Why can't Bethesda fans see the forest for the trees?

RoboStang

RoboStang

First time out of the vault
First post. I've been lurking this forum for a few months but haven't joined mainly because I hold very similar views to most of the people here so I didn't have much to contribute.

Moving on, I've seen a fair share of comments from bethesda fans on reddit, facebook pages, youtube comments, etc. to realize that while they can be relentless fanboys, many of them gladly criticize the aspects of Fallout 4 that are downright awful. Pretty much the entire internet despises Preston Garvey and those excrutiatingly annoying radiant quests. Very few people will defend the dialogue system.

If game features the most annoying video game character of all time, it might be a bad game!

Fallout 4 is a bad RPG and most people will admit that it has very limited choice and consequence.

If I recall correctly, some members of this site state that the combat system is good. While it is certainly an improvement from previous games, it really is a joke among shooters. I've recently gone back and played two 2007 games shooters, Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4, and I've got to say they are fantastic FPS games. It's difficult to describe why these 9 year old games are so superior as shooters to Fallout 4, because it is mostly a feel. Fallout 4's FPS mechanics feel very sloppy. The only analogy I have is the feeling of driving cars that have manual gearboxes; you just "know" why one is better than the other, but it's hard to explain why. The bullet sponges are the nail on the coffin for the combat system. Does ANYONE honestly enjoy shooting stupid super mutant orcs in the head 10 times with a .45? That's not a challenge, it's a chore. A challenge is veteran mode in the old call of duty games where you die almost instantly if you get shot, but so do the enemies. It forces you to be very quick, stay in fortified spots, and not camp too long because of grenade spamming.

So, Fallout 4 really does not establish itself as a good shooter.

While Far Harbor looks very pretty, I think it is mostly because it's set in a forest and has a lot of flat land which the creation engine excels with. The base game has some very pathetic graphics in the urban areas, and the frame rate drops are rampant. Excluding weapon renderings, the game's graphics are unacceptable for a 2015 game. Not to mention Bethesda's gamebryo/creation engine is one of the worst piece of shit engines I've ever seen in a video game.

So, Fallout 4 really does not establish itself as a "new-generation game."

I'd also like to mention the facial and body animations. The lip movements are monstrously bad. I don't understand how that happened. Call of Duty games from 07/08 have far superior facial animations.

Coming full circle, I'd like to hear why you guys think so many people in the Fallout community criticize the game for some of the problems I mentioned, then turn around and say "I still think it was an amazing game, 9/10." They can't see the forest for the trees. Yet other communties, Call of Duty for example, have openly crucified Activision for their bullshit. The trailer for Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare game is the 2nd most disliked video on youtube. Or take the Star Wars community and their condemnation of George Lucas and the prequels. These fan bases realize when the creators are making repetitive, unoriginal content, but Bethesda's doesn't. Why?
 
I always see that a line has to be crossed in order for a fan base to condem what they follow. With Star Wars, it was due to the old films being part of everyday pop culture. They were big enough for people to grow up with them in a family environment, and those who enjoyed them when they came out, understood what they were doing.
COD mostly got backlash because it is a tired series stretched thin. The franchise at this point is on life support, they need to take a few years off to garner fresh ideas.

Fallout is still rather fresh with Bethesda fans, not only is this the second game developed by the studio, but for many others, they are picking up where Skyrim left off. For most people, F4 is their second or third Bethesda game (not counting New Vegas, but I will get to that in a second).
But even I can see that support for the game is dropping, I've seen a lot of people call it a disappointment, many are comparing it to New Vegas (which added a lot great things to the series and is proof that the setting could work in 3D).

I've said it before, but Bethesda need to do something new next time if they want to keep that fan base. They can't do the same story again they've done Four times already, they need to move on.
And with games like Witcher 3 proving that people want more deeper and more meaningful stories and choices in their games, it's time Bethesda did something new.

Or maybe Fallout 5 is the game that loses their credibility.
 
"Todd Howard is a mudak"
Sorry, but... In which slavik tongue it is written?
 
0wing said:
"Todd Howard is a mudak"
Sorry, but... In which slavik tongue it is written?
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"Mudak" is Russian IIRC.

The average Bethesda fan also suffer of one thing... He does not think for himself, he only likes or dislikes if someone or something tells him it is good or bad, and once they heard it the first time, no one can change their mind, until they grow up a bit and realise what they defended so hard some years ago is something they do not like after all.
 
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I think it also has something to do with hype. Most of the modern Fallout fanbase, who are sadly the majority, are into spectacle, quick gratification and having random unintentional adventures (like 3) rather than a slow but well-crafted experience (like 1, 2 and/or New Vegas) so whenever Beth needs to garner a strong reaction, they get Todd to present the game while highlighting all those features that those people want and making as seemingly in-game promotional materials that only looks good as a presentation while ensuring no one gets a closer look. As a result of this, they get caught up in the positive hype (especially when people begin cheering) that certain gaming websites will contribute to, allowing them the capability to willfully ignore glaring flaws (something I've always found perplexing about gamers these days).

Millim said:
I've said it before, but Bethesda need to do something new next time if they want to keep that fan base. They can't do the same story again they've done Four times already, they need to move on.
And with games like Witcher 3 proving that people want more deeper and more meaningful stories and choices in their games, it's time Bethesda did something new.

Or maybe Fallout 5 is the game that loses their credibility.
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In a perfect world, perhaps that will happen. Nowadays, gaming seems to be big in creating fanbases who get caught onto hype that they ignore glaring flaws so I have a bad feeling that Beth will continue wringing money out of their existing fanbase by sticking to their formula.
 
Why can't Bethesda fans see the forest from the trees?
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Brand loyalty induced perception disorder. I don't think they are even looking at the forest nor the trees, they take what is given and what is given is always the best thing.
 
I think that most people find different things in games especially ones like Fallout, but what I and I suspect most of NMA were looking for was a RPG experience akin to 1, 2 and NV. But most of Bethesdrones were waiting for a new place to explore rather than a deep branching well written narrative. If I am right then it is not condemnable really but I'll argue the defence of RPG over world design every time.
 
Yea why would people expect an RPG from a game franchise where literally every single previous game has been an RPG? (sarcasm)

I don't see how an actual Fallout fan can be happy with Fallout 4 as an RPG. I do however see how Bethesda fanboys think it is the deepest RPG ever made.
 
Irwin John Finster said:
Yea why would people expect an RPG from a game franchise where literally every single previous game has been an RPG? (sarcasm)

I don't see how an actual Fallout fan can be happy with Fallout 4 as an RPG. I do however see how Bethesda fanboys think it is the deepest RPG ever made.
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I feel like this is a shot at me and if i'm wrong I'm sorry for misunderstanding but I agree with you I was just trying to answer the question posed and put myself in a Bethesda fan-boy's shoes, and not that I am not annoyed at all that Bethesda have ripped the heart of Fallout out right before our eyes and rubbing it in our faces.
Summary: I was trying to be objective.
 
I think it's simple. For the most part, it's obvious they haven't played video games at all to be adequately informed on topics like game design, and also design principles/philosophy. Even if they do have played video games before, it's obvious they haven't played enough or at least haven't tried any of the previous entry (to the point of blatantly stated they are 'outdated', thus lack of awareness that, and I quote RangerBoo's signature, "Good games are like fine wine. They taste better with age.") If you carefully observed, most of average Bethesda's fans can only throw words like 'immersive', 'fun', 'I still enjoy it', 'You just don't like change!', and 'It's still a good game, though', even as their opposition gave many case point that rooted in game designs and its' principles, which is objective. The first 3 statement are obviously subjective, and to state that would only waste their own time, especially since they didn't at all contribute to the discussion. The 4th statement is absolutely retarded, and the 5th statement need actual backup and legit argument because calling something 'Good' is objective. Of course, it become subjective should the speaker adds, '....for me.' and everybody would be fine.

I mean, okay, nobody is trying to invalidate their enjoyment and the fact that they had fun, heck people here sometimes admitted they still have some fun, but the mindless kind of fun and that's not what they were looking for in a Fallout game. However, if you want to call something good, you have to bring legit, sound argument to the table. Heck, the other day I was taking a look at the comment section for YouTube video (I really need to stop doing that, for my own good) of NMA for Van Buren. There's this guy who were 'glad this didn't work out', and how Bethesda buying the IP was a good move for the 'community'. Arguments ensued, and then there's an apologist for the comment's OP, saying how 'this is the internet, no one is allowed to enjoy things they enjoy'. Fucking hypocrite didn't notice OP has stated, 'glad Van Buren didn't work out' which obviously means OP didn't want to allow the actual community to enjoy things they enjoy.

Of course, none of what I've said here would change anything, since the target audience of Bethesda are massive, and there's actively rabid fanboy (not generalizing here, I noticed there's always that one guy, especially on YouTube) that would try to just do anything to invalidate legit arguments as 'opinion', to the point that Gopher and even TotalBiscuit has to stop and say, "But it's still a good game" for (what I saw as) fear of dislikes, and for the internet dislikes and downvotes would mean shit.

Now, now,
I'm relatively new to Fallout franchise, yet I'm already tired of talking about Bethesda, their dumbass games, and whoever the fuck have the guts to defend those pieces of shit. I haven't even played Fallout 4 yet here I am in Fallout 4 Subforum, which is dumb of me. Damn, NMA, you guys are badass for going through this kind of experience for years, no matter if it's bunch of AccountNameM or newcomers who didn't realize you guys have had this discussion for millennia. Though, maybe this time due to me having a bad day for now...
 
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VforVelcro said:
I feel like this is a shot at me and if i'm wrong I'm sorry for misunderstanding but I agree with you I was just trying to answer the question posed and put myself in a Bethesda fan-boy's shoes, and not that I am not annoyed at all that Bethesda have ripped the heart of Fallout out right before our eyes and rubbing it in our faces.
Summary: I was trying to be objective.
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Not directed at you or anything no worries mate sorry for misunderstanding.

There are some people saying that negative reviewers were "expecting an RPG when they shouldn't have" and I was just commenting on that.
 
VforVelcro said:
But most of Bethesdrones were waiting for a new place to explore rather than a deep branching well written narrative. If I am right then it is not condemnable really but I'll argue the defence of RPG over world design every time.
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Even just judging it on these terms, I felt that F4's world was largely a disappointing rehash of F3. I suppose it's neat to see some of Boston's landmarks, but for the most part, one ruined metropolis looks an awful lot like another. There were the same types of buildings to explore - hospitals, offices, etc. There were the same types of enemies to fight - Super Mutants, ghouls, hordes of generic raiders, the occasional mole rat or mirelurk, etc. I guess this is part of the reason why I liked Far Harbor a lot more than the base game. It actually felt like something new.
 
Who are these 'fans' you speak of? It looks like to me that everyone but the most hardcore have dropped this dog turd already.


http://steamcharts.com/cmp/377160,72850#1y

It's over ... no one is even sticking around to see if their Season Pass impulse buy was worth it ... This will stick in every gamer's mind as as the tedious / sub-par / average one. If not now then soon with enough distance from the glow of the mass hype hysteria, just like Phantom Menace.
 
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Deeves said:
Who are these 'fans' you speak of? It looks like to me that everyone but the most hardcore have dropped this dog turd already.


http://steamcharts.com/cmp/377160,72850#1y

It's over ... no one is even sticking around to see if their Season Pass impulse buy was worth it ... This will stick in every gamer's mind as as the tedious / sub-par / average one. If not now then soon with enough distance from the glow of the mass hype hysteria, just like Phantom Menace.
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Wait, it took Fallout 4 two and a half months to drop down to the same amount of players as Skyrim?
Isn't that absolutely pathetic for a Bethesda game?
 
0wing said:
It's more like sine wave after april 2016. But the overall result is not that great anyway.
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At februari 1 Fallout 4 only got 13.000 more players than Skyrim does. I'd say that is roughly within the same ballpark. My point was just that Skyrim is a 5 year old game and Fallout 4 is months old at that point yet it 'barely' has more players than Skyrim does.
 
Mr Fish said:
My point was just that Skyrim is a 5 year old game and Fallout 4 is months old at that point yet it 'barely' has more players than Skyrim does.
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More suprising how a 5 yrs old game is still in.
Oh and BTW, The Witcher 3 is finally surpassed F4 in number of players.
 
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