The Fallout Subreddit is a Toxic Community

Jogre

Jogre

So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Someone made a post asking if Obsidian should have full rights to the Fallout series instead of Bethesda, and naturally I agreed since Obsidian understands the Fallout series a lot more. My response was 100% inoffensive and non-controversial.

What happened, I got downvoted like hell. The only reason these people would have to downvote me is because they disagreed with me, and I'm 100% sure that downvoting someone you disagree with is against Rediquette.

I naturally took a moral stand against these people. Downvoting is a tool intended to deal with trolls and people who don't contribute to the discussion(Which constitutes the vast majority of that subreddit), it has negative connotations for you to get too many downvotes on reddit as it takes away from a thing called "Karma" which effects the amount of times you can post, and therefore downvoting someone in order to enforce your own opinion on them is completely out of line, as you are putting sanctions on people just because you disagree with them.

I referred to the people trying to downvote me for expressing an opinion as "Assholes" naturally, since they are making use of reddit harder for me purely because they disagreed with me, but then the real fun started as I got responses saying "Stop complaining about being downvoted if you are going to call people assholes!", Oh I'm sorry, I forgot all these people who are downvoting me are innocent people, it's not like they were being fascists and trying to censor me with downvotes.

You know what, I forgot that we weren't allowed to respond negatively to people who are actively trying to make it harder to express your opinion. If your following that logic, then why don't you stop hating on Kim Jong Un, all he's actually doing is trying to stop people from expressing their opinions.

And then a few people started agreeing with me, because obviously Obsidian makes the best fallout games. It makes sense that people would support them over Bethesda. What's your response to when multiple people express the same opinion, is is to assume that the opinion is more popular than you thought, or to just automatically assume it's one guy using alternate accounts?

Some asshole started accusing me of using Alternate Accounts just because a newer member who had not previously posted was agreeing with me.

So make a horrible accusation against someone on very little evidence?, That's a nice way to treat someone isn't it?


TL, DR: People on the Fallout Subreddit are stupid bullycircling wankers, who will try and censor you the moment you express an opinion they dislike, wont allow you to point out that other people are behaving outrageously purely because they dislike you, and make accusations against you based on nothing.


Funny thing is that they accuse this community of being toxic because we criticize Fallout 3 and 4. I'm starting to think that this forum, the one that has the most negative reputation, is the only Fallout Forum with decent human beings on.
 
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JO'Geran said:
Funny thing is that they accuse this community of being toxic because we criticize Fallout 3 and 4. I'm starting to think that this forum, the one that has the most negative reputation, is the only Fallout Forum with decent human beings on.
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*Edit
Heh, you know what those people you speak of don't understand? Most of us, are actually proud about this reputation.
 
I just tell them sorry for your mental disability. You can't reason with them and your sanity will only dwindle the more you try to express why a point is obviously more logical than another with facts. I love the reputation us at NMA get, it makes us feel unique(atleast to me).
 
Well, to be fair, it wasn't toxic at first. About a couple months or so after Fallout 4's release, people started realising how quick the game wore off and how unlike New Vegas had good pacing as to make it start off a little boring but build up over time (as normal games used to do), Fallout 4 just burnt out quickly. Poor writing and repetitive gameplay, we all know the drill.

Following that, we all know Reddit has a habit of circlejerk cycles because the search function being basically useless combined with how easy it is to make posts, means that new members who know nothing can just waltz in and ask the same question that someone already did ten days ago rather than just continue on that thread.

As a result, Fallout subreddits got a whole slew of complaint threads on how New Vegas was much, much better and how Fallout 4 was basically Fallout 3 Plus. I think that there were only one or two posts on front page at the time that wasn't about Fallout 4 being bad.

The bigger parts of the community, who never really liked NV (citing that it was functionally identical to FO3 with worse atmosphere, more bugs, and that they didn't come to Fallout games for the writing) sort of got fed up with the several hundred posts that flew in every hour, and started responding very aggressively, as you've now seen.

It's also why you saw a fairly moderate influx of members to NMA who immediately began asking why NMA hates Fallout 4 so much.

To that end, we get a massive community now pretty angry at the fact that a good game came out and was "disrespected by its fanbase". Hell, you'll see that most Redditors actually think liking Fallout 4 is the minority opinion - the unpopular one.

...I spend too much time on Reddit, so I know this. But now you know why, and yet it doesn't make it any less stupid. Still, I can assure you that there are numerous groups of people on the subreddit who still values Obsidian's work over Bethesda, yet stay quiet because speaking out gets them downvoted anyways.

Basically, the pro-Bethesda majority thinks they are the oppressed minority, which is why they are fairly mad.

They are not to be confused with other supporters of Fallout 4 who are just normal gamers who have no idea who Bethesda or Obsidian are and just enjoy the game for what it is.
 
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MercenarySnake said:
I just tell them sorry for your mental disability. You can't reason with them and your sanity will only dwindle the more you try to express why a point is obviously more logical than another with facts. I love the reputation us at NMA get, it makes us feel unique(atleast to me).
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Accusing them of having a mental disability, while it could be funny, would also be insulting to people who actually have mental disabilities, as I doubt they would want to be compared to the people on that subreddit.

And besides, they have too much of a victim complex to fully take that in, they'll probably be all like "OMFG, I know we were giving this guy loads of abuse, but he called us mentally disabled. He is being so aggresive!"
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Well, to be fair, it wasn't toxic at first. About a couple months or so after Fallout 4's release, people started realising how quick the game wore off and how unlike New Vegas had good pacing as to make it start off a little boring but build up over time (as normal games used to do), Fallout 4 just burnt out quickly. Poor writing and repetitive gameplay, we all know the drill.

Following that, we all know Reddit has a habit of circlejerk cycles because the search function being basically useless combined with how easy it is to make posts, means that new members who know nothing can just waltz in and ask the same question that someone already did ten days ago rather than just continue on that thread.

As a result, Fallout subreddits got a whole slew of complaint threads on how New Vegas was much, much better and how Fallout 4 was basically Fallout 3 Plus. I think that there were only one or two posts on front page at the time that wasn't about Fallout 4 being bad.

The bigger parts of the community, who never really liked NV (citing that it was functionally identical to FO3 with worse atmosphere, more bugs, and that they didn't come to Fallout games for the writing) sort of got fed up with the several hundred posts that flew in every hour, and started responding very aggressively, as you've now seen.

It's also why you saw a fairly moderate influx of members to NMA who immediately began asking why NMA hates Fallout 4 so much.

To that end, we get a massive community now pretty angry at the fact that a good game came out and was "disrespected by its fanbase". Hell, you'll see that most Redditors actually think liking Fallout 4 is the minority opinion - the unpopular one.

...I spend too much time on Reddit, so I know this. But now you know why, and yet it doesn't make it any less stupid. Still, I can assure you that there are numerous groups of people on the subreddit who still values Obsidian's work over Bethesda, yet stay quiet because speaking out gets them downvoted anyways.

Basically, the pro-Bethesda majority thinks they are the oppressed minority, which is why they are fairly mad.

They are not to be confused with other supporters of Fallout 4 who are just normal gamers who have no idea who Bethesda or Obsidian are and just enjoy the game for what it is.
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Good explanation, I guess I can kind of understand that whole 'opressed minority' complex. I've often been angry with Bethesda Fans because I felt that my favorite games were being ignored, although I would never act even half as aggressively as that subreddit. They seem more like they are actively being fascist about their opinions, as opposed to just trying to defend themselves.

I understand that it's not all Fallout 4 Fans. I'll try to be as accepting as possible towards different people's preferences when it comes to games.
 
It seems like a lot pf people on Reddit are afraid to say that they don't like Fallout 3 and 4. Someone makes a long post saying why New Vegas is the better than 3 and 4, and actually giving all the right reasons. But they always end the post with "I still think 3 and 4 are amazing games though".
 
Pvt Snowball said:
It seems like a lot pf people on Reddit are afraid to say that they don't like Fallout 3 and 4. Someone makes a long post saying why New Vegas is the better than 3 and 4, and actually giving all the right reasons. But they always end the post with "I still think 3 and 4 are amazing games though".
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You are required to say that. I've made a comment criticising Fallout 4 before, got downvoted like hell, added edits and replies noting that 3 and 4 were still good, and got upvoted right back.

This is what happens when the minority thinks they are the majority. They assume that they're being beaten into liking New Vegas, when in truth...
 
some Reddit drone said:
Personally I would love to see a "Fallout 4: Shelter" DLC that acts just like the mobile game and is essentially "sims".
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I want to believe this is a joke.
 
While I agree being downvoted for your opinion is ridiculous, I can't blame them for getting angry when you decided to call them assholes instead of explaining yourself in addition to bringing up the argument in like 6 other unrelated threads. I can't make a good observation on how justified your hostility was though since most of the posts were deleted. And while I won't mention what it is here, your username on Reddit kinda seems trollish considering it by itself challenges a portion of the fanbase which probably wouldn't rub well with other people.

In the case of them thinking that you were "sockpuppeting" with alt accounts, to be fair they can't know or not. While in the end you weren't using a sockpuppet, it has happened before so you can never really know. It's made worse by the fact the other guy apparently didn't make a real post until now so it would definitely look like a sockpuppet scenario.

Not trying to be an apologist here, but considering what I've seen of the situation, this is more of a case of bad communications rather than a toxic community.
 
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Uh, so I decided to be a bit of a hypocritical dick and posted a question on the Fallout subreddit asking why the number of PC players on Fallout 4 is down. I said that I assumed a game-breaking bug came with a patch, and lo and behold, I got downvoted like hell, with people automatically assuming I was about to talk down their beloved Fallout 4. Wow, just wow.
 
Well let's see:

Dumbfuck said:
Normal as with every game. So sorry your conspiracy theory doesn't hold up. Even the adored Witcher 3 had the same droppings a few months in.
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Well that's not normal with every game unless it's a steaming dog turd. I don't think this person knows what a conspiracy theory is because not once did you say anything like that, just asked a simple question. As for the Witcher 3, I'm not sure how right or wrong I am on this but with how much praise the game got I'm pretty sure the numbers weren't dropping like crazy like Falloutlands 4.

Dumbfuck said:
It goes up again as soon as DLCs are released (people are holding back their next playthroughs for DLC) and GECK.
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Oh the two paid mods like the pokemon one or the build your own sexbot? Yeah I haven't seen too many people around the net seem very excited at all even on the Beth forums. They'll play it a bit until the novelty wears off then they'll get bored again. The Fart Harbor Moby Dick Cthulhu DLC doesn't come out until what..May? Oh that's cute they think the GECK will save this shit, if they even release it at all. They'll probably want money for it and lock out mods made with it until you buy the GECK.

Dumbfuck said:
But yeah I don't want to crush your great dream that FO4 has no replay value. So best not to read my post :). (at my 2nd playthrough and actually in steam offline mode as a lot of people who play single player games prefer).
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Sorry to say but that's not a dream, it's a reality unless you're really good at LARPING. Uh I'm pretty sure a lot of people play it online too, I don't remember only liking to play single player games offline let alone a preferred way of playing single player games offline unless I have no internet connection.

You interrupted their circlejerking Zigzag how dare you. :lol:
 
Big No said:
While I agree being downvoted for your opinion is ridiculous, I can't blame them for getting angry when you decided to call them assholes instead of explaining yourself in addition to bringing up the argument in like 6 other unrelated threads. I can't make a good observation on how justified your hostility was though since most of the posts were deleted. And while I won't mention what it is here, your username on Reddit kinda seems trollish considering it by itself challenges a portion of the fanbase which probably wouldn't rub well with other people.
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While maybe referring to them as assholes was a bit over-the-top, I highly doubt that a bunch of people who think that its OK to downvote someone you disagree with would be willing to even give me a chance to explain myself.

As for the complaining about it on different threads. A lot of those threads were being downvoted for no reason, so I thought I might as well explain to them why that is.

As for my username. Fair point there, maybe it may seem a little insulting to Bethesda fans, but I never see anyone complaining about Fallout3Freak's username. And besides, if anyone ever brings up the username, I will explain to them that despite that, I still will respect other opinions. If that was their problem they could have at least brought it up rather than hiding behind downvotes.

The whole "Sockpuppeting" thing. While there was no evidence one way or another, surely if you can't prove someone is guilty of something you shouldn't make accusations. Accusing someone of something that there is little to no evidence for is a highly dickish thing to do.

While I no longer give full blame to that subreddit, I still think that a community who downvote you based on nothing, and accuse you of things based on mostly speculation are a toxic community.
 
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