Black Lives Matter

BigGuyCIA said:
This is like Hannibal Buress levels of logic. Somehow, the anecdotal cherry-picking of evidence is more representative than statistics (providing a bigger picture) conducted on the matter.

If I went to liveleak and started looking for evidence that "all black people are violent thugs," and started linking a bunch of videos showing such, would we be coming to the conclusion that "all black people are thugs,: or that I have confirmation bias?
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No, this post was more or less answering to another post that said that there were no incidents of unprovoked killings. I replied that you can easily find some on youtube ( and not just black folks either, your police seems to be killing people way too easily), meaning that in my opinion unless you're biased or aren't searching at all, you can easily see that there's a problem even with a random browsing (combined with the fact that people are protesting, probably with some reason, as well as america's history of racism against blacks that cannot logically have vanished in just a few decades). There weren't any statistics up for debate at the time so i wasn't disregarding any based on youtube videos.

To the stastitic that was posted later by mr fish, i replied with an article using other statistics.




CaptJ said:
Maybe when people stop digging up the KKK. Also, when is BLM accountable for anything? When they all merge together into single giant blob of flesh?
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Ok, why exactly should people stop digging up the KKK? Also, the KKK kills people, hangs them, burns them etc and does all that because of racism. You really have to be blind to compare them in any way with people rioting for a fair cause, even if like most of us you disagree with the riots themselves (or even if you disagree with the cause for that matter, because burning cars and looting shops simply cannot be compared to this shit https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...bramSmith.jpg/365px-ThomasShippAbramSmith.jpg ).
 
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Cimmerian Nights said:
Not even sure what that means. If anything I'm trying to express that narrowly focusing on the worst case scenario of a very complicated and multifaceted issue in a very diverse lanscape doesn't really give you a comprehensive understanding of an issue.
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I think the American continents are pretty freaky. You going to come over here and tell me I can't think like that? Good luck.
 
CaptJ said:
Yes but the statement that Black on Black crime isn't Black people's fault implies that Black people are somehow exempted from this basic rule which I believe is false.
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Who made the claim here?

I just think that it is fair to mention it, since a lot of people here mentioned that ALL lives matter, so let us make it clear that ALL criminals are responsible for their actions.

Quid pro quo.

CaptJ said:
Maybe when people stop digging up the KKK. Also, when is BLM accountable for anything? When they all merge together into single giant blob of flesh?
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I just feel that a lot of people are projecting all their frustration, anger or even hate they have with black culture - what ever if it is justified or not, on BLM. Maybe I am wrong, I just feel that a movement can be 'missused' by a lot of people, not just the one that are inside that movement but also from those that fight it. I mean you can't denny that BLM makes a nice 'target' to dump all the frustration at it, for the same reason that a lot of 'leftists' right now blame Trump and his supporters for everything that is wrong, what ever if it's true or not. That's simply how things goes, once you have some kind of enemy or figure, it becomes easier to attack something because people have a common ground now.

Also, BLM is not in the same ballpark like the KKK.
 
Tiny Tim said:
No, this post was more or less answering to another post that said that there were no incidents of unprovoked killings. I replied that you can easily find some on youtube ( and not just black folks either, your police seems to be killing people way too easily), meaning that in my opinion unless you're biased or aren't searching at all, you can easily see that there's a problem even with a random browsing (combined with the fact that people are protesting, probably with some reason, as well as america's history of racism against blacks that cannot logically have vanished in just a few decades). There weren't any statistics up for debate at the time so i wasn't disregarding any based on youtube videos.

To the stastitic that was posted later by mr fish, i replied with an article using other statistics.
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I don't think so, nor am I foolish enough to believe that isolated incidents of police misconduct and/or brutality, in a country composed of 300+ million people, is in any way indicative of a rampant problem that extends to other police departments.

We're in a less racist society than we were 10-20 years ago. I'm convinced that the belying issue of classism is becoming far more apparent, and the MMS is dialing in more and more on racism / hate crimes in order to distract people from the real issues. Randomly browsing for examples of Police violence/misconduct is essentially just feeding your confirmation bias.

MutantScalper said:
I think the American continents are pretty freaky. You going to come over here and tell me I can't think like that? Good luck.
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Freaky in what way?
 
Crni Vuk said:
I just feel that a lot of people are projecting all their frustration, anger or even hate they have with black culture - what ever if it is justified or not, on BLM.
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It reciprocal though, if I'm a black dude and see a video of one of my peers getting shot down by a cop, that's going to become the lightning rod for every perceived injustice I've experienced too.

I'm not sure that looters have any political motivation either though, that's just opportunism. It's not an expression much more than that.

I really think the KKK as a political force in 2017 is being way overblown, because they are the perfect boogie man. It probably delights them to no end to be considered so influential, when in reality they are just a bunch of (insert caricatured stereotype of a southerner here).

MutantScalper said:
I think the American continents are pretty freaky. You going to come over here and tell me I can't think like that? Good luck.
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Nah, I don't want to embarrass you in front of your boyfriend.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
I'm not sure that looters have any political motivation either though, that's just opportunism. It's not an expression much more than that.
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But one that isn't hard to understand, if you have a bit of empathy, doesn't mean that this is a justification of course. Criminals are criminals and will always stays criminals. But it's really not difficult to understand that people which have been screwed for half their life, become somewhat estranged from the society they blame for their issues, and often they hit those they 'think' is responsible, not those that are really responsible.

They are, people after all. Of course, there are also people in those crowds that just want to make some buck or fuck shit up for no reason, so much is for sure, the sociopaths and psychopaths among the groups, but they are usually the minority. At the bottom, we humans are pretty emotional and pretty irrational and particularly as a crowd. And a riot is always a very extreme form of expression, a collective form of frustration if you want so, where everything comes together. I mean it's not like white people don't riot either. Just for different reasons. At least here in Germany.



Or the shit they do on large soccer games ... of course, no one would get the idea to call that a 'riot' but it definetly gets pretty close.
 
It's a pity, because in most cases they are trashing their own neighborhoods, some even locally owned small business. It perpetuates a vicious cycle. Who's going to invest capital to improve neighborhoods when they burn down the CVS?
 
Its interesting as well when the same theory is applied to housing.

When people or investment moves away, it is racism. When people and investment come in, its GENTRIFICATION.
 
BigGuyCIA said:
I don't think so, nor am I foolish enough to believe that isolated incidents of police misconduct and/or brutality, in a country composed of 300+ million people, is in any way indicative of a rampant problem that extends to other police departments.

We're in a less racist society than we were 10-20 years ago. I'm convinced that the belying issue of classism is becoming far more apparent, and the MMS is dialing in more and more on racism / hate crimes in order to distract people from the real issues. Randomly browsing for examples of Police violence/misconduct is essentially just feeding your confirmation bias.
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Well, fair points and i agree with some but for one thing, i don't think the incidents of police brutality in the usa are that isolated. Maybe it has to do with the fact that citizens have firearms, but from stuff i've read and seen online i've come to the conclusion that the american police is much more likely to shoot people than in europe for example. Most importantly, the people seem to be accustomed to the idea of police killing and often justify it.
Again, this is all outside perspective but sometimes being on the outside can help see things more clearly.

About racism, i agree it has deteriorated significantly. But i'm also positive it still exists. Heck, Trump would never have been voted president if racism had vanished. And although things have gotten better, i don't think we should let our guard down, because things are still bad for minorities and could become worse. This is why i think movents like BLM are important, and that the good they bring matters more than whatever harm ( rioting etc ) in the long run.


About browsing youtube videos with police brutality, the things is you can see the greater picture that way. That's because a single video of a police officer killing someone unprovoked and getting away with it, is proof that there's corruption. Otherwise he'd be jailed, just like anyone else would have if they killed someone on camera. The fact that there are debates about it in the comment section, in which many people defend the killers, also proves my other point, that many people in the usa aren't used to the idea that no matter what the person did, if the cop is not in immediate danger he does not have any right to kill him.



Crni Vuk said:
But one that isn't hard to understand, if you have a bit of empathy, doesn't mean that this is a justification of course. Criminals are criminals and will always stays criminals. But it's really not difficult to understand that people which have been screwed for half their life, become somewhat estranged from the society they blame for their issues, and often they hit those they 'think' is responsible, not those that are really responsible.
.
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My thoughts exactly
 
DarkCorp said:
Its interesting as well when the same theory is applied to housing.

When people or investment moves away, it is racism. When people and investment come in, its GENTRIFICATION.
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Whatever white people do, it's wrong. Because structures.
 
I just watched a documentary named '13th' which is, as it's description states 'An in-depth look at the prison system in the United States and how it reveals the nation's history of racial inequality.'

Racial inequality? Now, fair enough they were (at points) talking about 30-40-50-60 years ago, which is nothing more than fair. The prison systems were NOT equal, and black folks went to prison for nothing.

Now, here is what really angered me more than anything:

It's love for BLM. I mean the documentary literally shows a bunch of rioters, destroying as they walk, screaming gods know what, and well, doing what BLM does best: being unreasonable.

Now, they said that 'BLM is not about (I can't remember his name, but he is black and got shot by cops) but about something bigger. What is the bigger? I don't know if he got shot unfair, or he actually was a danger, but that doesn't matter here. It's one cop. ONE. (probs a few more, but nothing big in percentage)

Another thing they did, is Donald J. Trump talking about 'the better times' in this situation they make is seem like it's about blacks (which i'm 99% certain it's not. I don't think Donald has said anything racist). And they then showed sweet Clinton who is already doing a lot for the blacks. (I need to say that I do not like Trump, but I neither like spreading something that isn't true to create a race war)

So this went from racial inequality in the 60's to election propaganda, and why BLM is the greatest thing since me.

And it all ended with the fine 'more blacks get in prison than whites' which is the solution to what? They didn't even come with a solution. They just blamed it on the federal system, which is fair, but maybe it's not ALL the justice systems fault. Maybe there is a problem with these 'poor' communities that need to be fixed.
 
therealyesman said:
Maybe there is a problem with these 'poor' communities that need to be fixed.
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Yes, I think many people will agree with that.
But how do you explain this to people that have seen from democrats to republicans promising them to fixing this 'shit' for decades, while globalisation and the opening of the domestic job market to the global market, has pushed their jobs from well payed, to mediocre, to low wages, while banks receive bailouts over night and wall street managers bonuses in the margin of billions. All of that while workers can't support their families from a single job anymore and any serious reform is talked down with 'no money, lulz! Go privatise your shit, yo!', and ending up with a worse system, unless you have the money to eventually get a better company that offers you water without 'lead'.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Yes, I think many people will agree with that.
But how do you explain this to people that have seen from democrats to republicans promising them to fixing this 'shit' for decades, while globalisation has pushed their jobs from well payed, to mediocre, to low wages, while banks receive bail outs and wall street managers bonuses in the margin of billions while workers can't support their families from one job.
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Not really my point. I'm not saying poor people are bad and should feel bad, but I feel like that the problem is there. The government has been a pisstake for many years now, and race has nothing to do with it.
 
Race does have something to do with it, although I think it's less than what the IdPols want everyone to believe.
 
@therealyesman Depends, prejudices definetly exist in the US in PARTICULAR(!) against the poor and the jobless. Don't say it doesn't, you would be either lieing to your self or us. Of course the portion of the nation that is blatantly racist to the point where they want to see all black people burn or something, is just a small minority, probably less than 10%. But this isn't a black-or-white scenario where you draw a line, between racism and prejudices, they often go hand in hand, where people mix and match arguments. People are very diverse and complex as individuals, they don't wear uniforms so you could easily identify everyone. Mind you, I am not calling someone 'evil' here. But you can not denny that there is this large idea in the US that for example 'poor' people kinda deserve what they get, and wealth is associated with success.
 
Crni Vuk said:
@therealyesman Depends, prejudices definetly exist in the US in PARTICULAR(!) against the poor and the jobless of America, don't say it doesn't, you would be either lieing to your self or us. Of course the portion of the nation that is blatantly racist, is just a small minority, but this isn't a black-or-white scenario where you draw a line, between racism and prejudices, they often go hand in hand, where people mix and match arguments. People are very diverse and complex as individuals. Mind you, I am not calling someone 'evil' here. But you can not denny that there is this large idea in the US that 'poor' people kinda deserve what they get, and wealth is associated with success.
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I haven't said that at all. I believe that poor people should have better opportunities, but this isn't about race or anything. It's about a shitty system and PEOPLE suffering. This documentary only showed the black communities were poor, even though lots of whites also are.

Poor isn't a race, neither is wealthy. They are different classes, but they have zero to do with gender or race. That's my point.
 
And I say, it depends about what we're talking about. The south? The north? Politics? Jobs? Again, I am with you if you say that it plays a very small role, considering the progress society has made, but I still does play a role. Remember, racial segreation happend when? Up to the 1960s. A lot of people that experienced it are still alive, and if I remember correctly there have been some bars with the sign 'blacks not allowed' up to the 1980s even. Those kind of views don't dissapear over night. In germany it took like 2(!)generations to get rid of the Nazis after 1945. And I am talking about judges, lawyers, police officers and the like. Again, America isn't a racist nation in my opinion, but there are still racists even in the government and politics and other places.
 
Crni Vuk said:
And I say, it depends about what we're talking about. The south? The north? Politics? Jobs? Again, I am with you if you say that it plays a very small role, considering the progress society has made, but I still does play a role. Remember, racial segreation happend when? Up to the 1960s. A lot of people that experienced it are still alive, and if I remember correctly there have been some bars with the sign 'blacks not allowed' up to the 1980s even. Those kind of views don't dissapear over night. In germany it took like 2(!)generations to get rid of the Nazis after 1945. And I am talking about judges, lawyers, police officers and the like. Again, America isn't a racist nation in my opinion, but there are still racists even in the government and politics and other places.
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No doubts about that. Yet there a discrimination against all kinds of people, and thankfully they are a great minority. It's not something that we have to worry about in the big picture, but it still exists. I agree with you, there are all kinds of government officials with racists intentions, but it's the minority. We cannot fix the segregation problem if black and whites have to fight all the time.
 
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