Why do you think a crossbow was never added?

[:::SILUS:::]

I get it, but it's still 200 years..........in a nuclear wasteland. What do you think how many of those weapons would eventually manage to survive, no matter how well maintained they are (which they are most certainly not, because most of the people live on the edge of existence).

I imagine salvage and repair would take on full time businesses...
Small bands of salvagers selling their wares to wastelanders for profit, keeping the best for themselves and providing weapons to others...
Bands of raiders that kill wastelanders for fun and or loot... weapons being broken or lost, and salvagers starting the cycle all over again.

Eventually the need to fabricate replacement parts brings a new bit to the cycle, thus groups like the gun runners appear.

Replaceable parts keeps guns in circulation for a long time...

Even if most of those guns magically survived til the Gun Runners showed up, do you really think that people travel to them from all over the US in an epic journey across a radioactive continent in order for the Gun Runners to repair a 200 years old pistol? Really? And then they make the journey home, spend the ammo and after a while go on another Exodus to the Gun Runners or some other of the handful existing weapons manufacturers because their 200 year old pistol needs more ammo? Really?

 

[whirlingdervish]

I wonder how easy it would be to build a bow from scrap materials.
A normal, wooden bow would be complicated in the world of Fallout as there are not many young, fresh trees around.
So a compound bow would be the best option.
The problem is the material of the limbs, which has to be able to take a lot of tensile and compressive forces.
Maybe leaf springs from a car? They must not be too thick.
The riser should be no problem, neither should be the cams or the strings.
The arrows could be, but there should be enough scrap metal around to make working arrows.
Of course, a compound crossbow would be possible, too, if one would find suitable materials for the limbs.

Car leaf springs are absolutely perfect for it. That's what people usually use when making a homemade crossbow. Check Youtube, the best homemade crossbows are usually made off car leaf springs. The thing is wild, goes through car hoods like butter.

Car hoods are very thin gauge mild steel. All told they are a pretty crappy way to test the effectiveness of a weapon meant to kill things, and when body armor is considered they are complete shit.

My shotgun blows holes the size of a softball through a car hood from outside the effective range of any home-made crossbow, with readily available and easily hand crafted bird shot.
Shotguns are all over the place as are the ammo for them.

Given the choice, would you rather put a little metal stick in someone at a range of maybe 40 feet, at a speed they could probably dodge it, or hit them with a blast of hot lead at 1000 feet per second from 40 yards.

I'd go with the latter, and not even because they are incredibly easy to find, use, maintain and reload by comparison: They are outright more effective. You don't have to be anywhere near as accurate to use a shotgun and kill something.


I have a feeling you have not ever tried to actually make a bow or kill anything of reasonable size, and that instead you are yet another youtube guru who thinks that because someone somewhere made something once and made a video of it, that every damn idiot in the world can do the same with nothing but a toothpick and a leafspring.

I am an engineer by trade. I have access to a full blown metal shop and it would still take me quite a few weeks with power tools to craft an effective and elegant crossbow action from raw materials and then make it into something worth carrying around for self defense.

You'd be better served taking the leaf spring, sharpening it into a spearhead and mounting it on a stick. A relative idiot could do that, where it would take a person with a fairly high degree of education, an understanding of weapon physics and building materials, and a lot of time on their hands to craft a useful crossbow.

Remove the access to tools and education and the odds get very slim of these occuring in the same place.
Consider that more effective and cheaper weapons abound, and the idea becomes ludicrous that someone would make a crossbow from scratch that did anything worth noting in terms of damage.

 

[Ilosar]

People are overestimating crossbows; they are silent, and that's basically the sole advantage they have over guns in a world like Fallout where the latter are aplenty (which is unrealistic, yes, but it's been like that since the first game, just roll with it). Even pistols (especially the huge revolvers present in the game) have more effective range and are more accurate, not to mention have a much higher rate of fire, ability to cause damage, penetration, need less training to properly use, it goes on. Not only that, try designing something like that from scratch (as Dervish pointed out), and see if your scrap metal holds long against the torque needed to propel a bolt fast enough at more than 50 meters. There's a reason Crossbows were phased out almost as soon as guns were introduced, they do the same thing much better.

Also, someone mentioned a bow. Boy, that's a whole new level of time and complexity to build a good one and properly train archers to kill gun-armed dudes and the monsters inhabiting the Wasteland. Not the sort of thing you do when you're a tribal with next to no education; if you're anything else, there's a chance you might a access to a much more trustworthy gun.

 

[TheDidact]

U mad~

Yup, I mad.

 

[Old Man Vee]

Even if most of those guns magically survived til the Gun Runners showed up, do you really think that people travel to them from all over the US in an epic journey across a radioactive continent in order for the Gun Runners to repair a 200 years old pistol? Really? And then they make the journey home, spend the ammo and after a while go on another Exodus to the Gun Runners or some other of the handful existing weapons manufacturers because their 200 year old pistol needs more ammo? Really?

More likely than people having the foresight to strip cars for crossbow parts.

Honestly the strangest weapons to exist in the game are flamethrowers... The world was in a fuel crisis... I mean COME ON!

Spears make much more sense, they can be thrown, can be used in close quarters, and are much more reusable... An in between weapon doesn't make sense from a technological standpoint.

THAT BEING SAID, I can see one of the more creative types experimenting with weapon designs and perhaps coming up with one to sell for profit.
Having a crossbow as a unique weapon for that sort of situation seems plausible.

 

[James Snowscoran]

I was thinking more to the point of shortly after the bombs fell... After that point, you maintain and repair the weapons that are in circulation... They become family heirlooms, much in the way that early firearms were.
I'm sure many weapons would not be in perfect condition... But it's much easier to repair a weapon than it is to create a new one.
And if you happen to find broken guns in the ruins of the lost civilization, you use the working parts from that gun to repair the more working one you have.

I get it, but it's still 200 years..........in a nuclear wasteland. What do you think how many of those weapons would eventually manage to survive, no matter how well maintained they are (which they are most certainly not, because most of the people live on the edge of existence).

The thing is, ingame lore says you're wrong; functioning guns are widespread, and pre-war firearms are plentiful and working fine. The Goodsprings settlers have firearms. So do the Primm residents. Lots of pre-war weapons caches remain unfound, and the Boomers have armed their entire community to the teeth using only pre-war equipment. Then there's the Gun Runners, running several manufacturing operations not just in Cali but also in Vegas. If someone were to make a crossbow in the Fallout world, it would not be because of gun scarcity.

 

[RRBM]

Screws crossbows, I want a sling.

But seriously though, didn't it mention in Fallout that the Brotherhood were responsible for fabricating a lot of the firearms found in the wasteland?

That's one of the jobs of a BoS Knight, right?

 

[Sabirah]

Screws crossbows, I want a sling.

But seriously though, didn't it mention in Fallout that the Brotherhood were responsible for fabricating a lot of the firearms found in the wasteland?

That's one of the jobs of a BoS Knight, right?

Them and the NCR yes. both of them (and the gunrunners, and the van graffs) can build high powered sniper rifles that can crack power armor. Crossbows are/would be obsolete by the time of NV IMO

 

[Hassknecht]

Also, someone mentioned a bow. Boy, that's a whole new level of time and complexity to build a good one and properly train archers to kill gun-armed dudes and the monsters inhabiting the Wasteland. Not the sort of thing you do when you're a tribal with next to no education; if you're anything else, there's a chance you might a access to a much more trustworthy gun.

Depending on the type of bow, a basic bow could be as easy as a crossbow. The most basic type of compound bow could be made from junkyard materials.
Wooden bows would be hard, there's rarely any fresh wood left.
But of course they are useless against any opponents with firearms, which are plenty (for whatever reason) in Fallout.

But don't underestimate tribals. After all, pretty much all tribals in our world have mastered building bows and archery as a whole.
I would definitely expect post nuclear tribals to be inventive with their weapons. Spears, slings, bows, that sort of stuff. If they don't have access to firearms, do you really think they wouldn't at least try to make themselves something better than rocks and sharp sticks?
Tribals got a lot of time on their hands

 

[ramessesjones]

The thing is, ingame lore says you're wrong; functioning guns are widespread, and pre-war firearms are plentiful and working fine. The Goodsprings settlers have firearms. So do the Primm residents. Lots of pre-war weapons caches remain unfound, and the Boomers have armed their entire community to the teeth using only pre-war equipment. Then there's the Gun Runners, running several manufacturing operations not just in Cali but also in Vegas. If someone were to make a crossbow in the Fallout world, it would not be because of gun scarcity.

This isn't universally true for every group in the game though, most notably Caesar's Legion where there aren't enough guns to go around for all of their soldiers. If I was a machete wielding front line grunt a bow or crossbow wouldn't seem to be that bad of choice as a second weapon. The same would apply if I was a freeside thug and had only a pool cue or was hunter for the Sorrows trying to attack things wearing a bear paw.

 

[:::SILUS:::]

This isn't universally true for every group in the game though, most notably Caesar's Legion where there aren't enough guns to go around for all of their soldiers. If I was a machete wielding front line grunt a bow or crossbow wouldn't seem to be that bad of choice as a second weapon. The same would apply if I was a freeside thug and had only a pool cue or was hunter for the Sorrows trying to attack things wearing a bear paw.

Exactly. An army flailing with machetes and spears in their hands against an enemy who's every soldier is armed with at least an assault rifle is utterly retarded.

At least they would have a simple bow and some would most likely have crossbows to penetrate armor.

Who the fuck wouldn't make himself a bow or a crossbow and instead charge an assault rifle wielding a lawn mover blade. If they are heavily indoctrinated, doesn't mean they are retarded.

 

[mobucks]

the weight of a crossbow shaft being behind the pointed end gives it a lot of kinetic energy to punch through things. Id say people here are underestimating them if anything.

 

[Old Man Vee]

This isn't universally true for every group in the game though, most notably Caesar's Legion where there aren't enough guns to go around for all of their soldiers. If I was a machete wielding front line grunt a bow or crossbow wouldn't seem to be that bad of choice as a second weapon. The same would apply if I was a freeside thug and had only a pool cue or was hunter for the Sorrows trying to attack things wearing a bear paw.

Exactly. An army flailing with machetes and spears in their hands against an enemy who's every soldier is armed with at least an assault rifle is utterly retarded.

At least they would have a simple bow and some would most likely have crossbows to penetrate armor.

Who the fuck wouldn't make himself a bow or a crossbow and instead charge an assault rifle wielding a lawn mover blade. If they are heavily indoctrinated, doesn't mean they are retarded.

As a group, you have a better chance of beating soldiers with guns if you charge them in melee than if you use a vastly slower ranged weapon like the crossbow.
And that's not even counting the psychological effects.

 

[mobucks]

Ceasars Legion relies on Skirmishers to enable their melee troops to close with NCR. Without them, they would surely be routed. You cannot assault guns head on with only melee. Even present day mass assaults with both sides having guns expect a 5:1 ratio to cover the huge losses the assault side would incur.

Anyway I still think a crossbow would be the ultimate stealth weapon. There is a reason they are banned in some states.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3bCjD9JnLs[/youtube]

 

[Courier]

Have any of you guys actually ever used a crossbow?

I think Cracked.com sums it up best with,

If you've got a strong stomach, take a look at the picture on this page. Yes, that's a guy with a crossbow bolt sticking out of his chest. Not only did he survive the initial wound, but he survived a seven-hour plane ride to the hospital (it was in Australia, and he was shot in a remote location, presumably by a giant bow and arrow wielding spider we've yet to read about) before the sucker was removed.

How could he do this and survive, you ask? Basically, arrows and other type of longish projectiles tend to stay in the wound, providing a nice plug to hold in the blood and keep things intact. By comparison, getting shot -- something that Hollywood heroes survive in every other scene -- is more dangerous by magnitudes. When a bullet strikes a body, it starts chewing up everything inside, bouncing off bones, tearing major blood vessels open -- just generally doing all it can to kill you.

Ask any hunter who uses a bow, and they'll tell you that it's not uncommon to have to trail an animal for hours after it gets hit by an arrow.

Read more: 5 Things That Aren't Nearly As Dangerous As Hollywood Thinks | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_1917...gerous-as-hollywood-thinks.html#ixzz1WBpRdgSd

Edit: "this page" = this page, http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/72/6/2106

 

[Grec]

Because we all know Cracked is the all knowing precipice of weapon knowledge.


What if that guy was shot by a normal bow instead of a crossbow? Nobody knows who shot him. What if the arrow gave him an infection? What if the guy who shot him put some sort of poison or explosive on the arrow? What if he was living in a post nuclear wasteland were it'd be next to impossible to get medical help, let alone to know that you're supposed to keep the arrow inside you.

 

[Courier]

Because we all know Cracked is the all knowing precipice of weapon knowledge.


What if that guy was shot by a normal bow instead of a crossbow? Nobody knows who shot him. What if the arrow gave him an infection? What if the guy who shot him put some sort of poison or explosive on the arrow? What if he was living in a post nuclear wasteland were it'd be next to impossible to get medical help, let alone to know that you're supposed to keep the arrow inside you.

There are differences between an arrow and a crossbow bolt.

Like I said, have any of you guys actually ever used a crossbow or known someone who has? Try going and shooting a deer with a crossbow, see if it just falls over and dies like in the movies.

You'll be following that deer's trail of blood for hours.

 

[Ilosar]

I have fired a crossbow. Maybe it wasn't a very well built one, but the torque on the thing puts a gun's recoil almost to shame. Reloading took the better part of a minute (then again, I was inexperienced, my friend told me about 20 seconds is a standard, anyone could confirm?). And the effective range was pretty low. There are more advanced types of crossbows, mind you, but this one was created with a Medieval design in mind, or so I was told. Bottom line is, unless you are very knowledeable about it, it's a pretty unwieldy weapon, and strictly inferior to guns by all accounts. The Legion is much better off ambushing NCR patrols with melee weapons than trying to outgun rifles with something that is laughably inacurate past a hundred meters and has a smaller rate of fire than a friggin spear.

Anyway, all this talk is moot. Number one reason is, trying to make a decent-looking animation out of gamebryo is already a feat in itself. Doing a complex, pretty long one, for one type of weapon? Simply not worth all the trouble.

What if that guy was shot by a normal bow instead of a crossbow? Nobody knows who shot him. What if the arrow gave him an infection? What if the guy who shot him put some sort of poison or explosive on the arrow? What if he was living in a post nuclear wasteland were it'd be next to impossible to get medical help, let alone to know that you're supposed to keep the arrow inside you.

What if the guy got shot by a 10mm and bled to death in a few minutes? Also, leave explosive arrows and similar shit to Rambo.

 

[:::SILUS:::]

I'll just leave the sceptics with these little gems:

Ejército uses crossbows.

Greek special forces use crossbows.

Turkish forces use crossbows.

Brazilian CIGS uses crossbows.

Spain's Green Berets use crossbows.

SPETSNAZ uses crossbows.

Chinese armed forces use crossbows AT ALL UNIT LEVELS from traffic police to the special force Snow Leopard Commando Unit of the People's Armed Police and the People's Liberation Army.

The Indian Navy's Marine Force uses crossbows as an alternative to suppressed handguns.

 

[Old Man Vee]

So let them put crossbows in Fallout 5: The Chinese Wasteland.