Wasteland 3 and Torment: Tides of Numenera news

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It is no secret that Fallout 4 was a disappointment to many long time fans of the series. As a result the increase in traffic we had due to Fallout 4 has died off a bit as most things that needed to be said about that game have already been repeated time and time again. In an effort to liven things up a bit around here we plan on increasing our news output partly by expanding our content to non-Fallout related stuff, and hopefully with the help of some of you we can Make NMA Great Again, so without further delay we have a wide variety of post apocalyptic goodness in store for you.


Recently in the Official Xbox Magazine something somewhat worrying was mentioned thereby causing a nerd uproar in places like RPGCodex.


Chris Keenan, Official XBox Magazine #145 Interview, 11-16-2016 wrote:
"A turn-based combat system can sometimes slow things down unnecessarily. I think that was something that with Wasteland we could definitely improve on and make it feel a little more snappy. There's going to be less of a micro-management aspect with your party. In Wasteland 2 you tended to have seven party members with six or seven different weapon skills you could choose, and we're going to try and condense those down. We want to make sure that the focus is on the strategy of the combat, not on the micro-managing of your statistics in combat and the weapons."
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At Inxile forums many of the fans are not happy with some being afraid of further "streamlining". The micromanagement part of the game is where a lot of the character creation really paid off. Is multiplayer really what the fans want?

Some of the uproar was perhaps unfounded it seems when one of the developers then elaborated on some things the fans were angry about:

Hey guys, thanks for voicing your thoughts. However, you are reading too much into that interview. In Wasteland 3, we're still building on Wasteland 2's party-based system and giving you the ability to create and customize Rangers. The main difference is we're planning for you to start out as a single character, before forming a full party out of created characters and companions.
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Personally I would prefer if they put their resources into other aspects of the game that were lacking, but it is too early to tell to be for sure. Wasteland 3's crowdfunding over at Fig was a success by 113% https://www.fig.co/campaigns/wasteland-3#updates

While the Fig one has closed down you can still pledge over at CrowdOX: https://app.crowdox.com/projects/100109/wasteland-3

And Torment: Tides of Numenera finally has a release date it seems of February 2017.

In other post apocalyptic news we have a Chinese Mad Max rip-off which looks like a fun goofy b-film called Mad Shelia. You gotta love those creative titles.

http://www.slashfilm.com/chinese-mad-max-rip-off/

With still no idea about when the next Mad Max will start filming this might be the closest thing we will get, however sad that might be it should be worth a gander.

Thanks to @Mr Fish for informing us of the news and as always stay classy NMA.
 
Chris Keenan said:
We want to make sure that the focus is on the strategy of the combat, not on the micro-managing of your statistics in combat and the weapons."
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Hey guys, thanks for voicing your thoughts. However, you are reading too much into that interview. In Wasteland 3, we're still building on Wasteland 2's party-based system and giving you the ability to create and customize Rangers. The main difference is we're planning for you to start out as a single character, before forming a full party out of created characters and companions.
Click to expand...
That reply seems to miss the point. By what I understand I don't think the fans were enraged they couldn't make a full party... I think they were worried that combat will be streamlined and focused more on "cool and easy" than focused on the characters' skills, stats and weapons.

A note: Even in Wasteland 2 I only ever make 1 custom character. I then fill my party with other companions available in the game. Ever since Baldur's Gate games I always loved companion "banter" and interaction, makes the game more interesting and fun for me, while a "all custom characters" party lose that "charm".
 
I remember a lot of complaints about the Director's Cut for Wasteland 2 where they altered the UI and since it coincided with the release of the console versions of the game fans said that the game had become consolized in that aspect. I personally don't find it to be worse or necessarily better, just different. Still, that's something. Another thing is that InXile got a publisher for Wasteland 3 despite going to crowdfunding for part of the games development as well as wanting a simultaneous release on the PC, Xbox One and Playstation 4. Then there are some other decisions I don't really like in the "gameplay" video they released where the NPC was fully voice acted, had a zoom in camera with animations. And then there is the multiplayer elements which seems to be inspired from Divinity Original Sin 2 (was DOS1 more successful than WL2?)

Now, InXile is a business first and foremost and wanting to branch out and cater to a wider audience makes sense from a business perspective and I don't think that you can't try to cater to a wider audience. Look at XCOM, it was widely successful despite being a tactical squad-based turn-based combat game but I bet my left nut that they would not have seen the same amount of success had that game not had those 'action-scenes' for when you shoot or run and an enemy on overwatch shoots at you.

So it depends on how much they intend to cater to the 'wider audience' and what might be lost with it. But who knows what could be gained? Maybe it will outclass Wasteland 2 because it is a far more fine-tuned game? (Though with the amount of darts they are throwing at the board I doubt that...)

Fans of Wasteland 1 were divided on Wasteland 2 and some felt like it did not live up at all to Wasteland 1. Now I played Wasteland 1 (never made it to Base Cochise though but I did everything else) and it is a game from a completely different time which had to make do with certain limitations that forced the game to turn out the way it did and modernizing those elements might be difficult to do right so I'm ambivalent(?) about how it turned out.

There is also always the question of what the original intention of a game was and what they were actually capable of producing with the limitations/budget/resources at the time. To me it seemed like some almost wanted a carbon copy of Wasteland 1 which I find absurd. A game should evolve organically to find a sweet spot and perfect it. Who are any of us really to say that what they want out of WL2 or even WL3 isn't what they always wanted Wasteland to be?

Wasteland 3 is an evolution, but is it an evolution in the direction fans want? Is it an evolution in the direction of where the market is going? Is it an evolution of what the developers always wanted it to be? Or is it just a mutation forced by the elements around it?

I have no idea. I don't feel comfortable nailing InXile to a cross just yet but I am worried about the direction they are taking the game.

[edit]

Then again, we always have this vision document to hold InXile accountable to.
Scroll down to the PILLARS section.

Something I found interesting there was:
Important elements have been lost over time, sacrificed to technology, art constraints, voice-over expenses, and multi-platform console constraints. Wasteland 2 has no such limitations, it brings these RPG elements back, takes them out of the attic, and makes them part of gameplay again.
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Technology - The multiplayer aspect of the game. I haven't played Torment yet so the only game of InXile I've played since their return to glory has been Wasteland 2 and it was quite lacking in a lot of ways and they are hyping the multiplayer aspect up in far too many ways and I fear they're going to spread themselves too thin and ultimately limiting themselves in how deep the singleplayer experience will be.

Art constraints - The graphics from the "gameplay" video, they look expensive to me...

Voice-over expenses - The "gameplay" video implies that NPC's will be voice acted.

Multi-platform console constraints - WL3 is set for an Xbox One and Playstation 4 release at the same time the PC version rolls out.

I haven't had time to dig through the rest of the vision document, we'll see if I can nitpick more stuff later.
 
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I don't mind a multi-player aspect as long as get game is good.

I think WL2 is extremely good, but it has a number of flaws.
For one, I'm not too keen on the colour palette, I get that it's a desert, but even the original fallouts took an interesting approach in that regard.

Also, I find some of the VA over the top cringey.
 
I honestly can't understand the logic of the people thinking that the excessive micromanagement and slow paced combat was a quality rather than a flaw in WL2.

I am, myself, skeptical about the final quality of WL3, but that is not because of the things that developers are saying they want to do differently from WL2, it's because of the things they didn't say that they were going to change from the previous game. WL2 suffered heavily from having poor writing, uninteresting story, boring dialog, lack of roleplaying and lack of depth to the choice and consequences system. I haven't seem any signs of Inxile taking any real compromises on improving the game on these areas.
 
Eumesmopo said:
I honestly can't understand the logic of the people thinking that the excessive micromanagement and slow paced combat was a quality rather than a flaw in WL2.

I am, myself, skeptical about the final quality of WL3, but that is not because of the things that developers are saying they want to do differently from WL2, it's because of the things they didn't say that they were going to change from the previous game. WL2 suffered heavily from having poor writing, uninteresting story, boring dialog, lack of roleplaying and lack of depth to the choice and consequences system. I haven't seem any signs of Inxile taking any real compromises on improving the game on these areas.
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In the "gameplay" video it seems like they are trying to write a dialogue system where the player will have agency over your PC's personality and it appears to be quite branching too. So that's one way that the RPG elements of the game is going to be improved. (I never liked the topic dialogue bullshit, I've never liked it in any game I've played. I'm glad to see it gone)

 
Mr Fish said:
In the "gameplay" video it seems like they are trying to write a dialogue system where the player will have agency over your PC's personality and it appears to be quite branching too. So that's one way that the RPG elements of the game is going to be improved. (I never liked the topic dialogue bullshit, I've never liked it in any game I've played. I'm glad to see it gone)

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That indeed seems like it's going to be a huge improvement. The cannibal gang that eats people for no clearly explained reason doesn't inspire much faith on the storytelling side of things however.
 
Raiders in a hostile land which may not have an abundance of food + starvation = cannibal lottery.
That's the way I figure it. I don't really like cartoonishly evil gangs either but I mean, cannibalistic tribes has always existed and I don't see why it should be any different in a post-apocalyptic setting. Maybe there is backstory to them in diaries or computer terminals or even dialogue if we choose a peaceful route with them as well.

I don't really care. But if they're going to go on and on about grey morality (which it seems like they do from the articles and interviews I've read) then it would probably have been better if they chose a more morally grey faction to showcase in this video.
 
InXile keeps edging closer and closer with their Wasteland sequels, to what Fallout 3 should have been at release. At least they get it.
I told some of them (in person; when asked) that I thought Wasteland 2 was the best Fallout sequel I'd ever seen. (Perhaps not what they wanted to hear ~but it's true.)

I did like the subtle [and much needed] homage to Wasteland 1's UI.
ui-1_zpssyprke4j.jpg
 
So far, I trust Inxile and I backed Wasteland 3 with no regret.
It's funny how Fallout Tactics ended up as the most forgotten Fallout title of the franchise, and yet, one of the most influential one (think about what the recent Xcom titles owe to Tactics, for example). Wasteland 3, potentially the ultimate redemption of the Fallout franchise, will probably get its nobility title by returning to Tactics' core ideas. Vehicles, management between missions and multiplayer feature. That's interesting. I'm very curious about the base management gameplay, something that can really add something to the table.
Oh, and the travel system. With the cold environment, Inxile could pick ideas from Icy. Excellent little game with a brillant system for managing supplies, cold and food during travels. I'd love to see these elements implemented in Wasteland 3. Being forced to raid villages for food and shelter, if you didn't anticipate the travel, which would impact your reputation. Being able to run low on food or fire, which affects your health when you arrive on location (or die on the way). Being forced to stay close to forests in order to hunt during the trip etc. Excellent little ideas, easy to implement.
 
Mr Fish said:
In the "gameplay" video it seems like they are trying to write a dialogue system where the player will have agency over your PC's personality and it appears to be quite branching too. So that's one way that the RPG elements of the game is going to be improved. (I never liked the topic dialogue bullshit, I've never liked it in any game I've played. I'm glad to see it gone)

Click to expand...

What they really should do though, is speeding up the animations a little. It would look much better in a hostile situation like a firefight, if it had some urgency. People usually don't 'walk' to find cover, they run as fast as they can.
 
Gizmojunk said:
I did like the subtle [and much needed] homage to Wasteland 1's UI.
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This cinematic style with huge 3D characters boggling behind the transparent dialogue window is very annoying. (Seems that I cannot into modern gaming anymore.)
 
I backed Wasteland 3 (digital copy + alpha access 43$) and Torment (digital copy and beta access 55$)

I'm happy I did so. I never played the original Wasteland simply because I felt its one of those older games I might have sat down and played a lot of as a kid but seems too obtuse and outdated for me to try right now. I love Fallout 1-2 however, as I have played them multiple times. I have no experience to the original Wasteland and only know a little bit about it so I ultimately ended up comparing it to Fallout 1-2. I think Wasteland 2 was a fantastic game and one of the best of 2014. The directors cut which I played when it came out (I played it twice so far, once on release and once more with directors cut release) was an improvement I felt in several areas. It has in my opinion better/more in depth and more engaging combat than Fallout. I actually liked the turn based combat just as much as I liked XCOM's. I like the hardcore stat min maxing, leveling and inventory management. Every playthrough you would end up with a more well rounded and better squad as you further understood the mechanics. This reminded me a lot of system shock 2 and original fallout's which I love. If I could give it an arbitrary numerical score it be a solid 9/10.

I wouldn't say its perfect though and you need to overlook some flaws/slow pacing/rough edges. Technically speaking its not as polished as it could be, the combat needed more balance and difficulty spikes in the second half of the game were brutal. I also felt the party system limited character role playing and overall left little room to express yourself like Fallout did. The game was at its best when it through you into large open town areas with many quests that could be solved in multiple ways with unique characters. I even felt the dungeons were mostly solid if over done. I just wish there were more ways to solve something. Granted quests could end differently based on your choices, but certain "good" outcomes were obtuse, finicky, vague or required high amount of a useless skill like perception. But overall I would still be happy to play it again.

Wasteland 3 feels like an improvement in every aspect. I honestly don't mind the flashier or more modern aspects of it. It opens the game up to more people without necessarily dumbing it down and makes it easier to sit down and enjoy. Dont get me wrong I like my old school isometric RPG's but its a lot easier to get into Pillars of Eternity than Baldurs Gate.

As for Torment..I played the original Planescape Torment because so many people kept recommending it to me. I never finished it but got around half way through it. Its very well written, plays with interesting ideas, has great characters, unique setting, nice choice/consequence, does death interestingly and has a stellar story. Buuuut, there is a lot wrong with it I feel. The combat while avoidable is AWFUL and the forced combat sections a chore. While I can roleplay through convo's/choice I feel mechanical roleplaying is pretty bad. If you want to properly enjoy the game you have to play with certain stats and that's just kinda lame. Also I feel fallout has aged a lot better. Torment (2017) felt like more or less of what I liked about Planescape but better. Looks better, I like the setting more (more scifi), and combat is fleshed out and uncommon. The beta really impressed me however I did not see all the content for it to avoid spoilers.
 
valcik said:
This cinematic style with huge 3D characters boggling behind the transparent dialogue window is very annoying. (Seems that I cannot into modern gaming anymore.)
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I would have preferred something more like this:
WL3_concept_zpsduzqxqrs.gif
 
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Not to be a negative Nancy, but there has been actual Fallout related news with the announcements of Fallout Pinball and the themed DLC for Minecraft. Is it the news you want ? probably not, but that's how the ship sails these days. I do appreciate the effort though because I do love this place .
 
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