Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Word of warning though, the last part of the game, Deep Caverns, is godawful.
a721402
Perhaps tomorrow will be better.
There is no one mention Jewish or anything related to them in this thread until you do though.
Rheios
Mr. House's Employee of the Apocalypse
@TheHouseAlwaysWins : What are you talking about now? Who mentioned jewish folk? Oh. Ugh. @Kommie, apparently there's something with layered parenthesis - the (( )) , not sure if I got enough in there - that crazy folk are using to imply some crazy "zionist" conspiracy/illuminati power ripple thing. It took me a minute to get what TheHouseAlwaysWins meant. Hopefully this was just a misunderstanding.
So far as the 'like different things', I know I'm fine with people liking like they like. If someone likes warm, that's fine, but if you come to an ice castle and slowly melt it because you keep cranking the temperature up and starting fires then, even if you now outnumber the original ice castle occupants, its still fair they be annoyed. Especially when you've started to melt the foundation so that you can have an indoor pool. I know, I came in because it was warm and figured out how much damage it was doing and want the cold beauty back. Admittedly my metaphor's melting worse than the castle, but the concept is that the game may be fun but its rife with obvious bugs, has an incredibly simplistic "plot", a linearly declining gameplay loop, and has actively started fucking with Black Isle lore - something their own front man says they have no problems doing and that they touted as a good thing for TES and it wasn't. I don't think many people are hating this just because its a spinoff for different tastes (which I have concerns about with splitting the base but that's been a problem forever) so much as it represents elemental continuations of the same problems they've had since 3 that became gangrenous in 4.
So far as the 'like different things', I know I'm fine with people liking like they like. If someone likes warm, that's fine, but if you come to an ice castle and slowly melt it because you keep cranking the temperature up and starting fires then, even if you now outnumber the original ice castle occupants, its still fair they be annoyed. Especially when you've started to melt the foundation so that you can have an indoor pool. I know, I came in because it was warm and figured out how much damage it was doing and want the cold beauty back. Admittedly my metaphor's melting worse than the castle, but the concept is that the game may be fun but its rife with obvious bugs, has an incredibly simplistic "plot", a linearly declining gameplay loop, and has actively started fucking with Black Isle lore - something their own front man says they have no problems doing and that they touted as a good thing for TES and it wasn't. I don't think many people are hating this just because its a spinoff for different tastes (which I have concerns about with splitting the base but that's been a problem forever) so much as it represents elemental continuations of the same problems they've had since 3 that became gangrenous in 4.
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In UnderRail?
Also, I did not notice anything related to religion/politics, is it really just those parenthesis? Because in context that still doesn't sound like anything related.
Hulk'O'Saurus
Still Mildly Glowing
I am not playing a devil's advocate here, and I am not looking to be provocative, when I ask the question: How?
Unless by godawful you mean difficult?
It's one of the most challenging dungeon crawls I've played in my life. The first time I finished the game it was on DOMINATING and I will remember it for a long time
. It does much in a different way and it absolutely does not hold your hand. People talk about choice and consequence in modern games, and here you've got both in spades. Because the stakes are so high.
I'd head over to the forum if I were you. The people over there are mature and helpful and can give a hand with builds without spoiling the game.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Yes.
It's padded out the arse with bullshit fetch quests and annoying constant combat and ends in a boss fight that is just obscenely unfair and considering the game has never EVER thrown a boss fight like this at you it takes you completely by surprise and not in a good way.
Seriously, the rest of the game is amazing and I love it.
But when I get down there I use cheats to max out everything on my character and speed up the walking and follow a guide so I can just get it all done with as quickly as possible.
Oh and use a guide.
Deep Caverns is shit game design IMO.
Here's my rant on it on Discord:
Spoilers obviously
Well, I finished up Underrail and the Deep Cavern still sucks ass. Oh my. Look at Arnie in full defense mode. I don't care. Listen to my whine about Underrail instead.
So, Deep Cavern... Backtracking, excessive sidequests and lack of direction and telling the player what the fuck to do.
I love Underrail up to a point and that point is Deep Cavern. My advice to any potential player is that you should roleplay and shit up to that point but the moment you enter deep cavern then you cheat your ass off. Skills, stats, feats, derivative stats, items, I don't give a shit, cheat with everything you can. Wanna know why? Cause I spent 10 hours of today crawling through that tedious shit. I spent the entire day just working my way through the damn game. There's barely any NPC's so don't expect much dialogue apart from lore exposition. THere's no real quests apart from the big long one which does a SHIT job at telling you what you actually need to do. You HAVE to backtrack A LOT. And deal with a shit ton of unnecessary side-stuff just to open the damn gate. Oh and for the love of all that is holy, do NOT EVER piss off the Faceless. I did last time and they will make your experience far worse.
Constantly stealth attacking you or coming into your path with random patrols. As to the side-tracking shit, you have to go into an apartment complex to get a keycard so you can go to a cryo chamber so you can deactivate the pods so you can kill the people inside of it so you can get some sort of item which I forgot which it was. You need to power it up first by going to a power management facility and redistributing power (you can't power up everything) and it is faaaaar away from other stuff so backtracking is inevitable. You need to go into a series of caves, attract a bunch of spores on you til you get to lvl 30 in infection and then you'll have to fight a sort of miniboss for an item that the game does shit job at telling you about how important it is. You need to go into a labyrinth of caves just to find a fucking gear or something to repair the gate. Deep Cavern is excessively big and empty as fuck. And all the developer could think of was to take a simple quest and cut it up into as many pieces as possible and then throw them as far away from one another as possible. And that's not even getting into the final boss fight... That's why I think you should cheat. Just cheat. Pump your character up to godhood and then just attack the main bosses stupid fucking eye. You'll have a far better time in Deep Cavern if you just cheat and follow a guide so you can get it over with as quickly as possible. How can a game so good have total retardation end game design? Personally I would have cut out the labyrinth and the fungal forest completely. I'd spread their unique enemies around to other locations of the DC instead.
I'd get rid of the god damn motherfucking power plant bullshit where you can't power up everything at once and have to go back and repower shit. And I'd add in a different way of getting into the main bosses area instead of the gate. So if you want to have an easier time with the boss then you have to deal with the gate first and then you can use some kind of biowhatever to lower its attack and defense stats in the uh... Observation deck above it. But if you just want to go "fuck it, I'mma just gun it" then you should be able to just circumvent the entire thing by just going guns in blazing through a breach that is crawling with spawns. It means the boss will be more dangerous, but that's the risk you took. So yeah, I'd cut away the fat. Sooooo much fat. Too much fat. Deep Caverns is morbidly obese. And it needs a hot date with a cleaver. Just cut away at it. I don't care if all that remains afterwards is just bones. Better that than being drowned in blubber. Fuck Deep Caverns. I still love Underrail and will suggest it to anyone. But I also suggest you cheat in any kind of way you can when you get down there. By using cheat engine or something. Just cheat your way through it. Or if you want to spend 10+ hours just running around doing chores then be my guest.
I don't understand why he doesn't fix it. I mean, most of the game was made by one person right? Is it just because he's stubborn about "his art"? Cause that part soils the game. It's not like he needs to redesign the entirety of it.
- Like I said before, just change it so that you can power up everything without having to alternate the power (which means you can cut away one bit of backtracking at the very least).
- The mushroom forest is redundant. Preiod. It's just another damn series of fetch quest map transitions. Get rid of it. The game isn't enhanced in any way by this area. Just take the parts that are there (the art assets and enemies and stuff) and just cram it into some other more vital part of the maps. Perhaps a city area or something. But get rid of the boss fight and the damn chlamydia fruit you need to collect. The area itself just feels like he had an idea for something but couldn't fit it in anywhere else in the game so he just shoehorn it in and fractures the fetchquestathon even more by forcing you to collect yet another piece. The area doesn't add anything of substance and is better off being severed like a cancerous tumor.
- Labyrinth is even worse though. This area is just godawful. Cut it. Cut the damn fetch quest plot device too.
- OOoooooor... Move it. Move the design closer to the gate with the main boss behind it and make it an alternate combat heavy entrance which is super dangerous to go through but allows you to skip the gate completely if you want to. Just change what the exit and enter zones go, add in a little hole in the wall or something near the gate and then voila! Done.
- Add in some sort of NPC or whatever that could act as a navigator for whatever parts are still remaining for the fetchquestathon so you don't feel forced to look up an online guide. Could be an old information booth that the tchortists hacked so that they could navigate the area better and now you can use for hints. What else... I mean this would cut away 2 entire areas and skip the backtracking to the power plant, but is it enough? I'd argue there are more parts that are redundant but I dunno... It might be enough to make it less tedious. Point is, it wouldn't be super-difficult. It's not like he has to redesign the entirety of Deep Cavern. Just cut away the fluff. Add it in somewhere else.
When you're not fighting the Faceless and you avoid getting main boss spawn on you (which is really easy after talking to Leoo) it is just empty. A whole lot of nothing. Just backtracking back and forth. On that note I'd argue get rid of a lot of the breakable walls and shit and just unlock the damn doors. We're going to find a jackhammer and have more than enough batteries to charge it with so it's not like it adds anything but more backtracking and annoyingly being forced to wait for the drill to bring down the walls. sigh Or just give us a god damn fast-travel button already... There's cars down there. Allow us to simply use a car (that we have to fix up) and drive to important sections of the facility (dialogue screen pops up, you select where you wanna go, loading screen; you're there.) I can't understand how he can possibly delude himself into thinking that that shit is actually well designed.
I know for damn certain what I fucking want and that is less god damn backtracking and fluff areas that were clearly just shoehorned in because he had created the art assets and didn't want them to go to waste . Seriously, it is such a damn good game. But that part? My god I hated nearly every part of it. And this is the end we're talking about. This is the part that will be fresh in people's memories. When they leave the game the most distinct feeling they'll have is what they felt towards the end. And what I felt was nothing good. Hell, it's hard to even imagine suggesting the game to others because of this.
What are the main problems with DC? Well, nearly all of them ties into the way the rest of the game was designed. Most parts of underpassages and caves you didn't HAVE to explore. That was kinda the point. It's optional. YOU decide to explore it fully and get a bit fatigued from the exploration aspect. But the problem with DC is that the exploration aspect is not optional, it is forced due to how the quest is set up down there. So if you're starting to feel a bit... Disencouraged from exploration cause you already have damn good gear and a pretty high level and stuff then it isn't quite as rewarding as it used to be early on. At least that's how I felt. Like, I've explored. I've enjoyed that part of the game but I've gotten my fill and I'd rather not do it anymore. "well, tough shit, here's an entire network of maps that you are FORCED to explore" The rest of the game doesn't force this on you. DC does. The rest of the game has quite varied quests and solutions to them. It has lots of interesting characters and locations and an interesting world to explore in terms of lore and history and political intrigue. Nearly all of that is gone in DC. There's barely any characters to talk to and it doesn't have any quests beyond fetch questing and most of the solutions revolve around simply not dying. It doesn't have much political intrigue either. Most of the meat is in form of backstory but it is far between and relies mostly on old notes on computers and stuff. The rest of the game is varied in both what you'll interact with and HOW you interact with it. DC doesn't provide either.
There's always a bit of backtracking involved in Underrail but there isn't a moment where it feels so forced and with nothing to do. If you're going from Protectorate to meet up with some agents then yes, there is technically a bit of backtracking but it's over with rather quickly and you get to use two trains to cut some distance. DC on the other hand doesn't offer any kind of fast-travel anywhere at all and you're forced to walk all over the places looking for plot devices. The rest of the game does not feel bloated when it comes to backtracking and forcing the player to constantly go through map transitions just for one quest. DC? DC loves it and wants to torture you with it. And then we get to the main boss...
I'll just say this, I do not really remember a single point in the game that is even remotely close to what the last boss fight is like. So it feels alien and not in a good way. It just feels out of place. Like it doesn't belong. There's been no trials like this before where you've had to train yourself and remember your past actions so you can fully utilize your knowledge and skills and accomplishments to take down the last big baddie. Nope. It just suddenly and violently appears and curbstomps your ass.
So, Deep Cavern... Backtracking, excessive sidequests and lack of direction and telling the player what the fuck to do.
I love Underrail up to a point and that point is Deep Cavern. My advice to any potential player is that you should roleplay and shit up to that point but the moment you enter deep cavern then you cheat your ass off. Skills, stats, feats, derivative stats, items, I don't give a shit, cheat with everything you can. Wanna know why? Cause I spent 10 hours of today crawling through that tedious shit. I spent the entire day just working my way through the damn game. There's barely any NPC's so don't expect much dialogue apart from lore exposition. THere's no real quests apart from the big long one which does a SHIT job at telling you what you actually need to do. You HAVE to backtrack A LOT. And deal with a shit ton of unnecessary side-stuff just to open the damn gate. Oh and for the love of all that is holy, do NOT EVER piss off the Faceless. I did last time and they will make your experience far worse.
Constantly stealth attacking you or coming into your path with random patrols. As to the side-tracking shit, you have to go into an apartment complex to get a keycard so you can go to a cryo chamber so you can deactivate the pods so you can kill the people inside of it so you can get some sort of item which I forgot which it was. You need to power it up first by going to a power management facility and redistributing power (you can't power up everything) and it is faaaaar away from other stuff so backtracking is inevitable. You need to go into a series of caves, attract a bunch of spores on you til you get to lvl 30 in infection and then you'll have to fight a sort of miniboss for an item that the game does shit job at telling you about how important it is. You need to go into a labyrinth of caves just to find a fucking gear or something to repair the gate. Deep Cavern is excessively big and empty as fuck. And all the developer could think of was to take a simple quest and cut it up into as many pieces as possible and then throw them as far away from one another as possible. And that's not even getting into the final boss fight... That's why I think you should cheat. Just cheat. Pump your character up to godhood and then just attack the main bosses stupid fucking eye. You'll have a far better time in Deep Cavern if you just cheat and follow a guide so you can get it over with as quickly as possible. How can a game so good have total retardation end game design? Personally I would have cut out the labyrinth and the fungal forest completely. I'd spread their unique enemies around to other locations of the DC instead.
I'd get rid of the god damn motherfucking power plant bullshit where you can't power up everything at once and have to go back and repower shit. And I'd add in a different way of getting into the main bosses area instead of the gate. So if you want to have an easier time with the boss then you have to deal with the gate first and then you can use some kind of biowhatever to lower its attack and defense stats in the uh... Observation deck above it. But if you just want to go "fuck it, I'mma just gun it" then you should be able to just circumvent the entire thing by just going guns in blazing through a breach that is crawling with spawns. It means the boss will be more dangerous, but that's the risk you took. So yeah, I'd cut away the fat. Sooooo much fat. Too much fat. Deep Caverns is morbidly obese. And it needs a hot date with a cleaver. Just cut away at it. I don't care if all that remains afterwards is just bones. Better that than being drowned in blubber. Fuck Deep Caverns. I still love Underrail and will suggest it to anyone. But I also suggest you cheat in any kind of way you can when you get down there. By using cheat engine or something. Just cheat your way through it. Or if you want to spend 10+ hours just running around doing chores then be my guest.
I don't understand why he doesn't fix it. I mean, most of the game was made by one person right? Is it just because he's stubborn about "his art"? Cause that part soils the game. It's not like he needs to redesign the entirety of it.
- Like I said before, just change it so that you can power up everything without having to alternate the power (which means you can cut away one bit of backtracking at the very least).
- The mushroom forest is redundant. Preiod. It's just another damn series of fetch quest map transitions. Get rid of it. The game isn't enhanced in any way by this area. Just take the parts that are there (the art assets and enemies and stuff) and just cram it into some other more vital part of the maps. Perhaps a city area or something. But get rid of the boss fight and the damn chlamydia fruit you need to collect. The area itself just feels like he had an idea for something but couldn't fit it in anywhere else in the game so he just shoehorn it in and fractures the fetchquestathon even more by forcing you to collect yet another piece. The area doesn't add anything of substance and is better off being severed like a cancerous tumor.
- Labyrinth is even worse though. This area is just godawful. Cut it. Cut the damn fetch quest plot device too.
- OOoooooor... Move it. Move the design closer to the gate with the main boss behind it and make it an alternate combat heavy entrance which is super dangerous to go through but allows you to skip the gate completely if you want to. Just change what the exit and enter zones go, add in a little hole in the wall or something near the gate and then voila! Done.
- Add in some sort of NPC or whatever that could act as a navigator for whatever parts are still remaining for the fetchquestathon so you don't feel forced to look up an online guide. Could be an old information booth that the tchortists hacked so that they could navigate the area better and now you can use for hints. What else... I mean this would cut away 2 entire areas and skip the backtracking to the power plant, but is it enough? I'd argue there are more parts that are redundant but I dunno... It might be enough to make it less tedious. Point is, it wouldn't be super-difficult. It's not like he has to redesign the entirety of Deep Cavern. Just cut away the fluff. Add it in somewhere else.
When you're not fighting the Faceless and you avoid getting main boss spawn on you (which is really easy after talking to Leoo) it is just empty. A whole lot of nothing. Just backtracking back and forth. On that note I'd argue get rid of a lot of the breakable walls and shit and just unlock the damn doors. We're going to find a jackhammer and have more than enough batteries to charge it with so it's not like it adds anything but more backtracking and annoyingly being forced to wait for the drill to bring down the walls. sigh Or just give us a god damn fast-travel button already... There's cars down there. Allow us to simply use a car (that we have to fix up) and drive to important sections of the facility (dialogue screen pops up, you select where you wanna go, loading screen; you're there.) I can't understand how he can possibly delude himself into thinking that that shit is actually well designed.
I know for damn certain what I fucking want and that is less god damn backtracking and fluff areas that were clearly just shoehorned in because he had created the art assets and didn't want them to go to waste . Seriously, it is such a damn good game. But that part? My god I hated nearly every part of it. And this is the end we're talking about. This is the part that will be fresh in people's memories. When they leave the game the most distinct feeling they'll have is what they felt towards the end. And what I felt was nothing good. Hell, it's hard to even imagine suggesting the game to others because of this.
What are the main problems with DC? Well, nearly all of them ties into the way the rest of the game was designed. Most parts of underpassages and caves you didn't HAVE to explore. That was kinda the point. It's optional. YOU decide to explore it fully and get a bit fatigued from the exploration aspect. But the problem with DC is that the exploration aspect is not optional, it is forced due to how the quest is set up down there. So if you're starting to feel a bit... Disencouraged from exploration cause you already have damn good gear and a pretty high level and stuff then it isn't quite as rewarding as it used to be early on. At least that's how I felt. Like, I've explored. I've enjoyed that part of the game but I've gotten my fill and I'd rather not do it anymore. "well, tough shit, here's an entire network of maps that you are FORCED to explore" The rest of the game doesn't force this on you. DC does. The rest of the game has quite varied quests and solutions to them. It has lots of interesting characters and locations and an interesting world to explore in terms of lore and history and political intrigue. Nearly all of that is gone in DC. There's barely any characters to talk to and it doesn't have any quests beyond fetch questing and most of the solutions revolve around simply not dying. It doesn't have much political intrigue either. Most of the meat is in form of backstory but it is far between and relies mostly on old notes on computers and stuff. The rest of the game is varied in both what you'll interact with and HOW you interact with it. DC doesn't provide either.
There's always a bit of backtracking involved in Underrail but there isn't a moment where it feels so forced and with nothing to do. If you're going from Protectorate to meet up with some agents then yes, there is technically a bit of backtracking but it's over with rather quickly and you get to use two trains to cut some distance. DC on the other hand doesn't offer any kind of fast-travel anywhere at all and you're forced to walk all over the places looking for plot devices. The rest of the game does not feel bloated when it comes to backtracking and forcing the player to constantly go through map transitions just for one quest. DC? DC loves it and wants to torture you with it. And then we get to the main boss...
I'll just say this, I do not really remember a single point in the game that is even remotely close to what the last boss fight is like. So it feels alien and not in a good way. It just feels out of place. Like it doesn't belong. There's been no trials like this before where you've had to train yourself and remember your past actions so you can fully utilize your knowledge and skills and accomplishments to take down the last big baddie. Nope. It just suddenly and violently appears and curbstomps your ass.
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Radiosity
Writiosity
"I don't understand why he doesn't fix it. "
Probably because he's spent the last two years working on the massive expansion coming in the next few months.
Probably because he's spent the last two years working on the massive expansion coming in the next few months.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
In that discord chat I mentioned later on that I'd rather he fix the shit end than that he just ignores it and works on a fucking expansion pack.
I abhor the Deep Caverns. I'd rather he fix it and never give us anything else ever again than for it to just be left in the state it's in.
I abhor the Deep Caverns. I'd rather he fix it and never give us anything else ever again than for it to just be left in the state it's in.
It seems me and plenty of others were right about many stuff in Fallout 76.
Even though I thought PvP would be pointless and awful, it is still worse than I thought.
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Alkuam
Lurker
Those looked like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. enemies at 2:47 and 3:13 in that video. Burer and pseudo-giant.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
I'm still flabbergasted that this is 60 bucks (80 for special edition) with microtransactions on top.
a721402
Perhaps tomorrow will be better.
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/fa...al-game?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
So, the day one patch of Fo76 will bigger than the actual game, that's not normal even by their own standard.
So, the day one patch of Fo76 will bigger than the actual game, that's not normal even by their own standard.
Alphons
National Beholder
Day 1 patch- We've fixed games' suicidal thoughts and it no longer commits seppuku out of shame.
mef
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
spoilers below
in addition, i decided to roleplay a stealthy, non-combat oriented character. in many rpgs, this would not be a valid choice but underrail seemed to be cool with it, it had a great levelling system in which characters who don't fight much are not discriminated, i could go through all the quests just fine and had lots of fun doing it. the game never gave me a hint that i shouldn't play this way. and then the deep caverns came and all of a sudden it turned out that i have to kill the final boss and my character is completely useless. it was not possible to finish the game with him. i felt like someone prepared a huge, wonderful cake for me and while i was enjoying it, they smacked my face into it
i think that ending was disappointing plot-wise, too. it felt lazy, the game gave me little explanation what exactly is tchort and why do i have to kill it, many questions remained unanswered and everything was explained with "umm it's supernatural you won't understand it". oh, and all my choice regarding the cube has been rendered irrelevant as the game forces you to do what it wants you to do. i loved underrail but seriously, the ending is so much different to the rest of the game that it feels like a entirely different team made it
(and what a great idea to call the main boss "tchort" which literally means "devil" in many european languages, won't spoil anything at all)
Just read on the Nukapedia wiki that the Scorched Plague conveniently killed off all humans in the Fallout 76 region prior to the game including the BOS and the Enclave.
Guess we now know why they are basically all irrelevant to the bigger Fallout picture.
Imagine if all of those factions had survived (*sigh * yes also the BOS and the Enclave). It could at least have made the world somewhat more interesting.
Goddammit, now I want to make a Single Player mod that does indeed bring all of these factions back and even integrate the Scorched into the Fallout universe that makes sense.
Guess we now know why they are basically all irrelevant to the bigger Fallout picture.
Imagine if all of those factions had survived (*sigh * yes also the BOS and the Enclave). It could at least have made the world somewhat more interesting.
Goddammit, now I want to make a Single Player mod that does indeed bring all of these factions back and even integrate the Scorched into the Fallout universe that makes sense.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
How exactly does schorched with pipe pistols take down Enclave with power armor?
Hulk'O'Saurus
Still Mildly Glowing
You do know there is a way to poison him... with a stealthy character...
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Uuhh, they caught them while they out of their power armor?
But seriously, what makes it even more hilarious is that a player with shit gear can easily dispatch these Scorched guys.
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It was the big Dragon ... ohhh sorry Scorchebeast that blasted them away with his fire dragonbreath ... oh sorry scorchray. But no worry you can defeat the Dragon ... ohhh sorry Scorchebeast with your Pipepistol.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Does it have a scale loose in its armor?