yet another hypothetical fallout sequel: Nashville

N

NemZ

First time out of the vault
1) Game interface/engine:
Theoretically I do think it’s possible to make everyone happy with a single engine. If fully zoomed in you are in real-time FPS mode, just like F3 and NV (though with no VATS). Zoom out to a 3rd-person overhead view that still plays F3/NV style, but now it’s generally more friendly for unarmed/melee play. Zoom out all the way, however, and the action should automatically pause and the interface switch over to being a cursor-driven affair. All the calculations and graphics are the same but now the world only moves while your character is carrying out commands (including ‘wait’), though perhaps intentionally not quite as fast as someone skilled in FPS/Action games could manage in real time. End result is that the brokenly overpowered VATS is dead and more strategic players have a comfortable option to replace it.

2) Story overview:
It all begins on a pre-war morning in a typical suburban home near Nashville, TN. You’re sick in bed, being mooned over by your spouse as he/she prepares to take the kids to school. Suddenly, sirens! Begin a frantic time-limited section of grabbing necessary items and valuables from the house and then make your way as best you can, dealing with panicked and rioting people along the way, to reach the vault the family has bought a stake in…only for the character to be denied entrance because of your illness. Say your goodbyes then rush to find a suitable shelter in one of several possible locations, none of them truly sealed.
That’s right, the main character is a ghoul.
After the intro play should consist of several chapters, each separated by years or even decades, allowing the player to watch the effects of their actions shape the world around them over the course of several generations. The primary storyline should revolve around attempts to make the world habitable for your descendants, coming to terms with being forgotten by them and probably not well accepted due to your not being human anymore, and ultimately realizing that the vault they were in was of the psychologically damaging variety, meaning that in the end the family you’ve worked so hard to protect may not actually be fit to rule the kingdom you’ve built them. The final ‘big bad’ depending on your path through the game might your own great grandchild.

Expect more thoughts/detail to come.
 
NemZ said:
1) Game interface/engine:
Theoretically I do think it’s possible to make everyone happy with a single engine. If fully zoomed in you are in real-time FPS mode, just like F3 and NV (though with no VATS). Zoom out to a 3rd-person overhead view that still plays F3/NV style, but now it’s generally more friendly for unarmed/melee play. Zoom out all the way, however, and the action should automatically pause and the interface switch over to being a cursor-driven affair. All the calculations and graphics are the same but now the world only moves while your character is carrying out commands (including ‘wait’), though perhaps intentionally not quite as fast as someone skilled in FPS/Action games could manage in real time. End result is that the brokenly overpowered VATS is dead and more strategic players have a comfortable option to replace it.

2) Story overview:
It all begins on a pre-war morning in a typical suburban home near Nashville, TN. You’re sick in bed, being mooned over by your spouse as he/she prepares to take the kids to school. Suddenly, sirens! Begin a frantic time-limited section of grabbing necessary items and valuables from the house and then make your way as best you can, dealing with panicked and rioting people along the way, to reach the vault the family has bought a stake in…only for the character to be denied entrance because of your illness. Say your goodbyes then rush to find a suitable shelter in one of several possible locations, none of them truly sealed.
That’s right, the main character is a ghoul.
After the intro play should consist of several chapters, each separated by years or even decades, allowing the player to watch the effects of their actions shape the world around them over the course of several generations. The primary storyline should revolve around attempts to make the world habitable for your descendants, coming to terms with being forgotten by them and probably not well accepted due to your not being human anymore, and ultimately realizing that the vault they were in was of the psychologically damaging variety, meaning that in the end the family you’ve worked so hard to protect may not actually be fit to rule the kingdom you’ve built them. The final ‘big bad’ depending on your path through the game might your own great grandchild.

Expect more thoughts/detail to come.
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why would a vault deny a sick person? They have the facilities and personnel to deal with it. I think thats a poor excuse to force the player to be a ghoul.
 
A vault is a closed system with high population density, so anything that limits disease exposure is a very good idea. In those conditions a bad flu could potentially kill everyone, so just getting the family in should require speech checks or something and I assume everyone goes through a decontamination process as standard procedure.

And I do mean the character is really sick, not just a harmless sniffle. Having the crippled effects going off during the entire intro stage would probably be appropriate.
 
NemZ said:
A vault is a closed system with high population density, so anything that limits disease exposure is a very good idea. In those conditions a bad flu could potentially kill everyone, so just getting the family in should require speech checks or something and I assume everyone goes through a decontamination process as standard procedure.

And I do mean the character is really sick, not just a harmless sniffle. Having the crippled effects going off during the entire intro stage would probably be appropriate.
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Yeah but no. A Vault wouldn't turn away a person just because they're sick, Vaults are well equipped for people getting sick.
 
Drop the illness part, you just break off from your family during the rioting, someone gets killed, more drama, blabla, and you don't make it to the Vault in time.
Then you can make a ghouls story.

Just a thought...
 
Seriously?

You're a guard at a gate on the most stressful day of you life, probably just some kid barely 20, sorting through a tidal wave of desperate people just trying to survive. A person who is obviously visibly ill as hell shows up with family, saying they're supposed to be let in. You're really going to take a chance letting the bloody plaguebearer into the shelter with you, having no clue what the hell is wrong (could be the commies are using biobombs too!), and then tell the rest of these healthy people they have to stay out here?

I'd probably shoot the poor bastard as an act of mercy and let somebody's kid inside instead.

Besides, the illness provides a nice denial angle for the first real chapter when the character is still in the process of turning and doesn't know what the hell is wrong.
 
NemZ said:
Seriously?

You're a guard at a gate on the most stressful day of you life, probably just some kid barely 20, sorting through a tidal wave of desperate people just trying to survive. A person who is obviously visibly ill as hell shows up with family, saying they're supposed to be let in. You're really going to take a chance letting the bloody plaguebearer into the shelter with you, having no clue what the hell is wrong (could be the commies are using biobombs too!), and then tell the rest of these healthy people they have to stay out here?

I'd probably shoot the poor bastard as an act of mercy and let somebody's kid inside instead.

Besides, the illness provides a nice denial angle for the first real chapter when the character is still in the process of turning and doesn't know what the hell is wrong.
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Oh so it just happens to be some really contagious super-disease that means you can't be healed by the cutting edge tech in the vault? And the vaults probably weren't guarded by somebody when the bombs fell, not many people knew about them, and they were hidden. If somebody was extremely ill, it would seem more likely they would take him to the medical area, seperate him from the rest of vault and treat him rather than keep him out.
 
NemZ said:
I'd probably shoot the poor bastard as an act of mercy and let somebody's kid inside instead.
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I don't think that would be good for......the mental well being of the child....at all.

Moving on.
I think forcing players to play as a Ghoul may not be a good selling point.
 
Sure the vaults can fight illness but guess what the best way to do so is? Don't let it get in the vault in the first damn place. But whatever, forget the illness thing if it bothers people so much.

The whole ghoul angle needs to stay though because without it the entire plot idea doesn't work in any way shape or form.

Moving on...

3) Factions, reputation and karma:
Whatever they are, it has to be NEW. No NCR/Legion/BoS guys hanging around until maybe the very last time periods. the typical composition of socities in the area should change over time as well, starting with a mix of gun nut survivalist types who had their own family shelters and other poor bastards like yourself... probably lots of tension of a racial vibe involved. Later on you'll see roving tribal bands, earlier releasing vault survivors, explorers and scavengers from the countryside. At each step which groups still exist in the next wave and how they change over time depends on the player's choices.

Another thing that really needs to happen is for the factions to stop standing around waiting for you to solve (or make) all their problems for them. They should react to things you and other factions do, forming alliances or starting turf wars amongst themselves based upon the political landscape you're helping to create. Even better if these issues are procedurally generated and resolved with a degree of chance having a say in the outcome so players can't take anything for granted.

The faction reputation system was a good start, but what about individual attitude scores among npcs? Helping a group might generally raise your rep but piss off someone within that group for stealing all the praise. alliances and rivalries between groups should also affect those scores as well, depending on how you're received by everyone involved. I also think it's high time to just give up on the overall karma rating, stop recording any change for acts that aren't witnessed, and get over the idea that stealing from the home of somebody you already killed matters.

4) Transportation:
First off, no more 'fast travel' as a default option available at just about any time or place. That crap absolutely kills any sense of scale and most of the risk of the wastes and it never should have been invented in the first place. Vehicles, however, should be available, though over time fuel is going to become harder to come by. Eventually new domesticated mounts should be introduced to fill the gap, all of them specifically very useful for traveling between map areas if not so much through the wreckage and rubble.

I do still want the game to feature a single huge world, but to replace fast travel it should be possible to use well-defined 'routes' between established hub points you've already visited as a way to cut down on the monotony of backtracking. Regardless of how you travel there should be the same chances along the way to run into trouble or unexpected opportunities, though perhaps the method of travel should affect the list of potential encounters. For example a pack of raiders or wild animals should be less likely to mess with someone making good time in a vehicle, and at the same time better equipped militia that might have ignored a random nobody on foot should see a working vehicle as a prize worth investigating. In this way encounters can be somewhat scaled to the player's level without actually having any of them change.
 
NemZ said:
3) Factions, reputation and karma:
Whatever they are, it has to be NEW. No NCR/Legion/BoS guys hanging around until maybe the very last time periods. the typical composition of socities in the area should change over time as well, starting with a mix of gun nut survivalist types who had their own family shelters and other poor bastards like yourself... probably lots of tension of a racial vibe involved. Later on you'll see roving tribal bands, earlier releasing vault survivors, explorers and scavengers from the countryside. At each step which groups still exist in the next wave and how they change over time depends on the player's choices.

Another thing that really needs to happen is for the factions to stop standing around waiting for you to solve (or make) all their problems for them. They should react to things you and other factions do, forming alliances or starting turf wars amongst themselves based upon the political landscape you're helping to create. Even better if these issues are procedurally generated and resolved with a degree of chance having a say in the outcome so players can't take anything for granted.
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That is something I was thinking about myself earlier, that was one of my issues with New Vegas too.

If the game boasted a system like that I would definitely get it.

Anyway, an idea for you, how about instead of being refused entry into a vault, you never got placement within one in the first place?
 
5) Items, inventory, and hauling all that loot:

The way that equipment works in this game really needs an overhaul. Weapon mods and schematics are a start, but much better would be the ability to directly swap out parts from weapons within the same class. Armor should also be something that can built from composite bits and customized, giving location-specific DT to make targeting specific body parts more interesting. This also should include crafting new bits from old ones, such as rechambering a weapon for different ammo, and repair should require swaping out specific parts at a workbench, not something you can do on the fly unless the item is of a modular design. Maintenance should be an entirely different system than condition, and involve cleaning agents and the like, not new parts.

I'd like to see an actual inventory system, with location slots rather than just a list, more along the lines of Diablo 2's grid and body slots, so that both weight and size have to be considered when hauling around piles of scavanged loot. Drawing a gun on your holster should be an entirely different action from digging out the one you stashed at the bottom of you backpack. Different clothing options should enable more or less equipment slots, such as adding a bandoleer or tactical vest, cargo pants, finding a snap-strap holster to put a knife on your thigh, etc.

Having equipment slots also opens up the possibilities of dual wielding weapons, using shields, or of limiting your armament choices while crippled or needing to use a tool. With a high enough strength you should be able to even dual wield assault riffles and the like, though reloading would require more time, or maybe a perk that lets you use leveraction riffles one-handed, Terminator 2 style.

By the same token, modifying a weapon should enable secondary attack options like bayonettes and underslug grenade launchers. If you don't mind things getting unweildy, shure, go ahead and duct tape a flamer alongside your marksman carbide. Jury rig two sawed-off shotguns into a four-barrelled monstrosity. for that matter even normal weapons should have more options then they currently do, like pistol whipping someone or parrying a sword trust with your riffle stock.

Containers location should also matter, making things at the top of the grid faster to access (and easier to steal...) than stuff you bury down at the bottom. There's also a glaring need for more variety of containers, such as different capacity backpacks, or maybe a sack you can pile things in to carry but drop at the first sign of trouble so you lose encumbrance. Hell, why not a wheelbarrow and pack animals? Options like these make the loss of fast travel both more palatable and more interesting because, like vehicles/mounts, being visibly loaded down with stuff should factor into the sorts of encounters you're likely to have.

Hauling all this stuff around should have an effect on you though, and I suggest expanding the role of fatigue from nonlethal damage to cover things like sustained effort, illness/poison, hunger/thirst, lack of sleep, or short bursts of intense action like sprinting. Refilling this bar should be as easy as taking a nap or just dropping your load and waiting for a while.
 
The thing of it is, while i like most of these ideas, you have to remember that it'll be lauched on PC and Xbox360. So while making these thing more complicated is nice, the companies won't do it if they can't sell it to the vast market that is console games. Yes it takes away from the experience but it allows them to make money, and without money they won't make the game. Such is the world we live in.
 
Also while i like the idea that doing repairs requires swapping parts, I don't think making cleaning your weapons a part of the game is a good idea. For a simple reason, pacing. The last thing i want to have to do before i go and clear out a den of raiders is clean my shiny new marksmen carbine with undermounted sawed off shotgun. Otherwise this sounds like a good idea, options and game play wise.

I can't fallow you on the whole being a ghoul thing. It just doesn't work, you can't have a strong ghoul because of the way cannons been set up. Which makes having an hack n slash character rather odd. Also they're not effect by radiation, or poison. Plus the whole generally hated everywhere issue. If your going to make the argument that there is going to be a large fraction of them, its not worth it because they're going to go fereal, which was establish as early as Fallout 2.

Its a very interesting idea, but it would take so truely epic writing to make it viable.
 
Well yeah, it's obviously just a wish list. I thought that was understood just by being in this subforum. :P

@repair: Basically that already is in NV in a limited form, I just want reasonably regular maintenance to cover normal wear and tear without needing to actually find new parts all the time. It's essentially the same idea as using fatigue for nonlethal damage, only applied to weapon condition rather than health. Make a habit of basic maintenance and your guns should NEVER wear out short of them being actually damaged by targeted attacks or explosions. On the other hand actual condition loss on a weapon should have very noticeable downsides, like frequent jams and misfires, possibly even blowing up in your face if it gets really low.

@ghoul: yes, it's a tall order requiring good writing, as well as forcing players to deal with situations differently as their condition worsens. If it could be pulled off, however, the story has some very memorable potential as both a prequel and a sequel all in one. It might be quite interesting to work with a group of pre-ghouls in one chapter and find them as feral wrecks in the next. Since this is in a new area with no connection to the previous ones whose to say you might not be able to keep a good reputation with some groups of the smoothskins by helping them early and often?
 
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