just lower your take to 12% and meet Epic" because I just don't think it is that simple. EGS doesn't need to take a big cut because they got all that Fortnite money overflowing their coffers at the moment and their store is in its infancy which means it is probably not too costly to run. But Steam? Steam is fucking massive. Imagine how many employees work on it. I know some say that the costumer support is shit but it doesn't surprise me when they have to provide costumer support for tens of thousands of games, and that's excluding "crappy games" btw. Steam lowered their take from 30% to 25% from what I heard. Well, that's not even close to comparable to Epic, right? Well... Why? Why would Steam lower it a measly 5%?

Well, here's just a theory and it ain't a game theory; What if Steam can't lower it because that'd affect their business platform in a very negative way? Hell, think about this, right. Screenshot galleries. Screenshots aren't that big but out of the millions of people who use Steam how many of them have screenshots uploaded to their galleries? I'm sure that that takes maintenance to care for as well as server space to hold. I dunno how much but I doubt it's nothing. Imagine all the workshop content that people can upload. The forums (discussions), the news pages (which sometimes also include pictures.) think of the vast sea of games on their platform that they have to allow people to download. Now think of the individual store pages and what they contain. User reviews, pictures and videos.

I don't know the details of all of this or how much it costs to maintain but if Steam is only able to lower it by 5% and then go radiosilent then there has to be a reason for it. And maybe that's because they can't lower it unless they're willing to trim some fat AND flesh off the bone. And coming out and saying it? That very well might drive others to EGS as Steam then pretty much confirms that "yes, you're not going to get a better cut with us, sorry."

I just don't think it is as simple as "come on bruh, just lower the % to meet Epic".

Now whether it is a good thing that steam has to have server space and make sure features work such as badges and trading cards is up for discussion. Maybe that's fat that should be trimmed. But I don't think they can come close to meeting Epic's 12% unless they're willing to sever some flesh along with the fat, and who knows what that might mean.

To me, what Epic has said and done and what they haven't done has shifted me from a cautious neutrality to strictly non-trusting. I don't buy games new anyway so I can wait, and I'm fine with blacklisting any game on there (including Outer Worlds) from future potential purchases. I have more than enough games to play as it is. You wanna jump in bed with Epic? All right, well then I just won't buy your game. Ever. I don't care if the devs didn't want it and the pubs did, I do not want to give a single cent to the pubs for that. Doesn't mean I won't consider games from pubs/devs in the future so long as they don't pull this shit agian. But anything with an exclusivity deal on Epic (which includes stuff that is on Epic and Microsoft Store but purposefully exclude Steam's market) I'll avoid like the plague.
 
I don't plan to use it, and I'm mostly just irritated at the year long exclusives.

GoG Galaxy is getting a big new update though and that looks cool. A lot of syncing between game clients, so if I can I'll probably start moving over to that instead of Steam if it's more convenient.
 
Epic game store is not the only competition Steam will have (besides GOG.com).

The Russians are entering the global gaming digital platform too:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ibution-space-with-launch-of-new-gaming-brand
Russian internet giant Mail.ru today revealed its new gaming brand, My.Games, which includes plans to enter the international digital distribution space.

Founded in 2009, Mail.ru has grown to one of the biggest internet businesses in Russia, with games accounting for an increasingly large portion of revenue.

The My.Games announcement comes after a period of substantial growth from the Mail.ru gaming division which grossed over $100 million in Q1 2019.

In an email to GamesIndustry.biz, marketing director Elena Grigoryan revealed plans to capitalise on the company's success in Russia with the development of a new digital distribution platform.

"We have several exciting gaming projects that will grow My.Games," she said.

"Firstly, we have our own PC platform, Games.mail.ru, which is currently one of the most popular in Russia. We have more than 12.5 million active users per month, so are successfully competing with Steam.

"We are currently developing a new platform, specifically for the international market, which will be one of our top priorities for digital distribution. We'll be bringing these platforms closer together in the future.

"For Western developers, our platform is a gateway to reaching Russian gamers. And for local developers, it's a platform to get your game in front of a truly internationally.

Comprised of ten regional offices, 1,500 staff, and 13 developer studios, Mail.Ru will fold all existing gaming operations into the My.Games brand.

My.Games will develop, publish, and fund new titles such as Lost Ark, Conqueror's Blade, and the mobile release of Warface.

The launch of My.Games makes it one of the top 50 gaming companies in the world by revenue, based on data from AppAnnie, Superdata, and company financial reports.
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Mr Fish said:
Well, here's just a theory and it ain't a game theory; What if Steam can't lower it because that'd affect their business platform in a very negative way?
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I don't know how true this is but spoiler to avoid walls of text
Back in March, Valve employees gave a talk at GDC where they revealed some details about the Steam infrastructure. Apparently Valve Software has a presence in 30 major cities around the world, and they have their own direct connections between these locations that are independent of the public internet. It’s like a backup internet running on top of the public net. This network handles content delivery and gameplay data. The advantage of this setup is that it insulates Steam users from internet congestion. The example the developers gave at the talk is the release of an episode of Game of Thrones, when millions of people all begin streaming HD video at the same time. Gamers might still experience delays due to local congestion thanks to lousy internet providers, but Valve’s backup internet gives everyone the best chance to enjoy speedy downloads and lag-free multiplayer games.

Last year, the Valve network handled two exabytes of data. That exceeds the entire global internet traffic load of 2003. If some node of this network were to fail, or if someone were to attack it, the system is designed to seamlessly reroute Steam’s traffic over to the regular internet until the problem is resolved. Valve has built a network with a global presence, multiple layers of redundancy, and staggering throughput. This network is available and free to use for any game that releases on Steam, regardless of where that game was sold. This means that if you release a game on Steam and also on GoG, copies sold on GoG still can enjoy the multiplayer benefits of Valve’s content delivery system. This is pretty generous considering how easy it is to get a game on Steam these days. It means almost any starry-eyed developer has free access to this massive system for their game.
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The writer of the article went on to say
I agree with Sweeney’s principle that Valve takes a huge cut and the market could use some more competition. Not every game needs the vast resources of Valve’s sprawling global infrastructure. If I make a simple single-player 2D game and I don’t have the means to localize the game for non-English audiences, then I don’t need the high-speed content delivery network or multiplayer framework, and I don’t benefit from the ability to access foreign markets. I’m probably running a small operation with just two or three people. When Valve keeps 30% of my game’s sales price, they’re taking money that’s important to me but peanuts to them. They’re taking money I need in exchange for a lot of services I don’t. It would be great if Steam offered some sort of bargain for those of us who don’t need or want the full slate of Steam features.
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So, while I don't like Steam, they do seem to have a reason to need to take a 30% cut compared to Epic who offers very little or none of this. I think Epic offers some support in cross platform play though? Not really sure how that works.

These quotes are from: https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/2019/05/07/why-steam-cant-meet-epics-price-challenge/
 
That's very interesting, thanks for providing the info.

Well, so the question would then be; should Valve cut some of these things that are costly for them just so that they can lower their cut?
Cause it will affect how the platform operates. And it very well might be negative for the user experience.

Mostly, I want people who are engaged in this discussion to take things like that into consideration and stop simplifying everything. Going from 30% to 12% means cutting over half of their revenue. That's not chump change and there's definitely a reason for why they can't do it.

I don't like this part of what the writer said though "and I don’t benefit from the ability to access foreign markets". Most gamers in Sweden understand English and play games in english so not wanting to tap into foreign markets sounds dumb. Does the writer think that there isn't a significant portion of english speakers who aren't native? I'm going to call out his ignorance by ignorantly saying he's a 'murican so what am I expecting from a burger. :V
 
Mr Fish said:
I don't like this part of what the writer said though "and I don’t benefit from the ability to access foreign markets". Most gamers in Sweden understand English and play games in english so not wanting to tap into foreign markets sounds dumb. Does the writer think that there isn't a significant portion of english speakers who aren't native? I'm going to call out his ignorance by ignorantly saying he's a 'murican so what am I expecting from a burger. :V
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This is true for Portugal too. Pretty much 95% of all games are in English over there. And there are plenty of gamers. Last year Portugal gamers "gave" $297M to the gaming industry, it was the #39 county in the world on the "Top Countries & Markets by Game Revenues"

Sweden was the #28 with $463M.

Turkey is the #18 with $853M.

It's obvious that gamers in "foreign markets" buy a lot of games in english
 
Mr Fish said:
I don't like this part of what the writer said though "and I don’t benefit from the ability to access foreign markets".
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He's speaking as if he was a small time indie dev with a team of 2 to 3 people. But yeah, I'd think even indie games get a fair chance to make money in a foreign market. Because as long as there are people that can read/understand the language(s) the game is provided in, there will still be an interest.

The market doesn't work purely by how much money is spent on games in that region. Games that appeal to people in China are vastly different to games that appeal to Americans. It's another simplification of the writer assuming that if they were a small indie dev that the biggest market would be the best market it seems? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Most games in China, as far as I understand it, are geared towards the mobile and freemium market, not to mention the strict laws on media there. So just because they spend the most, that doesn't mean your indie game will greatly benefit from being localized in a Chinese language compared to something else.
 
The whole thing is really surreal for me.

Does Steam need competition?

Yes.

Is Epic doing the best they can in order to become that?

No.

Are the hated publishers using the opportunity to push for their own platforms so that they avoid either's fees?

Yes.

And somehow the whole thing is slowly becoming more and more messy.

It's bizarre.
 
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