you see a bughole? nuke it!DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Todd on FO3:'Uh... it's currently... full steam ahead.'
- Thread starter Ratty Sr.
- Start date
Dracon M'Alkir
Vault Senior Citizen
Imagine how ironic it would be that if by some gigantic fluke of destiny Fallout 3 actually lived up to the other Fallout titles released before it's time, and we'd all have to eat our words. Of course, the chances of that realistically happening are like absolutely zero... y'know. :\
i'd be the happiest man on earth, DarkLegacy.
(well, maybe not, but VERY happy anyway)
(well, maybe not, but VERY happy anyway)
DarkLegacy said:
There are no words for many of us to eat. We are distrustful of Bethesda's competence as cRPG designers and do not hold high hopes for Fallout 3, but most of us that actually pause to think neither condemn it up front nor praise it up front.
We'll leave that to the morons, either the ones that say "it'll suck!" before so much as a screenshot is released or the ones that say "this'll be the greatest game ever" without any news on it whatsoever. Morons, the lot of them.
DarkLegacy said:
As I've said since...Fallout Tactics. I *want* to be proven wrong in regards to a developer suddenly having a clue, when publicly they're up to their knee and still chewing upwards, while at the same time trying to chase trends. I don't give a fuck what the console trash thinks is fun for them; as obviously the stupid shits got what they verbally masturbated onto even these and the official Interplay forums with F
OS. Only 17,000 managed to con someone dumber than them into buying it for them, and the game has been pirated far more than it has been legitimately sold. On the same note, I have knowledge about the history of the industry, notably the series I helped QA and do some design selling out by EA's demand for the action crowd, before Todd decided to make a shit game with "Cool, Shiny Features" as the focus, which explains why even with the Terminator name and coming before Quake, Future Shock was considered a suck game. Great features and capability, absolute shit for design - OF A FUCKING SHOOTER! It might have also had something to do with the interface, and apparently I knew a hell of a lot more about interfaces than Todd even then.The main failure of Ultima 8 was in expecting CRPG designers to come up with an action game that still appealed to the original old-school audience.
Now we're expecting a bunch of action adventure designers with shiny as priority to come up with a solid CRPG, when let's face it, the best "role-playing" in Oblivion is either playing the speech mini-game of crap, or deciding which way to make your character either ubar-powerful or ubar-useless to even role-playing in the game (JOAT), and which guilds to join. No real affect upon the story outcome, story progression, and once all the shiny widgets are played with, all promise the game might have had goes out of the window instantly...just like Morrowind. Fallout is simply to an unheard of level of complexity in regards to Bethesda. It makes sense, given Bethesda's specialty is graphics. Which is why many old-school CRPGers think it sucks ass when there's no real game behind the shiny, shallow promises.
Keep in mind, that Fallout came out after Ultima was sold out, and after Might and Magic went the same trendy way, with a combat system in VI that was so bad because it had to be "balanced" for both RT and TB, that led to the worst dungeon design ever, Castle Darkmoor.
If it looks like a weak attempt to cash in on a license, then I will say so. I like to be pleasantly surprised when my expectations are exceeded of a sequel, I can accept comparable quality, but not trying at all is simply deplorable. Bethesda chose to pick and buy the license of the Champion of the Old-School CRPGs. Not as in "best", but as the one that stood for great design and gameplay when everyone else just doesn't seem to really understand why the CRPG genre is going to hell when they do minimal work with maximum hype and the bastardization of the RPG sub-genre*. Or why Fallout specifically has "A Post Nuclear Role-Playing Game" in it's title.
* - RPGs are a sub-genre of Adventure, to be minutely technical, since it was adapted from tabletop, it would be Adventure->Adventure-Strategy->RPG. Adventure includes Action-Adventure, Adventure-Sim, Dungeon Crawler (which would be right alongside RPG, as Adventure->Adventure-Strategy->Dungeon Crawler, but the actual defining point between the two would be in terms of actual affect upon the story and choice and consequences), RPG, Bishōjo (which is actually under Adventure-Sim), the many Adventure theme flavors, and many other minor sub-genres of adventure that incorporates what essentially revolves around the three act story arc structure - which is what Adventure essentially IS: Beginning, the Story Adventure, Resolution. There are many hybrids, but those are special exceptions, and should actually offer enough of each genre put together into hybrid to actually be considered a hybrid, else it is merely a flavor or a (genre) with stats.
Adventure games have stats.
Action games have stats.
Racing games have stats.
FPS games have stats.
RPG games have stats.
Stats do NOT mean RPG.
Adventure games have classes.
Action games have stats.
Racing games have classes.
FPS games have classes.
RPG games have classes.
Classes do NOT mean RPG.
Adventure games have levels.
Action games have stats.
Racing games have levels.
FPS games have levels.
RPG games have levels.
Levels do NOT mean RPG.
RPG stands for a certain type of Adventure game that offered genuine choice and consequences through gameplay, and not simple script effects.
That is what Fallout stood for when everything else was bending to trends.
Those are pretty big shoes to fill, but uh...Bethesda bought those shoes. That was their decision, and if they don't try to keep to the same quality or better (as a sequel would infer), then they voluntarily went out of their way to make a failure, at least in design terms.
There was also another reason why they weren't hyping Oblivion as much as Morrowind before their announcement of it, they were too busy sucking themselves over the expansions for Morrowind*. Like they were doing so for Morrowind before Morrowind was officially announced. So their obfuscation and unwillingness to be forthright means that they are probably afraid of having their asses handed to them soundly by the Fallout and general gaming media (let's face it, even GameBanshee has to be embarrassed after being made Chuck's bitch, repeatedly), and now it seems like they are buying for time like MicroForté with FOT when I raised similar suspicions.
*- You know, the mods that added in the rest of the things people expected from TES since Daggerfall, lycanthropy.
Given from what I've heard from my sources, no shit. No fucking shit. It's FOT all over again, and the editor didn't even come close to saving it.
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Fallout 3 : Fallout
as
Bruce Li : Bruce Lee
as
Bruce Li : Bruce Lee
Roshambo said:
well would you please share with us what you heard from your sources?
and how the hell can fallout 3 be FOT?! FOT wasn't even trying to be an RPG, and there was almost no interaction between NPCS, just go on a mission of killing a bunch or humans\muties\robots and go back home for another mission.
maybe fallout3 won't be everything you expected, but it will sure give you a chance to talk with npcs over there and do side-quests... even oblivion has that
Fuck, that's what Oblivion was like and that game was billed as a CRPG. He means Fallout 3 will be like FOT in the way of taking the Fallout name and screwing it over to make a mediocre at best game.
maybe fallout3 won't be everything you expected, but it will sure give you a chance to talk with npcs over there and do side-quests... even oblivion has that
I'm thinking it'll be everything he expects. And that's not a good thing, trust me.
sunny jim said:maybe fallout3 won't be everything you expected, but it will sure give you a chance to talk with npcs over there and do side-quests... even oblivion has that
There were side quests in Fallout: tactics. For what that's worth.
And there was no talking to NPCs in Oblivion. The npcs of Oblivion have the same functionality as the bulletin boards in fallout. Read, don't write. I'd thought my character was mute if she hadn't moaned here and there.
can't argue with that... it's like you talked to the same NPC over and over again, but he just told you something else every time...
the same options of:
ask about this NPC's side quest
ask about rumours
ask about the town in order to inflate the dialog options a little so that it'll look like you have some options.
anyways, each and every one of us has hope that they'll make a good and worthy sequel, and i believe everyone thinks that there's a chance of that happening, some more, and some less.
otherwise no one would come here to visit this site. all in all, this is the main purpose of this site, to await together a sequel for fallout, all the other stuff the site has are just things that get added when a community evolves, it's just the nature of us humans
the same options of:
ask about this NPC's side quest
ask about rumours
ask about the town in order to inflate the dialog options a little so that it'll look like you have some options.
anyways, each and every one of us has hope that they'll make a good and worthy sequel, and i believe everyone thinks that there's a chance of that happening, some more, and some less.
otherwise no one would come here to visit this site. all in all, this is the main purpose of this site, to await together a sequel for fallout, all the other stuff the site has are just things that get added when a community evolves, it's just the nature of us humans
Actually, the main reason I come here is because I want to be around when Bethesda botch Fallout 3. I see great potential for personal amusement in contributing to the flak they will inevitably attract.sunny jim said:anyways, each and every one of us has hope that they'll make a good and worthy sequel, and i believe everyone thinks that there's a chance of that happening, some more, and some less.
otherwise no one would come here to visit this site. all in all, this is the main purpose of this site, to await together a sequel for fallout, all the other stuff the site has are just things that get added when a community evolves, it's just the nature of us humans
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Nobody actually thinks the came could be any more enjoyable than the shitstorm that will surround it? I can't wait to see NMA, DAC and the Codex united behind a common cause.
Morbus
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I would love to have to eat my words, but it can because i haven't made my mind yet. But yes, the canche of that happening (that which you speak of) is pretty slim... but Suffer has just said this (more or less) and, as most of the times, his opinion matches mine (or the other way around... :DarkLegacy said:
Suffer said:
sunny jim said:
VDweller's remarks were fairly spot on, circa the last time Pete had his mouth open to make funny noises. My sources pretty much admitted the same things.
Due to my time in and around the industry, developer remarks (which sudden incoherence does often indicate gross unfamiliarity with the subject) *are* my "screenshots". They will either describe what they are doing faithfully, by saying it straight forward (most indie developers, and anyone else who doesn't have their balls owned by corporate marketing/PR departments); else they will do the Interplay/Chuck hype of weasel words and evasiveness (FOT, Run Like Hell, F
OS); or the third is to press hype to overshadow problematic parts of the development (Lionheart, Descent to Undermountain, Oblivion's amazing AI...and the craptacular leveling scheme).No developer is afraid to talk about good work. In fact, it's kind of hard to get them to keep some of the exciting parts a secret, because the better they seem, the more it itches at the designer to share them. Hence the real reward of authoring, whether it be a book, a P&P campaign, or a video game.
Now only if the children in the industry were wise enough to realize this, but instead they let some asshat business major hold their balls for them in order to be allowed to take a verbal piss.
And how does Oblivion try to be a CRPG at all?
Hooray for Fed-Ex quests and crappy AI that seems to be on par with GTA:SA. Oh, wait...I haven't seen the police in GTA start attacking each other, amusing that at least Rockstar, an action driving game focused company, is able to code in faction-based flags into their attack algorithms, over a supposed CRPG developer*.
* - They don't develop CRPGs. Never have, and have never really intended to.
You're right. It's much, much worse. I was expecting for them to at least give a halfway honest try. They didn't even make it out of the proverbial gate.
but it will sure give you a chance to talk with npcs over there and do side-quests... even oblivion has that
Until I find out that I can have the "pleasure" of doing this in something that doesn't even bear the shallowest facsimile in canon, style, or gameplay as Fallout, and the voice-acting sucks ass except for the two of talent they paid and hyped over (while Fallout's VO was limited to special characters, but it was excellent because of that focus), the faces look like a few whacks with a crowbar would be an improvement (while Fallout was known for great and memorable character faces), and generally every other fault of Bethesda, including their rather moronic comments that they are developing this title just like Oblivion (in more ways than the "in spirit" 'clarification' they made later). Oblivion's "quality" is literally skin-deep, as it does not extend to the core design of the game.
In other words, Fallout 3 will have become everything anathema to Fallout, by replacing everything that made it great with cheap replacements, while the focus is directed to all the wrong aspects for even worse reasons. I.e., X-Box 360.
Yes, folks, this is going to get entertaining, even if the game is only going to have enduring gameplay for the goldfish that still play Morrowind years later, or the people that will still play un-modded Oblivion still in 2010 when most people I know can't fucking stand the game a month after getting it, while Fallout 1 is still playable today.
well you're probably right about everything there(and we can all hope you're wrong), and you pointed out the problems very well, but what CAN be done?
i mean, Troika closed down, obsidian wern't interested at the time, and to be frank, the fallout sequel we all want has to be done by those who made the first two, in order to it be the game we all want. but sadly that will never happen, right?
so you'd rather the title to just die away, and not for some company, to even try to make a sequel? well yeah, bethsoft don't have any real CRPG titles but neither did interplay before fallout right? the PR is crap, and they don't even know how to keep their mouths shut(even though they try all the time) but the developers did come here and posted a few things about a year-two years back, so it means they visit the site, and might lurk here and read the message boards...
so maybe they do have the pointers to make a worthy sequel.
i mean, Troika closed down, obsidian wern't interested at the time, and to be frank, the fallout sequel we all want has to be done by those who made the first two, in order to it be the game we all want. but sadly that will never happen, right?
so you'd rather the title to just die away, and not for some company, to even try to make a sequel? well yeah, bethsoft don't have any real CRPG titles but neither did interplay before fallout right? the PR is crap, and they don't even know how to keep their mouths shut(even though they try all the time) but the developers did come here and posted a few things about a year-two years back, so it means they visit the site, and might lurk here and read the message boards...
so maybe they do have the pointers to make a worthy sequel.
I think most people here agree that no Fallout is better than bad or mediocre Fallout.sunny jim said:
Incorrect. I assume you've never heard of Wasteland, a post-apoc CRPG that Fallout is in many ways an homage to, or noticed the fact that many of the people who worked on Fallout had an impressive number of classic dungeon crawlers under their belt (Bard's Tale series, Stonekeep), as well as considerable experience in P&P and board game development?
FOT developers visited these boards too, and we all know how well their game lived up to its Fallout roots.
sunny jim said:
You can have balls to stand for quality, instead of letting the developers dictate to you what you're going to buy, and then watch as they come up with some insane shit that later doesn't fly. It happens in comics all the time. There are reasons why some "writers/artists" have had threats of having their hands broken for their sloppy work, if they should ever return to certain material. It comes from the ire in regards to fraud, in that someone just paid a shyster hard earned money for sloppy substandard work that doesn't respect the audience nor material.
Yes, but the absence of anyone qualified doesn't validate those that are willing yet are obviously unable.
If they're not going to do it right, then no, not at all. As has been said numerous times. As why Fallout is considered the spiritual successor of Wasteland even over Wasteland's own sequel Fountain of Dreams. Someone else can do the same to Fallout, instead of (again) making a half-ass product with Fallout's name on it.
For fuck's sake, how many times do you have to read about the "Remember Wasteland?" reference before it will sink in? The only reason why Fargo and Interplay couldn't use the Wasteland name was due to the rights being owned by EA. So now it's okay to use the name but not offer the gameplay or anything else?
As for the rest of Interplay's line-up, most come far closer to dungeon crawlers, but many were far more towards P&P style and depth than Bethesda's style, as the Interplay developers actually had the patience to play P&P.
Thanks for parroting, but if you only knew the real reason why the developers are being told to shut up, it's because whenever they open their mouths - they don't know what to say or how to say it, even for the dipshits whose job it is to know what to say and how to say it.
Did you bother to read any of my post, what VDweller said, what either of us have said, or is this simply the follow-up troll attempt? Keep believing that they "might" have the pointers, but their bumbling around in the interviews and lack of anything coherent in lieu of continued marketing shit makes it clear the project is not in good hands. Fact is, Bethesda has had an idea of what to do with Fallout long before they bought it, some VP just doesn't go off and make spending/development decisions just like that on their own without a plan behind it to see the title through to release. Otherwise, without a plan, it just doesn't happen.
So far, development is going along as planned. For the X-Box. Please bother to think that point out before you start making any more vapid bullshit excuses for them. They can "uh" and "err" all the excuses they want after we report each and every one of their lies as news items.
Morbus
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Why does hearing Fallout 3 is coming out to XBox break my heart?Roshambo said:So far, development is going along as planned. For the X-Box. Please bother to think that point out before you start making any more vapid bullshit excuses for them. They can "uh" and "err" all the excuses they want after we report each and every one of their lies as news items.
Is there any actual reason (despite the XBox main public) for us to think that any console game sucks? Why is Fallout 3 for XBox = shitty game? Or is it not equal? I mean... The only difference would be the controls, but in a TB combat game (which unfortunately is not, most probably, going to happen) they don't matter much and a gampad may take care of it... Or can it? Is it just the XBox public?