Any stuff related to unofficial F2 patches goes in here!

[Haenlomal]

It's supposed to be in the game, but (in Per's words) was "prevented by a scripting bug". Killap fixed this, but on looking closer at the original script, I can see why it gives both messages and the 500xp two times. Should be very easy to fix.

 

[Per]

something called "SAD."

Misplaced quotation mark! Or else there is some style guide advocating this (probably American), since it's such a common error. Kind of like the "two spaces following a full stop" plague.

 

[Haenlomal]

something called "SAD."

Misplaced quotation mark! Or else there is some style guide advocating this (probably American), since it's such a common error. Kind of like the "two spaces following a full stop" plague.

Haenlomal puts on his English tutor hat....

Good call there, Per. You are correct in this particular instance. As a general rule of thumb, if you are quoting the exact name of something, only the name itself should be enclosed in quotes, unless the punctuation itself is part of the quote. In this case, "SAD" is the name, so it should be "SAD". or "S.A.D." but not "SAD."

As for your comment about the American style guide, that's a bit more tricky. In American, periods, commas, semi-colons, question marks, and exclamation marks always go inside the quotation marks regardless of logic. The only exception would be quotation of a proper noun (like above), and even then, it's not strictly observed in American.

There was a practical reason for this (though I really don't know how true this story is: apparently, printing presses in the early days were prone to defect, and for some reason it usually meant that the bottom right hand corner of the plate was not being printed properly. If they followed the strict grammar rules of leaving the punctuation outside the quotation, then the mark would be lost. So the printers reversed the quotation mark and the period. The train of thought here was that the quotation mark is set higher than periods and commas, so in the event of a defect, there's still a good chance that it'll get printed.

By contrast, British and Canadian follow a more logical rule: if the punctuation is part of the quotation, then leave it enclosed in the quotation. Otherwise, out it goes. For example:

James said, "Get down"! <---- James is not quoting anyone. He's making a very emphatic statement. So out goes the exclamation mark.

I heard James say to people, "Get down!" <---- James is being quoted by me, and the exclamation mark is part of conveying the quote. So it stays in.

Given that Fallout is an American product, I'm not surprised at all to see them follow American grammar rules. At the same time, almost nobody pays attention to this kind of stuff anyway, so I won't insist on it one way or the other. I'll be the first person to admit that I don't consistently follow the rules one way or the other.

Haenlomal takes off his English tutor hat...

Cheers,

-- The Haen.

 

[Superfly]

Killap

Only to a degree. It just means that the .exe file copied over correctly and not necessarily that all the fixes are loaded correctly. If you still have the patch000.dat file in your directory then that would screw everything up even though it says 1.02.

How do I know if I have this patch000.dat file?? Where do I find it? I looked every where in the BlackIsle/Fallout2 files and its not there. Even did a system wide search and nothing.

 

[killap]

How do I know if I have this patch000.dat file?? Where do I find it? I looked every where in the BlackIsle/Fallout2 files and its not there. Even did a system wide search and nothing.

It would be found in your main Fallout 2 directory. (same spot as the exe) If it is not there then you most likely don't have it. (unless the patch comes in the master.dat This can only be proven if after you do a fresh install of your game it says you have 1.02 installed but there is not patch000.dat file in your Fallout directory.)

 

[Per]

</derail>

As for your comment about the American style guide, that's a bit more tricky. In American, periods, commas, semi-colons, question marks, and exclamation marks always go inside the quotation marks regardless of logic.

Where it annoys me the most is when the period goes inside the quotation even when there's a competing logic that says it shouldn't. For instance, there's a Babylon 5 resource page I've visited a lot that consistently does this:

Continuity error: Sheridan has already killed Delenn (in the episode "Sheridan Kills Delenn.")

The person who types this apparently thinks it's more important for the period to go inside the quotation mark than to have the period properly close the sentence.

There was a practical reason for this (though I really don't know how true this story is: apparently, printing presses in the early days were prone to defect, and for some reason it usually meant that the bottom right hand corner of the plate was not being printed properly.

Interesting. Do you by any chance know the reason for why the word "I" is capitalized in English? There's supposed to be some anecdote proving that this practice is ridiculous, but I've never been able to find it. We can take it to PMs perhaps.

James said, "Get down"! <---- James is not quoting anyone. He's making a very emphatic statement. So out goes the exclamation mark.

I don't think I've ever seen this principle used. To me it seems that this construction is meant to convey that James did not say "Get down" in an exclamatory manner, but that the fact he said it at all was remarkable.

On a tangential note, in Swedish you could for instance write this:

Did he really shout, "Get down!"?

You don't put more than one exclamation mark, however this one is also correct:

His shout, "Get down!", was heard only by squirrels.

Which would be a little (more) awkward if you had to put the comma inside the quotation with the exclamation mark.

 

[scowie]

In the random encounter VPAT_Strong_Slavers raider that using leather-jacket-blue-pants anim (like Ian in FO1) has in inventory H&K CAWS which he can't use in battle. So in the beginning of game you can easily get expensive and powerful weapon. Maybe it is better to change CAWS to 10mm SMG or Desert Eagle?

I just killed the 3rd Morton Brother, Newt and his gang in an encounter. His gang could use their weapons ok (well, the ones that got the chance), but Newt himself could not. He never attacked despite having the opportunity and being the last to be killed. He was carrying a Light Support Weapon which has a strength requirement of 6, just like a H&K CAWS. Is this the reason those weapons do not get used? Their owners dont meet the strength requirements?

 

[Superfly]

It would be found in your main Fallout 2 directory. (same spot as the exe) If it is not there then you most likely don't have it. (unless the patch comes in the master.dat This can only be proven if after you do a fresh install of your game it says you have 1.02 installed but there is not patch000.dat file in your Fallout directory.)

So I should remove my fallout 2? Is that also manually removing all the files or do you just go to the "Add or Remove Programs" then reinstall?

Do I have to WinZip your patch again?

Sorry for all the questions. Not great in computer programs.

Update:

I removed Fallout 2 through the Add or Remove Programs. I didn't manually remove any files. Upon reinstallation the game reverted back to the 1.00 version. I didn't see patch000.dat file anywhere.

Because it went back to 1.00 version means I don't have it? I hope I don't.

Because the Master.Dat file is in a Notepad format and is over 325,000kb. trying to open it bogs my system down like I am running on a 28.8k modem. Making it impossible for me to open itto see if the patch000.dat file is in there.

 

[killap]

If it says 1.0 then the patch is not there (hence no patch000.dat outside master.dat or built into it) Since you are running 1.0, version A of my patch is what you want.

 

[Superfly]

Now I have a completely NEW problem.

I have downloaded the the version A before and WinZip'd it into the default files Program Files/BlackIsle/fallout2. It worked the first time I did it and it worked great.

Since I uninstalled and reinstalled fallout 2. I can't get the patch to work now.

So I just removed everything again through "add or remove programs", then manually erased the files and started fresh.

I download it and it is coming to me as a Notepad file. Not as a WinZip file like it did the first time. When I change it to WinZip and extract it to Program Files/BlackIsle/fallout2. It still doesn't work.

I try and run the game and now I get an error message that says I need 20mb of free space to run it??? I have 60gb to work with.

Do you have any suggestions on where to download the patch onto a computer and how to extract files to make it work properly?

Thanks in advance.

 

[killap]

Downloading straight from my server http://zcn.phix-it.com/fallout2/unofficialFO2patch_final-A.rar works just fine. I assume the download available from NMA is the same.

This is a rar file so you will actually need winRAR to extract it. (unless winzip is now able to extract rars) WinRAR can be obtained from http://www.rarlab.com/

All you need to do is make sure you have a fresh install of the game and then extract all these files to your main Fallout2 directory. That's it.

 

[Superfly]

Sweet! It worked!! I got the first patch from this (www.nma-fallout) website the first time. It worked just fine with WinZip.

All I knew was I had 1.00 and downloaded it from here, WinZip'd it, and then I had 1.02.

Thanks for the help.

Is there any WEAPON MODS that work with your patch? I thought I saw one say it does.

 

[Haenlomal]

Do you by any chance know the reason for why the word "I" is capitalized in English? There's supposed to be some anecdote proving that this practice is ridiculous, but I've never been able to find it. We can take it to PMs perhaps.

On a tangential note, in Swedish you could for instance write this:

Did he really shout, "Get down!"?

You don't put more than one exclamation mark, however this one is also correct:

His shout, "Get down!", was heard only by squirrels.

Which would be a little (more) awkward if you had to put the comma inside the quotation with the exclamation mark.

Hey Per,

I can give a brief answer to both questions, but you're right. Let's take this to PMs and stop turning this thread into English Grammar 101. Sorry, killap, for the thread hijack, and I apologize to others as well.

Per, if you feel it's necessary, maybe you can clean up the thread a bit so that others won't think they've stumbled into school?

Cheers,

-- The Haen.

 

[killap]

Is there any WEAPON MODS that work with your patch? I thought I saw one say it does.

Any weapon mod that strictly modifies/adds only proto files should work just fine.

 

[Glovz]

I modified the proto files for all the existing weapons, ammo and armour - mod found here:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.php?action=file&file_id=753

This was done to correct the issue discussed here:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10861

But then found out that the amour fixes need all maps modified via the "Armor Stamp function" to be truly affective, discussed here:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11231

I have asked previously that my mod be included in the unofficial patch, but I think due to the number of files it affects and that I think some may not consider this to be a true bug fix - it has been turned down.

But if anyone wants to use my mod with killap's patch - I can see no reason why it would not be compatible - but take care in any case.

 

[Babax]

killap - thanks for your work, your patch is awesome!

And a questions

1. Are the models of party members changing if they put on different type of armor? Just like in 1.05 patch.

2. And one more After applying Glovz weapon mod over your patch - will be new weapon& armor available?

3. Can I use resolution patch with your patch?

 

[Silencer]

And a question - are the models of party members changing if they put on different type of armor? Just like in 1.05 patch.

No, and for the time being the B-team mod (which does this) can't be applied to a killapatched game.

 

[Babax]

Silencer, Killap why is it so difficult to implement models change after armor changing? Sad, sad,sad.... very sad

 

[Glovz]

@Babax

2. And one more After applying Glovz weapon mod over your patch - will be new weapon& armor available?

No - my mod only affects what already exists in F2 and does not add anything new. However, it does include the new gecko pelt killap implemented.

 

[Silencer]

Silencer, Killap why is it so difficult to implement models change after armor changing? Sad, sad,sad.... very sad

I guess it's not THAT hard, especially since that was already done by Jargo, but still, adapting it to work with the killapatch *is* workload.

Bitch to Bear Dude more.