Thieves' Guild + Modoc Rebuild

Chris Parks

Chris Parks

Vault Senior Citizen
This is a project anouncement for a mod that I've wanted to do for a long time now.

I've never liked the town of Modoc and this mod is changing the whole town. The maps have all been updated with different things. There is a Blacksmith, Mine, and also a thieve's guild.

The thieve's guild has MANY quests, some of which are quite involved and will take a bit of travelling. There will be many new interactions with other towns as well.

The whole mod is a joint project between myself and Dude101. It's been in progress now about a month or so and hopefully should be near enough done by late January or so, time permitting.
 
"guild"?

Are you joking? Guilds are so 15th century.

PS: wait, blacksmith? So is this like a NWN mod for Fallout?
 
I liked modoc, but I have a couple of things I'd like to see added.

If you cant find the guy who got scared and ran away drunk the the towns people normaly go kill the people underground you should be able to do these:
- If you are really late and they are all dead you should have the option for payback, "you killed them all you murdering bastards, eat lead...*bang*"
- You shoul dbe able to help defend the underground people.

In a happy world where you find the scared drunk guy in time and the town opens up trade with the farm you should be able to re-open the tunnel from the well the kid fell down. If I remeber correctly the well lead to the underground people except for a cave in. You should be able to re-dig the tunnel (maybe get som emining equipment from redding). I always wanted to have the tunnel dug back out. It would be a good secure place to trade, maybe have a new entry in town where the well was, and nice underground trading outpost perhaps.
 
Kharn said:
"guild"?
Are you joking? Guilds are so 15th century.

PS: wait, blacksmith? So is this like a NWN mod for Fallout?
Click to expand...

Hey mate, how about flaming the mod after you have actually seen the content and have therefore generated rational reasons to express dislike!

You are forgetting the current politics of the wastes may as well be that of the 15th century. Maybe if it was marketed as a syndicate it would sound cooler and would be accepted even though its the same thing practically. There was a guild in F1 BTW, there is a rationale for its existence: not exclusively because of the existence of a guild in F1.

I cant comment on the blacksmith as it is Chris's but it does make sense to have one is such a primitive world. Making plus 5 backstabbing swords is a bonus... just kidding.

I like you ideas Wild_qwerty.
 
Dude101 said:
Hey mate, how about flaming the mod after you have actually seen the content and have therefore generated rational reasons to express dislike!
Click to expand...

Hey mate, I don't need to see a mod to know a bad idea when I see it. This doesn't rank in as bad an idea as Wasteland Merc, but it's still pretty obviously bad.

Dude101 said:
You are forgetting the current politics of the wastes may as well be that of the 15th century.
Click to expand...

No it "mayn't" be, guild isn't a form of politics, it's a complex social structure which necessitates a stable society. It ranks in bad anachronistic ideas much like New Reno.

I could explain further why this is a really bad idea, but seriously, it's should be obvious.

Dude101 said:
There was a guild in F1 BTW, there is a rationale for its existence: not exclusively because of the existence of a guild in F1.
Click to expand...

The Fallout 1 "thieves' guild" isn't actually a guild. And in case you didn't notice, they weren't actually very succesful or pervasive, just a bunch of guys led by a strangely misplaced Brit (if he wasn't so funny, he'd suck).

Dude101 said:
I cant comment on the blacksmith as it is Chris's but it does make sense to have one is such a primitive world.
Click to expand...

Really? Because the goods and skill necessary to be a blacksmith would be readily available? Yeah right, the tanner in Modoc is already pretty rare, and that's a few steps below blacksmith.

A blacksmith doesn't make sense either. Who the hell is going to spend time making swords when people have gun? Who wants to make axes or shovels when people are still reusing the old prewar stuff?
 
Actually, Kharn, it is obvious that you do need to see this mod before you determine whether it is good or bad. You all are getting caught up on the words used, and obviously have different ideas about what a guild is or isn't. Would it make you feel better if it was called a club, fraternity, union, or 'bunch of Modoc guys who steal stuff'?

As for a blacksmith's tools and other resources being available, why wouldn't they be? It's been some time after the Great War. Why wouldn't people have to make items such as primitive farming implements again? Not everyone is going to have access to the pre-war tech...that stuff breaks down obviously. And who said anything about him really making swords?
 
Lets just wait and see how it is received by the good people of NMA, I am sure many will appreciate the effort undertaken to create new content for them. Its a mod so if anyone doesn't like the idea they don't have to play it.
 
It's always hard to have the "will force" (don't know if it's a good english expression, on portuguese it works) to start a mod and finish it. I also have a lot of ideas, but putting them on pratical from theorical is really a problem. After we start to make the mod problems come like boringness and hard stuff to work on. The deal it's to start a thing and finish it. Hope you guys going to be able to finish it. It's better to have a mod with "bad ideas" (as Kharn said) finished instead of having nothing at all.

Good luck on you guys.
 
Just "Will" works fine, Destruidor de Demónios :)


The blacksmith is a fine idea, nothing wrong with that , creating another guild doesn't seem interesting at all, except if it's a merry way to have some fun at the illusions of greatness of the NPCs or a joke at RPG cliches. If that's the case why not, give it a go, but if it's just a case of bringing those cliches "just because" then i sort of agree with Kharn, no need for that, you are too talented to waste your time in such smalltime endeavors.

And guys loosen up, a few negative comments should be welcomed, it's by being critical that there is progress, one can always learn something from every good or bad opinions regarding our work, even if one goes in a completely opposite way.
 
MIB88 said:
Actually, Kharn, it is obvious that you do need to see this mod before you determine whether it is good or bad.
Click to expand...

Yes, just like I needed to see how the Iraq War went before predicting it to be a failure.

Wait, no I didn't, because it was a bad idea to start with.

Yeeesh.

MIB88 said:
Would it make you feel better if it was called a club, fraternity, union, or 'bunch of Modoc guys who steal stuff'?
Click to expand...

I don't care what you call it, as long as it isn't an AD&D thieves' guild pasted into Fallout.

MIB88 said:
As for a blacksmith's tools and other resources being available, why wouldn't they be? It's been some time after the Great War. Why wouldn't people have to make items such as primitive farming implements again? Not everyone is going to have access to the pre-war tech...that stuff breaks down obviously.
Click to expand...

So what am I looking at here? Some country yokel who bumpkins along fixing existing broken down equipment? Fine. Some guy who somehow from somewhere grew knowledge of techniques that have been forgotten for hundred of years as well as a forge to work with? Less fine.

It's better to have a mod with "bad ideas" (as Kharn said) finished instead of having nothing at all.
Click to expand...

In the case of Wasteland merc, my preference goes out to it never having existed.
 
Kharn said:
MIB88 said:
Actually, Kharn, it is obvious that you do need to see this mod before you determine whether it is good or bad.
Click to expand...

Yes, just like I needed to see how the Iraq War went before predicting it to be a failure.

Wait, no I didn't, because it was a bad idea to start with.

Yeeesh.

MIB88 said:
As for a blacksmith's tools and other resources being available, why wouldn't they be? It's been some time after the Great War. Why wouldn't people have to make items such as primitive farming implements again? Not everyone is going to have access to the pre-war tech...that stuff breaks down obviously.
Click to expand...

So what am I looking at here? Some country yokel who bumpkins along fixing existing broken down equipment? Fine. Some guy who somehow from somewhere grew knowledge of techniques that have been forgotten for hundred of years as well as a forge to work with? Less fine.
Click to expand...

I can't believe you are comparing suppositions of a real world war with a fictional game idea. What is your damage?!

As for what the country yokel would be working on, that was my whole point: you need to see the mod before you go saying what it's about and how good or bad it is. It's no different than any of the characters in the game, anyway. Where do they all learn to repair weapons, repair cars, make forcefields, etc. By the way, that is a rhetorical question. I don't need an answer to that, or anything else you might post about the mod before it has been released. I'm not interested and won't be reading it. After it's been released, and we have both played it, then I'll be interested in discussing this with you.
 
MIB88 said:
I can't believe you are comparing suppositions of a real world war with a fictional game idea. What is your damage?!
Click to expand...

Apparently my damage is other people's inability to understand what an analogy is?

MIB88 said:
As for what the country yokel would be working on, that was my whole point: you need to see the mod before you go saying what it's about and how good or bad it is.
Click to expand...

Does it occur to you that if I offer criticism that is invalid it can simply be refuted by saying "Oh, you got the impression that we're adding fantasy-lite elements to Fallout 2, that's not our intention, here's what we're actually doing."?

MIB88 said:
It's no different than any of the characters in the game, anyway.
Click to expand...

For Fallout 2, that's not exactly a strong point.

MIB88 said:
Where do they all learn to repair weapons, repair cars, make forcefields, etc.
Click to expand...

From pre-war manuals, duh.

Tell me, how many manuals do you think the average library or bookstore has on repairing cars or electronic devices vis-a-vis books on how to be a blacksmith?

MIB88 said:
I'm not interested and won't be reading it. After it's been released, and we have both played it, then I'll be interested in discussing this with you.
Click to expand...

Right, so when it's too late to do anything about it, *then* you'll start talking about. I can see where you're coming from here.
 
I really do wish you would all stop arguing, wont someone think of the children, please think of the children ;)

Anyway, here's my opinion.

I like the idea of a black smith, but maybe calling it a "foundry" would be more appropaite. They could handle low tech metal work etc... As a side quest they would need a supply of metal. A blacksmith does suit modoc as they already have a tanner of leather. I would also be tempted to add various trader/supply quests for the smith and the tanner (open up trade routes for new pelts of gecko's and rats, car wrecks for metal etc...)

I do see Kharn's point of view in regards to a 'guild' it sounds a little to much like D&D ;) it's more the choice of words such as 'guild' that invoke these images, calling it a 'gang' or a 'crew' (maybe even 'club'). These words sound a lot less D&D and more modern.

But having a group of people who steal stuff is very PA, just maybe call it somehting other than a guild (not sure what sorry).

The ideas are good, maybe just tweak the name?
 
Well, there seems to have been a few posts since I was last here,

Kharn... If you don't like it, then fine. You are not legally bound to download it and play it. Also, your negative feelings are fine as well, just don't force them down the throats of everyone and expect them to accept it!

Demonslayer,

Finishing the mod won't be a problem at all. This is the thrid one that I'm working on (two have already been released) so determination and eagerness are not a problem. you will all have the chance to see it when it's done.

Wild_qwerty,

That's exactly how I've scripted it. You need sufficient iron ore first before you can get anything.

As for the mod itself, not it won't alter the quests already there. It just adds new ones.

I can't see why it wouldn't be well accepted. A set of thieve's in a post apocalyptic wasteland, stealing to survive would be sensible.

If the name's the problem, then I can simply change it to something else...but really, what's in a name? It's just a name. The mod is the important part.
 
Just as long as you connect modoc to the ghost farm (with a tunnel) I'll be happy :)

I wonder if you could link modoc and the ghost farm to redding.
- Someone from redding heres about the tunnels and he think that they might be an old abandoned mine, he asks the player to get him permission to enter the tunnels (turns out that there is no gold there)
- The underground people would like some new equipment for tunneling (wood for support beams or steal girders, pick axes etc...)
- Maybe they want some sunglasses so they can go out at day time.

Maybe as they start to tunnel into a new area something big and nasty was living there (no not a balrog), maybe new sort of mutant cave critter?
 
wild_qwerty,

Some great ideas there, though I may need a little bit of help from somebody to achieve that.

Firstly, where would you want the tunnel to go from and to in Modoc and ghost town? From the bottom of the well is easy enough, but where would be the best place to put it in ghost town?

As for Redding, that's a little less straightforward but easy enough to do with time. Who would talk about that? Old characters or new characters? I already have a new mine section in Modoc now that could easily be converted.

As for the critters, there's a Behemoth on Heroes Might and Magic 3 (I think it's this one!) something along those lines would be a perfect cave critter.

I don't know how (or really have time) to make a cave critter. Could anybody maybe lend a hand there?



The ideas are really good.
 
I wonder where those spiders from baldurs gate I converted went too? If you can contact either obj_dude or corpse they will still have a copy of the spider critters, if not I could probably convert them again.
 
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