Why is Fallout 3 so hated?

[Wintermind]

The game was about well written as The Walking Dead, and that's fucking saying something. If you want a much longer list of things, look up a LP of the game on this site or on RPGCodex.

 

[MrMagic]

It is simply a bad game, imo. Even without the Fallout name it would have a stupid story, a non-sensical gameworld, and a horrible fucked up skill system.

What about the gameworld was unrealistic or didn't make sense? Aside from the impossibility of gigantic bugs.

 

[mobucks]

The 200 year old food. The abandoned, wood framed, blown in half houses which would have rotted to dust in 50 years. The existence of wood framed anything still standing 200 years after a nuclear assault leveled the area.

In fallout 1 & 2, almost every populated area had brahma pens or crop fields. You rarely, if ever, saw that in Fallout 3.

It's completely a grade school level of thinking of what a post nuclear society would be like. All flash, no substance. The list could go on I'm sure.

 

[Wintermind]

The list has gone on many times before hand.

I wouldn't really call it gradeschool. I'd call it more Hollywood. Gradeschoolers would actually learn from the experience and might actually make connections about farms and the sort of thing, y'know?

Bethesda is much more just flashy and actiony and badass and cool. And awesome.

 

[Donnellon1960]

I must digress before answering your question; Fallout 3 is not that hated, or at least not hated enough to make a thread about it. I believe the more appropriate question is "why do you, NMA, hate Fallout 3 so much?", because anyone outside of this site seems worship this game like a dead beat worships crack, unless you're coming from some other site that has an "anti-Fallout 3" thread, consisted of replies that completely disagree with all of its reasoning, but you still find it inappropriately blasphemous to its awesomeness (wouldn't be the first time, or even the most recent).

Anyhow, there's not much I could tell you that anyone hasn't already told, but what really kicked me were three main things: story, game play, and atmosphere. All three of those things were done better in pretty much any game you could name, EVEN Call of Duty, and I say that grudgingly. If you don't see what I see in those three elements, I could easily elaborate, but I'll just say that it's as self-explanatory as going to any NMA review, which aren't as biased and whiny as TVTropes likes to beg the differ.

What about the gameworld was unrealistic or didn't make sense? Aside from the impossibility of gigantic bugs.

I'm absolutely at a loss with this post. I've taken the initiative of reading everyone's reasoning towards the senseless game world, but you haven't? That's very lazy, bro. That's VERY lazy. I'll boil it down for you.

>Megaton's leaks should have flooded the town by now, considering it resides in a ditch, completely devoid of a storm drain or irrigation canals.
>Speaking of the lack of irrigation canals, just where is Megaton getting its water? The Potomac River? That couldn't be, because the slopes leading from it to the lake move downward, so that's impossible. Is it coming from a well? Seems more likely, but...
>Why are there unnecessary pipes spidering around the whole damn town? Atmosphere or was the town just thinking impractically?
>And on the topic of edibles, where's the food coming in from? Crops? Can't be, the DJ himself said plants don't grow anymore. If they're buying their food then...
>Where's their source of income? Where are these caps coming from, and why are those 50 cent soda bottles just sitting around, when they COULD very well be selling them and making upwards of five-hundred caps, at least.
>Why aren't the houses only a few yards from Megaton looted clean? Especially when their's a group of hungry raiders living in a school right next to it.
>And why haven't the raiders attacked Megaton again? They tried to explain it by saying that the last time they did it, their leader died, but that was only because they were unorganized. Megaton is hopelessly outgunned by the Raiders in Springvale alone. Think of the raiders at the river, or the overpass, or Wilhelm's .

Trust me, I could go on and on and on. There are literally HUNDREDS of examples...

 

[Lexx]

I'll guess many people are overlooking such elements, because it requires a little bit of thinking. There, I said it. People are too lazy to think about what they consume. It even shows that the developers didn't cared about a coherent game world... or if they did in the design process, they forgot about putting it into the actual game.

 

[autonomousoblast]

The reasons have been repeated on this forum a few million times or so. This game made me lower my standards in gaming just so I could play through this bloody thing, and it still ended up disappointing me.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I'll guess many people are overlooking such elements, because it requires a little bit of thinking. There, I said it. People are too lazy to think about what they consume. It even shows that the developers didn't cared about a coherent game world... or if they did in the design process, they forgot about putting it into the actual game.

Todd Howard by himself said something like "there is no design phase" or no clue, they go straight from the "brainstorming" to the "programming" or "making" of the game.

Yeah ... certainly the best way to do it. Ignore the 30-40 years of experience in software development and don't care about a correct design phase. Thats exactly the reason why you have situations in F3 where your followers, perfectly immune to radiation, like the Supermutant, the Ghoul or the Robot refuse to perform some action thats completely harmless to them as they don't want to rob you from your "destiny" to sacrifise your self for the wasteland. Wtf.

And people seriously ask whats wrong with F3 ...

 

[TorontoReign]

I'll guess many people are overlooking such elements, because it requires a little bit of thinking. There, I said it. People are too lazy to think about what they consume. It even shows that the developers didn't cared about a coherent game world... or if they did in the design process, they forgot about putting it into the actual game.

Todd Howard by himself said something like "there is no design phase" or no clue, they go straight from the "brainstorming" to the "programming" or "making" of the game.

Yeah ... certainly the best way to do it. Ignore the 30-40 years of experience in software development and don't care about a correct design phase. Thats exactly the reason why you have situations in F3 where your followers, perfectly immune to radiation, like the Supermutant, the Ghoul or the Robot refuse to perform some action thats completely harmless to them as they don't want to rob you from your "destiny" to sacrifise your self for the wasteland. Wtf.

And people seriously ask whats wrong with F3 ...

Sums it up perfectly. All who are oblivious to it are, for lack of a better word, awful Fallout fans. The worst kind of fan really. The kind that overlooks or is oblivious to the games faults, even though they are so in your face it is ridiculous. The kind of fan that says, fuck those old games. I played Fallout 3 and that is how shit should be. Give me more loot! What's that skill check shit? Get rid of that altogether. Oh man so many choices! Blow up Megaton or don't! Man I love grinding through the same fucking tunnels over and over to get a new unique weapon, so I can go grind through some more tunnels and find another unique weapon. Oh yeah and I love me some skill books! I just love maxing out my dress up doll! Gotta add those mods with all those new clothes to dress up with. Add more weapons so I can blow more shit up!

I could put together a list of over a hundred complaints right now, but i won't bother, because it's all in the forum. If people really want to know, they can look. There are dozens and dozens of rants, raves, and well thought out raisins for why Fallout 3 is the worst title in the franchise, excluding PoS. The raisins are too many to list actually. I could write a fucking term paper on how bad it is. Maybe even a book titled "A Hundred Raisins Fallout 3 Raped the Franchise", with a giant picture of Todd Howard's smiling face claiming "We don't need no stinking design phase. We just think of cool shit to throw in like the Republic of Dave and Little Lamplight and mutant vampires and aliens and the worst contrived fucking ending in the history of RPG's." Oh and don't forget, if you didn't like the ending you just, like, didn't get it man. It was sooooooo deep. Self sacrifice. Never saw that before.

Die hard Fallout 3 fans ideas for Fallout 4. Wish I was joking:

More armor.
More weapons.
More locations.
More Enclave vs. BoS.
Super Mutants!!!1
Let us continue past the main game.
Magical Bobbleheads. Love those stat bonuses!
Continue upon Mothership Zeta. WTF!?
Display weapons in your doll house. Yay Barbie meets GI Joe!
Perk every level. Gotta collect them all!
Dual wielding. Love my shooters!
Ability to plant and grow food, and raise livestock. Farmville!?
Perk tree system. Completely useless.
Do away with ending slides! Not enough loot in the ending for ya!?
Marriage, have kids, adoption.


This is the thought process of about 75% of Fallout 3 fanatics. More shit to kill, more dress up, more vast expanses of terrain where I can sit down and watch the sunset. Plot is completely extra. The next game will sell millions if they just throw Enclave, BoS, and Mutants into the game and make the story about a war between the three. Throw in a search for a loved one and it will be a sure thing. Bah! Been said before. Don't even know why I wasted the time. Read these:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49627

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46914

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57497

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46651


* If you didn't catch the raisin reference, shoot yourself.

 

[pipboy-x11]

awful Fallout fans. The worst kind of fan really. The kind that overlooks or is oblivious to the games faults, even though they are so in your face it is ridiculous.

Those are just typical console gamers. Who are used to Barbi-type characters, easily welding swords bigger than herself with one hand, swiping out hordes of enemies right and left, making flashes and small earthquakes in the process.

 

[Chaito]

I think the response is too easy.

One of the reasons I see, is because classc fallouts are really "hardcore" rpg games (Like many others). They are difficult to understand at first, difficult to play, difficult to resolve the quests, difficult to "levelup" characters.

Second reason. Classic fallouts use a isometric engine and turn based combat system.

Third reason. Each character in classic fallouts has a defined personallity (through texts and nothing else, nothing like faces and expression as today's games) and has different ways to be arrived and it is a goal to do so.

Fourth reason. Classic fallout turns themselves everytime from seriousness to unreal stuff and ridiculessness and back to seriousness.

Fifth reason. Classic fallouts are filled with Dark humor everywhere.


The Elder Scrolls: Fallout3 lacks in every of the five above, that are (for me at least) the 5 most important things of the game (And not the "post nuclear atmosphere" as some fans say):

Fallout3 Philosophy:
1. Hardcore games doesn't sell anymore. Let's do it easy skilling and more shooting!
2. Have you seen an isometric turnbased tier1 game in the last years? they don't sell!
3. Why having mystic characters that users have to try 20 times tryng to gain her trust? dialogues are for idiots! the people wants entering a room and shooting everyone!!! that sells more!
4. Unreal stuff? nah that dirties the "post apocalyptic atmosphere" we want to create, and still, lots of people who play our games will not understand.
5. Dark humor? why? it restricts personalities of players to follow it. And removing it will not bother the others! We will catch all!

So as you can see, we hate it because they grabbed a masterpiece and they modified it to sell million copies rather to be loyal with the saga. All explanations are reduced to that.

Hope it is understood No meening to harm anyone, greetings from Argentina! (Sorry about my english!)

 

[Crni Vuk]

awful Fallout fans. The worst kind of fan really. The kind that overlooks or is oblivious to the games faults, even though they are so in your face it is ridiculous.

Those are just typical console gamers. Who are used to Barbi-type characters, easily welding swords bigger than herself with one hand, swiping out hordes of enemies right and left, making flashes and small earthquakes in the process.

I hear that a lot and I don't think its accurate. people believe the console killed the PC star.

But I actually enjoyed for many years playing console games and I have some great memories with them.

You know what I think is the real truth? The so called dumbing down happened on all platforms. Not just the PC. And the reason sure is not the console here. Its just a symptom.

No, its caused by people which see their playerbase and consumer as to "stupid" to get their games. To stupid to know what a med kit is for in a shooter, to stupid to even get the smallest part of text on their screen.

But why is that I ask my self? Why? Most of the gamers are in their mid to late 20s. Many of those gamers have grown up with many great titles. Not to mention quite complicated games like Metal Gear Solid or games which use for years the one and same formula (many pokemon games, mario etc.) STILL sell like crazy. So why do this publishers/developers believe their playerbase to be THAT dumb?

So as you can see, we hate it because they grabbed a masterpiece and they modified it to sell million copies rather to be loyal with the saga. All explanations are reduced to that.

Hope it is understood No meening to harm anyone, greetings from Argentina! (Sorry about my english!)

They are in it for the money. Thats hardly a secret though. And I am not sure if I believe those "we are all die hard Fallout fans" by Todd and his people.

Anyway. Thing is that I dont even blame them for the target to make money. Thats fine for me. Everyone likes that sweet green. I just believe that many developers out there have proven that "quality" and "money" can go hand in hand when it is about games. Look at the Witcher, its a game with "good", not outsanding, but solid writing and solid story concept. A game has not to be always like planescape torment to be great.

What I cant really take in Fallout 3 is this third grade humor pretty much around every damn corner in the game. its "ok" sometimes, Fallout 2 sure had a lot of those as well. But it never feelt like forced on you. Not to mention the writting in F2 was a lot better which evens it somewhat out. Take this 3Dog radioman ... so you fight the good fight with your voice dialogues ... and its the whole game like that.

If Fallout 3 had at least a great interesting story, good writting and maybe a bit more entertaining combat it could have been a nice Fallout game. And I think many would have complained about it not beeing turnbased but they would have seen it as Fallout game.

 

[TorontoReign]

Personally, I think New Vegas improved upon Fallout 3 immensely. I don't need Fallout to be turn-based anymore. We have Wasteland 2 for that. New Vegas actually felt like a RPG. Fallout 3 felt like a shooter.

 

[Wintermind]

I actually had a sort of crazy fever dream of a good Fallout 3.

For starters, things made more... sense. It might have been set earlier after the war than 2077. Don't remember the exact date of it, but the devastation and general state of repair was much more believable. Partly because it was different. Most rubble had been cleared to be used as fortifications or walls or other building materials. DC was mostly covered in ruins, and the subway tunnels were more actively used by civilized people, so they were cleared of debris and fortified in places, with some stations being lived in, Metro 2033 style.There were hydroponic farms that people lived on, in more than one area. So while you were apt to spend a lot of time in the metro, they were at least, different, interesting, and fun to fight in. Also somewhat necessary to move around the city, which was full of useful supplies left over from before the war.

There was also no godawful map/guidance thing. You had maps on your pip boy, but they were old, and outdated street maps of the area. You had to find maps of various things (like the subway network) from working computers or holotapes, and then had to correct the records to match reality, and fortifications and etc made by the people of wastes.

 

[TorontoReign]

I actually had a sort of crazy fever dream of a good Fallout 3.

For starters, things made more... sense. It might have been set earlier after the war than 2077. Don't remember the exact date of it, but the devastation and general state of repair was much more believable. Partly because it was different. Most rubble had been cleared to be used as fortifications or walls or other building materials. DC was mostly covered in ruins, and the subway tunnels were more actively used by civilized people, so they were cleared of debris and fortified in places, with some stations being lived in, Metro 2033 style.There were hydroponic farms that people lived on, in more than one area. So while you were apt to spend a lot of time in the metro, they were at least, different, interesting, and fun to fight in. Also somewhat necessary to move around the city, which was full of useful supplies left over from before the war.

There was also no godawful map/guidance thing. You had maps on your pip boy, but they were old, and outdated street maps of the area. You had to find maps of various things (like the subway network) from working computers or holotapes, and then had to correct the records to match reality, and fortifications and etc made by the people of wastes.

Good ideas there mate. I'd buy that for a dollar!

 

[Wintermind]

Well for a dollar you're not wasting much. I think I was playing fallout three or atleast talking about improving fallout 3, and the ideas merged in my head with actual fallout 3 from my memory or something. That's probably why I remember more stalking around the metro and the dead city than anything else. I don't think my fever dream could create really good story and characters just like that though.

 

[Finwei]

Disproportionate and Illogical Design

I personally liked the game, but do not regard it as a Fallout game. It was an alright post-apocalyptic game, but a terrible Fallout game, and I suppose this mindset helped me keep somewhat of an open-mind.

Anyhow, onto my list. I dislike FO3 because...

1.) The fucking setting. I know this has been said many times before, but it sorta mixed FO1 and FO2 and added some bullshit to justify it. Such as, the Super Mutants and Enclave which were supposed to be on the West Coast, and Beth. just said "OH THEY BE FROM VAULT 87 AND ENCLAVE MOVED LIKE 900 MILES FROM COAST TO COAST".

This and the Brotherhood of Steel. They made the BoS look like fucking knights in shining armour. That shit isn't right, they weren't like this in the first two games and they didn't "fight the good fight". They were goddamned weapons-hoarders and when Lyons let in a bunch of civilians into the BoS to protect the wastelanders, he exhausted the weapon supply which caused worse training, etc. etc.

It's fucking retarded.

And they put it in fucking Washington D.C., whilst all the other games were on the West Coast. Plus 200 years after the bombs fell, the state of D.C., etc. etc. I could go on for days.

2.) The storyline. It was pretty fucking terrible, much of it being due to the setting.

3.) Locations sucked. Megaton would've flooded and there were way too many bullshit pipes all over the place, and no rational place to get water. Little Lamplight was absolutely stupid. So was Bigtown. Republic of Dave wasn't any better. Rivet City was alright, but it was terrible. The griminess of the world was crappy as well.

4.) Characters. Three Dog was annoying, Lyons was terrible, etc. etc. overall, everyone had a knee-deep personality. They were cliches, they didn't seem personalized or real. They didn't have deep or conflicting personalities.

Everyone was either black or white (morally speaking), there were no grey people nor people who were complex.

5.) Gameplay. Made an RPG into an FPS and screwed up a lot of the dark humour. etc. etc.

I didn't feel like writing a longer explanation, so I hope this'll do. And yes, I still play the game every now and then, but would much rather play FO1/2 or New Vegas.
[/list]

 

[Crni Vuk]

you know what I liked the most though?

BOSS "I will mass genocide everyone"

PLAYER "you cant do that"

BOSS "whhyyyyyyyyeeee ..."

PLAYER "because I say so"

BOSS "I kill my self now"

and yeah ... thats pretty much how the game went in the enclave base.

 

[pipboy-x11]

I hear that a lot and I don't think its accurate. people believe the console killed the PC star.

But I actually enjoyed for many years playing console games and I have some great memories with them.

No, I didn't say that console games are "worse". They are different - at least they were before everyone began wanting to make every game for all possible platforms. And it's ok - consoles always had better fighting/action games, PC were much better at strategy/quest/RPG side. How many strategy games have you seen on PS2? Can you even imagine something like FO2 on PS2? I doubt the latter was even possible, considering controls of the consoles.

Consoles were always more suited for casual gamers, mostly in their teens. PC games were targeted at hardcore enthusiasts, who didn't mind purchasing expensive hardware just to play another favorite title. Do you remember Voodoo accelerators and the days when many games required joysticks? Heck, I didn't mind purchasing new PC when every new title from id Software has been released. Another side of PC gaming required reading - a lot. I can't imagine someone reading a lot of text, Fallout-style, on TV screen.

I didn't mind that someone was having fun playing console titles. The problem began when publishers decided that PC players need to start consuming console-like games as well.

You know what I think is the real truth? The so called dumbing down happened on all platforms. Not just the PC. And the reason sure is not the console here. Its just a symptom.

Yes, and IMO the cause is the "lowest common denominator". If you try to build both racing cars and family minivans using the same common platform, both models are going to suck. The thing is - you can't make something absolutely universal without sacrificing a lot in the process. Both at the technical side and at the game design side. If someone decides to build a game for PC/consoles/iOS/Android - well, the best you can hope for is something like Angry Birds.

So why do this publishers/developers believe their playerbase to be THAT dumb?

They are making games that are going to be sold to the maximum number of gamers and their grandmoms. If you make a game that is a bit more complex, more challenging, you're going to frustrate a part of consumers - and that's not something they want. I think this began when big money came to gaming industry, allowing some publishers to wipe out the rest just by financial/marketing means, and the competition for better product was basically over. That allowed several big houses to monopolize the market and start selling mediocre games just to everyone, because consumers couldn't have anything else. It's like Coca Cola vs Pepsi - it's not like they are vastly different or one is better than other, this is a purely marketing battle.

I think situation is improving. We finally have expanding indy games market, we have Steam, we have Kickstarter. There are great (I hope) games on the horizon, there will be more. We are finally through the dark age of big, dinosaurs-like, publishers. FO3, I guess, was just a typical abomination they produced, probably one of the worst examples. Rest in pieces, FO3.

I personally liked the game, but do not regard it as a Fallout game. It was an alright post-apocalyptic game, but a terrible Fallout game

....
the list of FO3 atrocities skipped

I just don't understand what exactly did you like then Shooting dudes? That sucked too, imo. I hated the fact that supermutant's face has to fill my sniper rifle scope before I have a chance of hitting the target - the range of weapons was that limited. What's the fucking point of having a sniper rifle than? I think if someone wants just to shoot dudes, there are far better games for that. Such as Rage, being a good example of a post-apocalyptic shooter (strictly IMHO, of cause). Or HL2. Or whatever else gives you kicks. FO3 sucked as a shooter too (as in any other regard). NV improved even upon that, so I finally could snipe enemies from afar, no VAST shit attached.

 

[Wintermind]

I think it was on this site there was a review for FO3 where they treated it as another game. Called it Capital Wasteland: Requiem or something like that. If you pretend it's not a fallout game, it makes the game much more palatable.