Sheltem said:
Glad you are up and running. Any bug is worthy of a post, so if you do find anything, let me know.
Any stuff related to unofficial F2 patches goes in here!
- Thread starter Per
- Start date
- Status
Glad you are up and running. Any bug is worthy of a post, so if you do find anything, let me know.
You need more bugs to squish? Here they come!
I don’t know if it has something to do with the text-delay option in Preferences but somehow I couldn’t find any optimal (slow) setting. Anyhow, some NPC’s over-head-text lines are sometimes hard or impossible to read. A little pause between the lines couldn’t hurt:
- Vault City: Sergeant Stark’s lines could need a longer pause.
- Redding: The guards in the casino. It looks like both guards are talking to each other but both lines from the two guards standing close to each other mess each others lines too often. Some alternation with pause would be easier to read if possible.
- Broken Hills: The mutant couple in the hotel talk much too fast.
Stables
- You can walk into one of the hex of the lower table in Myron’s living room
New Reno
- I can’t tell if it exists in every name you get for boxing (and/or Made-Man) but “Lightning” had an additional space afterwards. Over-head-text lines look, for example, like this: “Saw you fight in the ring, Lightning . Blah, blah…”
- If you are looking for truly modifying something better in New Reno: the requirement of Intelligence 8 for respectful talking to Mr. Salvatore is exaggerated. IN 6 or an alternative requirement of Speech 50+ would be more appropriate. I didn’t like the fact that I had to suck Mentat pills twice there just to be more polite for getting his 3rd quest with my character’s natural IN 7 and Speech over 80.
I don’t know if it has something to do with the text-delay option in Preferences but somehow I couldn’t find any optimal (slow) setting. Anyhow, some NPC’s over-head-text lines are sometimes hard or impossible to read. A little pause between the lines couldn’t hurt:
- Vault City: Sergeant Stark’s lines could need a longer pause.
- Redding: The guards in the casino. It looks like both guards are talking to each other but both lines from the two guards standing close to each other mess each others lines too often. Some alternation with pause would be easier to read if possible.
- Broken Hills: The mutant couple in the hotel talk much too fast.
Stables
- You can walk into one of the hex of the lower table in Myron’s living room
New Reno
- I can’t tell if it exists in every name you get for boxing (and/or Made-Man) but “Lightning” had an additional space afterwards. Over-head-text lines look, for example, like this: “Saw you fight in the ring, Lightning . Blah, blah…”
- If you are looking for truly modifying something better in New Reno: the requirement of Intelligence 8 for respectful talking to Mr. Salvatore is exaggerated. IN 6 or an alternative requirement of Speech 50+ would be more appropriate. I didn’t like the fact that I had to suck Mentat pills twice there just to be more polite for getting his 3rd quest with my character’s natural IN 7 and Speech over 80.
Hermit said:
CH 6 is an alternative. Being smart doesn't necessarily mean you know how to handle people.
Per, I totally agree that you don't have to be a genius to be polite. I guess every dumbhead in the real ghettos today know this.
Well, next to CH 6, Speech 50+ would be also an appropriate requirement. Being polite to Big Jesus doesn't seem to have a requirement (at least IN4+ maybe), so what's the deal with this kind of boring 3rd quest of Mr. Salvatore.
Well, next to CH 6, Speech 50+ would be also an appropriate requirement. Being polite to Big Jesus doesn't seem to have a requirement (at least IN4+ maybe), so what's the deal with this kind of boring 3rd quest of Mr. Salvatore.
Hermit said:
Almost every non-stupid character would have picked up Speech 50% long, long before arriving in New Reno, though. Since CH has too little of an impact on the game, shifting emphasis towards IN and Speech isn't really the right way to go. You're right that it's a problem that they were being grossly inconsistent, but that kind of change is a matter for the add-on pack anyway, not the fixpack.
New Reno
- Something that could be fixed/improved and probably happens not only in New Reno: If you cleanse the clubs of the family members, some of the bar/casino patrons and the bartender seem to join the fight, even if you or your enemies don’t accidentally hurt them. Fine, and the after you killed the entire family member designated NPCs, the bartender and these mocky patrons seem to loose interest in fighting you. This is isn’t so bad but unfortunately, the bartender and these patrons won’t return to their original spot, unlike fleeing patrons who return to their slot machines for example. The bartender continues to speak his over-head-text lines and serve you the drinks but totally out-of-place now.
Well, normally, the clubs would probably be out of business after the massacres, but just to re-establish the atmosphere anyone should return to their designated places again. I remember to have noticed that many NPC seem to have this “return to point of origin” behaviour but it seem to miss at some, like for the bartender and patrons mentioned above for example.
Yo, it's not a big deal but still something worth of a fix if possible without much work.
Edit:
Ah, and something else about the general fighting behaviour of NPCs:
It happens too often that NPCs try to use all their Action Points - what isn't that bad though - what means they put away their weapons and punch or stab you with melee weapons instead. Unfortunately, they seem to be too dumb to grab their more powerful guns in the next round.
Can this be fixed with an AI script command, like “Equip MostDamagingWeapon if enough AP for using it available”?
Edit 2:
While having a gunfight with the Bishop clan, I noticed there is a Line-of-Sight issue with the right wall of the Shark Club. I guess the round thing on the wall should be a window but you can’t see/shoot through it; rather only through the outermost piece of the wall where it shouldn’t be possible. The LoS at the left wall it isn’t perfect either but it looks more believable like the right one.
Something like LoS is never perfect in 2d games and I don’t know if this could be fixed. It’s not a critical thing either; just something what I also have noticed while playing.
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3043/scr00000nw4.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/9523/scr00001nq8.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1065/scr00002sc9.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/306/scr00003za5.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5103/scr00004ub3.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1047/scr00005kx2.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5572/scr00006tg1.jpg
- Something that could be fixed/improved and probably happens not only in New Reno: If you cleanse the clubs of the family members, some of the bar/casino patrons and the bartender seem to join the fight, even if you or your enemies don’t accidentally hurt them. Fine, and the after you killed the entire family member designated NPCs, the bartender and these mocky patrons seem to loose interest in fighting you. This is isn’t so bad but unfortunately, the bartender and these patrons won’t return to their original spot, unlike fleeing patrons who return to their slot machines for example. The bartender continues to speak his over-head-text lines and serve you the drinks but totally out-of-place now.
Well, normally, the clubs would probably be out of business after the massacres, but just to re-establish the atmosphere anyone should return to their designated places again. I remember to have noticed that many NPC seem to have this “return to point of origin” behaviour but it seem to miss at some, like for the bartender and patrons mentioned above for example.
Yo, it's not a big deal but still something worth of a fix if possible without much work.
Edit:
Ah, and something else about the general fighting behaviour of NPCs:
It happens too often that NPCs try to use all their Action Points - what isn't that bad though - what means they put away their weapons and punch or stab you with melee weapons instead. Unfortunately, they seem to be too dumb to grab their more powerful guns in the next round.
Can this be fixed with an AI script command, like “Equip MostDamagingWeapon if enough AP for using it available”?
Edit 2:
While having a gunfight with the Bishop clan, I noticed there is a Line-of-Sight issue with the right wall of the Shark Club. I guess the round thing on the wall should be a window but you can’t see/shoot through it; rather only through the outermost piece of the wall where it shouldn’t be possible. The LoS at the left wall it isn’t perfect either but it looks more believable like the right one.
Something like LoS is never perfect in 2d games and I don’t know if this could be fixed. It’s not a critical thing either; just something what I also have noticed while playing.
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3043/scr00000nw4.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/9523/scr00001nq8.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1065/scr00002sc9.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/306/scr00003za5.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5103/scr00004ub3.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1047/scr00005kx2.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5572/scr00006tg1.jpg
Alright, started up a few characters and haven't gotten very far with many of them, here are a few things I've noticed thus far.
Stuff that's been around awhile that may not be fixable/not worthy of fixing:
Music bug - The music will skip around, this happens occasionally when changing "scenes" (read, green grids). I can reproduce the same effect by tabbing down the game and tabbing back up, other than that I don't know the cause.
Taking no damage exp bug - I've not really had the opportunity to check this fully yet, but I remember there is an exp bonus for finishing a fight by killing all enemies without taking damage. Now, I've actually noticed no difference in exp gains thus far, but in the past it irked me that I wouldn't get the gain if I had lost hp from a previous fight but none on the current, the game was checking for scored hits and hp loss. Getting struck for no damage would also cancel the exp bonus.
weird combat/ modifier regarding mouseover - This one is plain superstition on my part, but it seems to be effective. The actual probability of striking an enemy seems to be effected by how long you mouse over the target - if you click before the hit chance pops up, there seems to be a decreased chance of hitting the target vs waiting. The easiest place to check this is in the Temple of Trials, and it is where I notice it most. This may or may not be related to speech choices being more effective if you wait a few moments before responding to the npc.
Torrs angry voice - I'm pretty sure that red popup npc text means they are angry, yet there are various NPC's around that seem to have red text when they shouldn't. The best example of this is Torr thanking you after you kill the radscorps in Klamath, one would think the text would be green.
Various bugs in Klamath:
When attempting to repair dead and broken repair bot near the vertibird, (I'll test anything for xp bonuses) in klamath the message box reads "you got it?" - sounds like a text mix up, from npc skill uses, but I only had Sulik in my party.
Also, I've been noticing that Sulik wont always attack enemies in combat, I remember there being serious combat issues, (they don't seem to be as bad now) and I had to find just the right custom combat choices to get npc's fighting 99% of the time.
After convincing (scare) the duntons to stop rustling via bug parts, townsfolk act as if you did the rustling quest for the duntons. (Red text in trapper town "you're just like the duntons") - I noticed that before I had the patch working correctly duntons would react in conversation as if you had accepted and botched the rustling job.
Botched Dunton scare - When failing to scare the duntons properly (didn't wait long enough before my reply that time, haha) they appear to have spawned only spiked knuckles and not their regular gear.
Message from car in trapper town still calls fuel cell regulator a "fuel injection system" I'm not sure if this one is worthy, it may be the character is unfamiliar with the part, but it still bothers me as a mislabeled part, if your character doesn't know, it should have a more appropriate label. I think that you used to be able to get the fuel cell controller there before they released the game, and never bothered changing the text.
Speaking of fixing things that shouldn't be fixed, I recall a bug that occurred in the raiders base (not vault 15) with the (rock) walls (and possibly other locations) - You could actually use the repair skill on the wall, heal it of damage, and gain exp repeatedly. I found this out due to a slip of the mouse. The exp gain vs time weren't worth it imo. Anyhow I haven't had the chance to check this yet but I figured it was worth mentioning.
Have some more written on a different computer, and more to come surely =)
Stuff that's been around awhile that may not be fixable/not worthy of fixing:
Music bug - The music will skip around, this happens occasionally when changing "scenes" (read, green grids). I can reproduce the same effect by tabbing down the game and tabbing back up, other than that I don't know the cause.
Taking no damage exp bug - I've not really had the opportunity to check this fully yet, but I remember there is an exp bonus for finishing a fight by killing all enemies without taking damage. Now, I've actually noticed no difference in exp gains thus far, but in the past it irked me that I wouldn't get the gain if I had lost hp from a previous fight but none on the current, the game was checking for scored hits and hp loss. Getting struck for no damage would also cancel the exp bonus.
weird combat/ modifier regarding mouseover - This one is plain superstition on my part, but it seems to be effective. The actual probability of striking an enemy seems to be effected by how long you mouse over the target - if you click before the hit chance pops up, there seems to be a decreased chance of hitting the target vs waiting. The easiest place to check this is in the Temple of Trials, and it is where I notice it most. This may or may not be related to speech choices being more effective if you wait a few moments before responding to the npc.
Torrs angry voice - I'm pretty sure that red popup npc text means they are angry, yet there are various NPC's around that seem to have red text when they shouldn't. The best example of this is Torr thanking you after you kill the radscorps in Klamath, one would think the text would be green.
Various bugs in Klamath:
When attempting to repair dead and broken repair bot near the vertibird, (I'll test anything for xp bonuses) in klamath the message box reads "you got it?" - sounds like a text mix up, from npc skill uses, but I only had Sulik in my party.
Also, I've been noticing that Sulik wont always attack enemies in combat, I remember there being serious combat issues, (they don't seem to be as bad now) and I had to find just the right custom combat choices to get npc's fighting 99% of the time.
After convincing (scare) the duntons to stop rustling via bug parts, townsfolk act as if you did the rustling quest for the duntons. (Red text in trapper town "you're just like the duntons") - I noticed that before I had the patch working correctly duntons would react in conversation as if you had accepted and botched the rustling job.
Botched Dunton scare - When failing to scare the duntons properly (didn't wait long enough before my reply that time, haha) they appear to have spawned only spiked knuckles and not their regular gear.
Message from car in trapper town still calls fuel cell regulator a "fuel injection system" I'm not sure if this one is worthy, it may be the character is unfamiliar with the part, but it still bothers me as a mislabeled part, if your character doesn't know, it should have a more appropriate label. I think that you used to be able to get the fuel cell controller there before they released the game, and never bothered changing the text.
Speaking of fixing things that shouldn't be fixed, I recall a bug that occurred in the raiders base (not vault 15) with the (rock) walls (and possibly other locations) - You could actually use the repair skill on the wall, heal it of damage, and gain exp repeatedly. I found this out due to a slip of the mouse. The exp gain vs time weren't worth it imo. Anyhow I haven't had the chance to check this yet but I figured it was worth mentioning.
Have some more written on a different computer, and more to come surely =)
A question about the mod patch, are there any plans for improving the effectivness of "useless" skills? ei: traps, throwing, first aid. Maybe some perks and new items are in order.
Also, some tags could stand some changing. Such as Pyromaniac. I've never ever ever used the flamethrower because of the high ammo weight and relativly low damage output. Maybe the Pyro perk could give the player a massive critical chance and damage instead of a cruddy +5 dmg per hit. Anything to make it a worthwile path really. (Maybe even increase flamethrower damage)
The mysterious Stranger ought to be more badass really. Gauss pistol, finesse/one hander. if it's lower, increase armor ratings to brotherhood combat level. Changing his appearence to be dependant/increaseing on the relative difficulty of the encounter. (enemy vs char level * # of enemies vs character party, + enemy weapons)
And maybe someone could edit his graphic to give him a black hat. Because I always picture him with one and any mysterious stranger needs one =D (you could even attach the armor bonuses to an armor/hat graphic and make it a hidden item or whatnot)
I was also thinking about the doctor skill and healing. What do you guys think about changing the "healing" of "broken" limbs to something more along the lines of "patching up" instead of "instant heal"? I was thinking a succesful doctoring could say, splint a broken leg; reducing the broken penalty (walking ap, running) by 50 or 75 or even 90% (skill dependant?) It should also effectivly reduce the healing time, but not negate it entirely. Succesful strikes against the limb could remove the fix, requiring it to be doctored again, and crits on the limb could break it again/more. Increasing the time needed to heal, as well as removing the fix.
*edit* I was also thinking about adding the possibility of permanently destroying/crippling a limb. It could show up as a special perk and modify the character permanently, how would depend on what was crippled/destroyed. It would make the game more interesting anyway. Also for people who don't like it, the option might also be added to one/some of the supercomputer/bio labs for science/doctors to "find" a way to rebuild the part. (like say, the SAD "bio goo", or brotherhood station in San Fran.)
Anyhow, I'm sure there are plenty of these ideas out there already, is there a list or something of suggestions I could peruse before I go preaching to the choir again?
Also, some tags could stand some changing. Such as Pyromaniac. I've never ever ever used the flamethrower because of the high ammo weight and relativly low damage output. Maybe the Pyro perk could give the player a massive critical chance and damage instead of a cruddy +5 dmg per hit. Anything to make it a worthwile path really. (Maybe even increase flamethrower damage)
The mysterious Stranger ought to be more badass really. Gauss pistol, finesse/one hander. if it's lower, increase armor ratings to brotherhood combat level. Changing his appearence to be dependant/increaseing on the relative difficulty of the encounter. (enemy vs char level * # of enemies vs character party, + enemy weapons)
And maybe someone could edit his graphic to give him a black hat. Because I always picture him with one and any mysterious stranger needs one =D (you could even attach the armor bonuses to an armor/hat graphic and make it a hidden item or whatnot)
I was also thinking about the doctor skill and healing. What do you guys think about changing the "healing" of "broken" limbs to something more along the lines of "patching up" instead of "instant heal"? I was thinking a succesful doctoring could say, splint a broken leg; reducing the broken penalty (walking ap, running) by 50 or 75 or even 90% (skill dependant?) It should also effectivly reduce the healing time, but not negate it entirely. Succesful strikes against the limb could remove the fix, requiring it to be doctored again, and crits on the limb could break it again/more. Increasing the time needed to heal, as well as removing the fix.
*edit* I was also thinking about adding the possibility of permanently destroying/crippling a limb. It could show up as a special perk and modify the character permanently, how would depend on what was crippled/destroyed. It would make the game more interesting anyway. Also for people who don't like it, the option might also be added to one/some of the supercomputer/bio labs for science/doctors to "find" a way to rebuild the part. (like say, the SAD "bio goo", or brotherhood station in San Fran.)
Anyhow, I'm sure there are plenty of these ideas out there already, is there a list or something of suggestions I could peruse before I go preaching to the choir again?
OK, first thing: don't quintuple post! We have this:
edityourpost
Not really fixable.
Are you sure there ever was a bonus? I never assumed there was. Try saving before ending combat, then use Stimpaks on yourself, see if you get the "For killing your enemies without taking a scratch" message, load, end combat without healing, see if you get the same xp.
I would have to agree with the superstition part, or else the BI people need to be fired from all RPG production ever.
I'm not sure they were ever 100% consistent with this in Fo1 either, but it's a point.
Has happened to me too when trying to fix dead bots. Probably an engine thing.
This is known as well. Don't think it can be fixed. Happens a lot more to me if I put them on mêlée weapons.
They're different critters on the pastures map, and only supposed to have their knuckles there.
Well, this is new to me. Let us know if you find a wall where it works more or less consistently.
Your Modoc town reputation must be Accepted.
Would need changing the exe. It could probably be done (say, upping the damage bonus from 5 to 10 or 15) if we find the offsets for the perk, but it's not something for the fixpack.
These are entirely impractical/impossible.
edityourpost
Sheltem said:
Not really fixable.
Are you sure there ever was a bonus? I never assumed there was. Try saving before ending combat, then use Stimpaks on yourself, see if you get the "For killing your enemies without taking a scratch" message, load, end combat without healing, see if you get the same xp.
I would have to agree with the superstition part, or else the BI people need to be fired from all RPG production ever.
I'm not sure they were ever 100% consistent with this in Fo1 either, but it's a point.
Has happened to me too when trying to fix dead bots. Probably an engine thing.
This is known as well. Don't think it can be fixed. Happens a lot more to me if I put them on mêlée weapons.
They're different critters on the pastures map, and only supposed to have their knuckles there.
Well, this is new to me. Let us know if you find a wall where it works more or less consistently.
Your Modoc town reputation must be Accepted.
Would need changing the exe. It could probably be done (say, upping the damage bonus from 5 to 10 or 15) if we find the offsets for the perk, but it's not something for the fixpack.
These are entirely impractical/impossible.
I can confirm that there are a lot of wrongly/misleading colored text lines; not only in the over-head-lines but also noticeable with the Empathy perk in dialogues. It would be too much work to list (and fix) them all.
@Sheltem
You can download here a mod that should improve the Mysterious Stranger.
@Sheltem
You can download here a mod that should improve the Mysterious Stranger.
Sheltem said:
This is actually not a bug. The reason you get this is because your town rep is less than 5. That text line just so happens to be one of the lines they say if they don't really like you that much.
xeno said:
As long as just proto files are replaced you are fine. If I remember correctly, doesn't the ammo patch also come with some script fixes as well? I cannot remember exactly, but be sure you are only replacing proto files.
Darth l33t
First time out of the vault
Did you kill the Prez with explosives? Stealth explosives kills have a good chance of corrupting the map when you leave it; the game then crashes when you re-enter. Super Stimpak kills don't seem to cause this problem, so use those instead.EVilzealot said:
Skynet
Mildly Dipped
EVilzealot said:
This crash happened with Celestial's 1.05 patch. Was it in use before applying Killaps patch?
The perk Smooth Talker doesn’t seem to be implemented for Mr. Salvatore – you know, the guy where you need to be a genius (IN8+) to remember Mason’s words that you have to always address him by "Mr. Salvatore".
I’ve checked this thread here where dude_obj pointed to specific scripts but there is only one Smooth Talker use with Mason but not for Mr. Salvatore.
After replaying New Reno, I noticed that Mason actually drums this into your head that you have to address by "Mr. Salvatore" before you may walk through the door.
Ah, please remove the IN check there! Only a dumbhead of IN<4 should forget Mason's words. I bet removing the IN requirement is much easier than including the Smooth Talker perk support there.
Oh well, I guess I need to swallow down Mentats again...
I’ve checked this thread here where dude_obj pointed to specific scripts but there is only one Smooth Talker use with Mason but not for Mr. Salvatore.
After replaying New Reno, I noticed that Mason actually drums this into your head that you have to address by "Mr. Salvatore" before you may walk through the door.
Ah, please remove the IN check there! Only a dumbhead of IN<4 should forget Mason's words. I bet removing the IN requirement is much easier than including the Smooth Talker perk support there.
Oh well, I guess I need to swallow down Mentats again...
IN requirements can be included in 2 different ways. The first is in a dialogue option specification like this:
In this case Smooth Talker is figured in automatically. However, sometimes they can also go something like this:
In which case Smooth Talker wouldn't help with that IF clause. It's how they chose to make the game. We can only submit to their wisdom.
Code:
dlgoption(what_msgfile_to_use,what_string_to_use,min_IQ_to_get_it);In this case Smooth Talker is figured in automatically. However, sometimes they can also go something like this:
Code:
if dude_IQ>83 then begin
dlgoption(823,"you suck1!!1",4);
endIn which case Smooth Talker wouldn't help with that IF clause. It's how they chose to make the game. We can only submit to their wisdom.
- Status