CT Phipps' review of Fallout 4

I don't think that was in doubt, some of us just expected the Institute to be more active and powerful than is shown in Fallout 4.
'Scuse me?
They have synthrillas. And food machines that don't make food. And rogue assaultrons they let loose 1 floor under them. And spent >100 years developing something West-Tek made in ~1 year. And if that wasn't enough plz get reference they also have made brand new laser weapons inferior to 210 year old variants.

They are pretty fucking powerful and Sugarbombed would agree with me.
 
Don't be stupid.

That's a jibe, not a compliment to the Institute's writing. It's pretty obviously one too. :)

Nope, it's not very far down. You can get there by going through a secret access tunnel in a sewer, not a particularly deep sewer.

The game is all about there's no way to get to the Institute save hijacking a teleportation beam. It also requires Liberty Prime's nuclear arsenal to get the BoS down there so it seems to be not just a case of getting shovels.

Unless you know of some other appearance of the Institute the only source you're using is Fallout 4. If Fallout 4 clearly shows you they act overtly (as you point out, with large scale settlements and kidnappings) you can't turn around and say they work from the shadows.

They're also said to work from the shadows and be a myth. Your speech opens with, "For years, some of you have suspected the Institute to still exist." It's another irritation of mine with the writing.
Given that Deathclaws evolved from lizards, it seems unlikely they'd want to migrate to a colder climate.

There's no snow during Christmas, which you can experience in-game and the climate remains identical. Apparently, there's a nuclear summer going on. Besides, the Death Claws living the Glowing Sea versus out in the Commonwealth with the exception of Witchcraft museum.

Do you think of this as an example of good writing, due to your personal experience with ineffective scholarly institutions which I've seen you relate to the Institute several times, or as an example of generally bad writing and likely a sign of conflicting rewrites?

Okay, this is a complicated question to answer. I think the Institute is very badly written as is but they could have been very subservive and funnily done if they had gone for something off-kilter from expectations. In places, they seem to have done this but I can't tell if this is meant to be how we're supposed to perceive the Institute or if it's just a lucky mistake that I have seen this kind of thing in real life.

The game *IS* clear the Institute isn't meant to be a bunch of Nazi Mad Scientists or cackling supervillains. One thing they did well with the Institute is when you go visit it, they make it clear the Institute isn't an organization, it is a CITY or civilization. That means a diversity of opinions, large numbers of innocents, and a history which means a change of leadership as well as reversal of previous actions.

I appreciate when organizations, let alone civilizations, are portrayed with a variety of ups and downs. To take one of the groups I like in Skyrim as an example, there's the Companions. Forget the element that they're a bunch of werewolves, there's also things like their historical ties to Skyrim, the fact some people like being werewolves, some people don't, and the fact they have a rivalry with an existing other organization.

One of the best ideas in the game is the Institute not actually being responsible for all of that much on the surface world. You have the terminals which reveal Synths didn't break up the Commonwealth government and that the Synth Revelation where one unloaded on a bunch of innocents was actually an accident. The moral ambiguity of the Institute would come from the fact they employ sentient beings as slaves and even then you had members of the Institute arguing for their rights or willing to be persuaded.

The problem with this is the game also dumps all of this ambiguity and has Kellog involved in a large scale massacre of towns (which destroys any of his moral ambiguity) plus the creation and release of Super Mutants. That, particularly is confusing because there's no reason why they WOULD release Super Mutants into the wild other than to be assholes

Even so, it could make the Institute a deeper and more interesting character if we knew, exactly, who is the dickbag behind all of these atrocities and his reasoning. To use an example everyone loves, the Children of the Cathedral are a bunch of charitable good guys like the Followers of the Apocalypse but their leadership in Morpheus is evil even without the Master's whole scam to turn everyone into Super Mutants.

The game implies that the atrocities of the Institute are the work of Shaun and a handful of cronies like Virgil and the head of the Synth Retention Bureau. Certainly, Doctor Madison Li has no idea that in the room next door there's a bunch of Menegele-esque experiments being done on wastelanders just like her. Note: You can't actually show her what's in the room and drive her against the Institute. Also, the average citizens praise you for saving the surfacers by defeating the Synth Raider so they don't know about the fact they're kidnapping people to torture and turn into Super Mutants either.

This could have been a very interesting angle as the Institute isn't evil but SHAUN is evil. However, you don't get the option of confronting Shaun about the atrocities he's authorized for Kellog to do or for the Super Mutant Project. Certainly, this seems like a PRETTY BIG HOLE in the writing and I can't help but wonder if it's because multiple writers took a stab at the Institute and that whatever actual depth I'm seeing in the Institute is actually due to multiple writers having contradictory views of the Institute.

FYI, my experience in academia justifies the stupidity of Synth Gorillas if nothing else because I have seen much much worse expensive projects with much bigger wastes of money.
 
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CTPhipps does the DOS review of Fallout 4

[snip]

I've played FO4 for some hours, but ...

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A short review of Fallout's other factions for those interested.

The Brotherhood of Steel

I'm of the opinion this game really only has two factions in it. There's the Brotherhood of Steel and there's the Institute. If you restrict the Brotherhood of Steel and Institute to being the NCR and Caesar's Legion of the Commonwealth then the game actually has some interesting questions about morality as well as the future of the Commonwealth.

The Brotherhood of Steel as reinvisioned in Fallout 4 is actually interesting to me as we have Arthur Maxson taking the absolute worst elements of both the Lost Hills Brotherhood then combining them with the worst of Elder Lyon's "White Paladin's Burden." I mentioned in an essay on my blog that Elder Lyons is kind of an imperialist asshole.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/is-elder-lyons-a-sneering-imperialist.207331/#post-4184619

Notably, despite writing the essay referenced a couple of years ago, all of my predictions about Fallout 4 and the Brotherhood of Steel came true. I like the focus on their racism, Imperliasm, and cult of personality elements. However, I think they go too far and not far enough in some respects.

For example, they don't outright state they intend to conquer the Commonwealth. I think a lot of players would be interested in a direct statement of annexation because that issue works well as deciding the BOS would provide genuine order to the region at the cost of freedom as well as any hope of democracy. Likewise, I think genocide is an easy out for villains, especially when Hancock says, "Cleansing" with the assumption he expected them to murder intelligent ghouls as well as Feral ones.

Take a look at their racism.

 
I would have made it a 1,000 caps. If they had, though, it would have resulted in a lot of players taking him up on the offer.
What's the problem in that ? The game was advertised as "you get to be whoever you want". What if I want to endorse child slavery, instead of just hating newspapers ?

Raider culture as established in Nuka World shows that Raiders very much do have a basic desire for money as well as other needs being met. Food is precious in the post-apocalypse world but caps themselves are a major source of need. The Capital Wasteland Raiders actually appeared to be killing to survive if all those corpses hung around and "Iganua on a Stick" was actually Strange Meat as in Fallout 1. Here, it seems these individuals are bandits in the Jesse James and Old West sense.
I didn't play Nuka World, so I'll trust you on that. Jesse James' example though, the guy was mad because of the secession war he had lost. The whole political background justifies the presence of such bandits : people who wouldn't admit the defeat, people who lost their homes, people who were promised glory and were deceived, cannot get back to their families because of the marshals waiting for them there, people who are so broke they can't even pay attention etc.
In Fallout 4's case however, there is no such context that would justify a raiding system. The war's wounds are two centuries old. There hasn't been a recent event that would cause social disorder (a plague, a war, whatever) There's nothing left to raid. The targets are either too poor or too rich to be good targets anymore.

As the Master pointed out, the superior results for dipping in FEV come from doing so with unradiated Wastelanders like those who come from Vaults. The experimental subjects of the Institutes are all wastelanders who grew up in the Glowing Sea storm subjected Commonwealth. In other words, they're abyssal candidates for Super mutantdom and it's no surprise they're all as dumb as Harry. Of course, Virgil is no Richard Grey either and the fact he came up with a retrovirus which reverses FEV mutation but didn't figure out you need pure DNA to make Super Mutants who aren't as dumb as Strong never occurred to him.
The Master didn't have access to vaults citizen, and yet, Vault City pocket guide for travelers clearly states that Broken Hills is made of hundreds of mutants. And from all we see, they are all sociable, they formed families, accepted private businesses, operate a mine and obey the rule of law. Marcus, the Lieutenant and Gamorrhin were all mutants from the Unity, and the three of them are very smart.
Secondly, the Master already made two dippings with vault citizen. One with himself, another with a vault dweller named Talius. Neither of these dippings produced super mutants. A third dipping made Harold -not a super mutant either- but the Master is probably unaware of this one.
Basically, I don't think that the "smart super mutants require vault citizen" idea is absolute. Fallout 1 and 2 show that the Master already had hundreds of smart super mutants before he could get a grip on an intact vault. True, we encounter the idiotic grunts, but guess who they are : door watchers at Necropolis. Nothing hints that they are representative of the "master race" the Master intends to create, since the only people from the army we meet are Marcus and the Lieutenant. Aka, the strongest and the most eloquent NPCs.

Vault 111 is, unfortunately, pretty much as useful a Vault as Vault City's in that it's best used as a storage area. It's a tomb of a bunch of extremely specific frozen corpses with no remaining supplies or equipment for growing food, water, and other vital Vault material.
It's safe, secure, it has an intact door that no explosive could open, and it's shielded. No risks of radiation, the electricity is still running after two centuries and from what we see, the whole machinery is intact. Computers could serve as educational elements for the new generation etc. Clean up the corpses, and you've got a base that could protect any settlement. You could grow food with ultraviolet lighting, use the water purifier etc.
Funny when Preston says "hell, maybe we'll even have some electricity" when there's a functional base running with a fusion reactor one minute away, and yet, you are building makeshift aerial turbines to light on TVs which don't work.

I'd be interested if you think there's a better place for him to hide.
Easy. If I had to fix Fallout 4's script, Virgil wouldn't be in the commonwealth anymore. Travelled to Ronto or another faction. First of all, it would hint that there are functional societies around the commonwealth, societies which accept super mutants as regular citizen, and rescue them as war refugees who fled the Capital Wasteland. It would give shades of grey to the super mutant situation.
Secondly, you would have to lure Virgil out of his safespot, basically like in Witcher 3 for the man who can change his face (always forget his name, sorry). You don't find him, you make something big to get his attention from far away. For example, distress signals because of escaped test subjects, carrying a specific kind of plague, roaming free. Or something else Virgil worked on, I don't know. You'd have to work hard, reach radio towers, elaborate a scenario etc.
And he won't show up before a while. And when he does, he'll send the children of atom to speak on his behalf, because he doesn't want to expose himself too early.
Then only, you could speak to him directly.

Elder Lyons did an investigation of the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel and didn't find anything of them while remaining in radio contact with the Western Brotherhood of Steel until they went silent. Until proven otherwise, they're either dead or simply want nothing to do with their brothers.
Radio contact would require functional antennas every 40 miles from the west coast to the east. Even powerful factions like the NCR or Caesar's Legion wouldn't have enough men to keep such networks working. Radio waves are basically radiations, and radiations travel in a straight line... but the earth is curved. And the longer the distance, the greater the curve. Radio contact is simply not possible.
Underground cables is a functional way of keeping contact, true, but the same goes. They are 200 years old, took nuclear warheads and weren't repaired. Unless you can dedicate hundreds of engineers all over the continent, they don't work anymore.
Then, there are satellites. True. But if the brotherhood had access to satellite communications, hell, the midwest brotherhood could have contacted HQ right away. Would have taken them a month to find and repair a communication tower.
And they're not dead. Caesar mentions that they have scribes east of Colorado.

It could also mean the Brotherhood of Steel surrendered or came to truce. The problem with Fallout, as much as I love the games, is they tend to confuse victory and genocide. Are we really going to assume the Brotherhood is going to fight to the last squire?
Well, they are few, they are zealots and they have waged war against the NCR for years from their bunkers, not hesitating to committ terrorist attacks on civilian towns. If they wanted to surrender or make a truce, they had the opportunity and didn't take it.

The Brotherhood of Steel has some flexibility in its doctrines. Not much but some. In the case of Elder Lyons, it took an extremely large amount of crappy leadership and Codex-breaking behavior to get the Outcasts to rebel and even then the Elders at Lost Hills didn't remove him from power.
Not that much, really. He ignored the main objective of his mission to focus on the protection of civilians. As far as we know, the outcasts clearly say that once they'll find a way to contact the elders, they'll probably sentence him to death for high treason. As far as we know, they are probably right, for Lyons did commit high treason on every level.
"Boss, we found Liberty Prime, but instead of fixing it, Lyons decided to dedicate all our forces to protect a DJ and a machine that nobody needs, for the sake of peasants who don't even live there. He lost dozens of good knights doing so, boss, and now he's waging war against the Enclave to decide who will press the button first. Oh, and he says he's gonna educate the young Maxson real good, boss ;)"

The situation for the Outcasts wasn't exactly working out very well for them. They failed to gain the Operation: Anchorage cache, they were being hunted by the Regulators, Elder Lyons successfully confiscated the Enclave's treasure trove, and they were pouring over junk in their base. The Outcasts rejoining probably happened as soon as Lost Hills appointed Maxson Elder.
But then again, how could Lost Hills appoint anyone at this point?

I reviewed that story and Curie says the panacea requires ingredients which are now extinct. Hence why only one dose of Mole Rat cure.
It's a luck that the Environmental Protection Agency exists in Fallout's lore and used to have bases with every single plant known to man.

Take a look at their racism.
With the given context, hardly racism. That's the same reason why the parallel between the mutants and the jewish people in the Xmen movie never fails to make me cringe. Jewish people couldn't manipulate the laws of physics, shoot lasers with their eyes, run at 1/10 of the speed of light (you realize that if Quicksilver falls, he'd provoke something like a nuclear explosion?), manipulate the mind of presidents, have a machine that can kill every single citizen on earth, train child soldiers, go through walls and they didn't have a fight with world destructors every year. In this context, the people have every reason to be afraid of mutants, and the parallel with the innocent, human, regular jewish people simply makes no sense.

Same goes for Ghouls. Hard to apply a current definition of racism in this situation. For all the BoS knows, Ghouls are rotting corpses with no future, who instead of socializing, lurked in sewers while eating the flesh of their fallen comrades. They carry radiations in lethal doses while lurking around ground water and the only sociable ones they may have heard of committed a mass slaughter of civilians in their own homes before taking it over, and imitating the previous owners (the tenpenny tower). For all they know, ghouls are the creatures from "the descent" and hell, it's kind of hard to argue with that.
That has nothing to do with the racism we know of, where you don't like someone because he has a different skin color. Here, they don't like them because all they know of them is, indeed, pure monstruosity and horror.

Same goes for all kinds of popular stories which love making parallels between oppressed minorities and fictional minorities. Harry Potter wizards constantly bitch about how "humans would be afraid of them" etc, but in reality, humanity would have every reason to be suspicious of them. Guys are waging a civil war in the middle of England, have a medieval inquisition thing going in the middle of today's society, they use child soldiers, their bad education created a noseless hitler, they condemn children to become either cool, nerds, racists or hufflepuffs before they've grown pubic hair and then, they don't teach them history, mathematics or anything. That's maybe why they don't know about the real world's problem, which they could easily fix, like climate change or deforestation. OF COURSE people would be afraid of them. Given the context, that wouldn't be racism, that would be common sense.
Drawing a parallel between the suspicion towards them, and the one towards homosexual or ethnical minorities has always bothered me. It just doesn't work.
 
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What's the problem in that ? The game was advertised as "you get to be whoever you want". What if I want to endorse child slavery, instead of just hating newspapers ?

Yeah, you're correct, it would have been better to have been offered a decent price.

I didn't play Nuka World, so I'll trust you on that. Jesse James' example though, the guy was mad because of the secession war he had lost. The whole political background justifies the presence of such bandits : people who wouldn't admit the defeat, people who lost their homes, people who were promised glory and were deceived, cannot get back to their families because of the marshals waiting for them there, people who are so broke they can't even pay attention etc.

In Fallout 4's case however, there is no such context that would justify a raiding system. The war's wounds are two centuries old. There hasn't been a recent event that would cause social disorder (a plague, a war, whatever) There's nothing left to raid. The targets are either too poor or too rich to be good targets anymore.

Raiderism is more like warlordism which goes on in many parts of the world where the central government is weak. Frankly, "too poor" is a relative term given there's plenty of successful farms in the region. The best example from Nuka World is depicted by Gage's backstory which I'll summarize for you. Gage mentions that Raiderism is self-perpetuating.

People are victimized constantly by Raiders in terms of being extorted for protection money and tribute so, eventually, people decide to become Raiders themselves because they're sick of it. We see it in the main game when at the Albernathy Farm, the son of the farmer decides he'd rather be Forged than abused by Forged.

It helps in the Commonwealth there's no central government to tax and create a standing defense force. Libertalia shows the people actually leaving the Minutemen to starve post-Quincy in order to benefit themselves, which results in many of them turning Raider.

Which is actually fairly accurate as HBO's Rome had a Centurion state, "Armies rarely starve the way peasants do."

The Master didn't have access to vaults citizen, and yet, Vault City pocket guide for travelers clearly states that Broken Hills is made of hundreds of mutants. And from all we see, they are all sociable, they formed families, accepted private businesses, operate a mine and obey the rule of law. Marcus, the Lieutenant and Gamorrhin were all mutants from the Unity, and the three of them are very smart.
Secondly, the Master already made two dippings with vault citizen. One with himself, another with a vault dweller named Talius. Neither of these dippings produced super mutants. A third dipping made Harold -not a super mutant either- but the Master is probably unaware of this one.
Basically, I don't think that the "smart super mutants require vault citizen" idea is absolute. Fallout 1 and 2 show that the Master already had hundreds of smart super mutants before he could get a grip on an intact vault. True, we encounter the idiotic grunts, but guess who they are : door watchers at Necropolis. Nothing hints that they are representative of the "master race" the Master intends to create, since the only people from the army we meet are Marcus and the Lieutenant. Aka, the strongest and the most eloquent NPCs.

The vaults were a good deal more successful in the original games with the population of the Boneyard descended from the Los Angeles Display Vault. Shady Sands has also produced numerous breakaway groups and if they were caraveners, would also be there to test as potential Super Mutant sources given the kidnappings could differentiate between the two.

I'm not saying that Super Mutants should be stupid. Quite the opposite. Just saying the Super Mutants of the Institute and Capital Wasteland have a potential reason for being different. I do think the transformation of them into habitual cannibals is ridiculous, though.

It's safe, secure, it has an intact door that no explosive could open, and it's shielded. No risks of radiation, the electricity is still running after two centuries and from what we see, the whole machinery is intact. Computers could serve as educational elements for the new generation etc. Clean up the corpses, and you've got a base that could protect any settlement. You could grow food with ultraviolet lighting, use the water purifier etc.
Funny when Preston says "hell, maybe we'll even have some electricity" when there's a functional base running with a fusion reactor one minute away, and yet, you are building makeshift aerial turbines to light on TVs which don't work.

A decent enough point, albeit, the Minutemen seem to be ungodly capable carpenters given they erect very quick modular housing with decent amounts of supplies if provided tools. The Settlement System isn't inaccurate either since plenty of refugee housing can and has been erected in about the same time. I will say however constructs the wooden shacks, though should be fired given their extensive holes.

Easy. If I had to fix Fallout 4's script, Virgil wouldn't be in the commonwealth anymore. Travelled to Ronto or another faction. First of all, it would hint that there are functional societies around the commonwealth, societies which accept super mutants as regular citizen, and rescue them as war refugees who fled the Capital Wasteland. It would give shades of grey to the super mutant situation.

Perhaps, though I think of the Glowing Sea as one of the best creations of Fallout 4.

Radio contact would require functional antennas every 40 miles from the west coast to the east. Even powerful factions like the NCR or Caesar's Legion wouldn't have enough men to keep such networks working. Radio waves are basically radiations, and radiations travel in a straight line... but the earth is curved. And the longer the distance, the greater the curve. Radio contact is simply not possible.

The Brotherhood of Steel having continuous contact with their two chapters is an established part of the Bethesda timeline, however. The Broken Hills Elders, for example, left Elder Lyons in charge of the Washington chapter even though they also deliberately decided to no longer send him any support.

From the Fallout wiki:

The Californian corridors of Lost Hills erupted in rumor and speculation. Some claimed Owyn Lyons had "gone native", putting the needs of the people of D.C. above those of the Brotherhood itself; others saw him as a Brotherhood Elder finally exhibiting the selfless behavior that should serve as a model for the entire order. Caught in the middle, the ruling Elders made the only decision they could; they would still recognize Elder Lyons as a leader of the Brotherhood of Steel, and the Citadel as their D.C. headquarters. But all support from the West Coast was thereby cut off. If Lyons wanted to pursue his own agenda on the East Coast, he would have to do it alone.

Admittedly, contact becomes much easier to believe once the East Coast BoS has access to Vertibirds.

From Fallout 4's terminals:

As the years passed, and Arthur Maxson grew, so too did his accomplishments. At age 12, while on a training project, he killed two Raiders and saved the squad that was supposed to be escorting him. At age 13, he single-handedly killed a Deathclaw (and gained the large facial scar he still has to this day). But it was his victory at age 15, over the Super Mutant "Shephard" who was attempting to re-organize the Capital Wasteland's Super Mutants, that elevated him to hero-like status. When word of this feat reached the Elders back on the West Coast, they knew the time had come... Maxson was ready. Ready to lead and, more importantly, to reunite the fragmented Brotherhood of Steel forces on the East Coast.


Well, they are few, they are zealots and they have waged war against the NCR for years from their bunkers, not hesitating to committ terrorist attacks on civilian towns. If they wanted to surrender or make a truce, they had the opportunity and didn't take it.

The Imperial Japanese eventually surrendered under similar terms. We have the Mojave Chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel to illustrate that there are Western Elders who can and do come to reasonable terms with NCR versus annihilation.

Not that much, really. He ignored the main objective of his mission to focus on the protection of civilians. As far as we know, the outcasts clearly say that once they'll find a way to contact the elders, they'll probably sentence him to death for high treason. As far as we know, they are probably right, for Lyons did commit high treason on every level.

As stated, they merely reprimanded him by removing all support from his mission.

But then again, how could Lost Hills appoint anyone at this point?

As the terminals state, they have regained communication capacity.

Admittedly, the BOS have one-upped the Enclave since they couldn't communicate across America.

It's a luck that the Environmental Protection Agency exists in Fallout's lore and used to have bases with every single plant known to man.

Hopefully, those locations are intact and Curie can reach them.

Same goes for Ghouls. Hard to apply a current definition of racism in this situation. For all the BoS knows, Ghouls are rotting corpses with no future, who instead of socializing, lurked in sewers while eating the flesh of their fallen comrades. They carry radiations in lethal doses while lurking around ground water and the only sociable ones they may have heard of committed a mass slaughter of civilians in their own homes before taking it over, and imitating the previous owners (the tenpenny tower). For all they know, ghouls are the creatures from "the descent" and hell, it's kind of hard to argue with that.

Ghouls have existed for the better part of 200 years and are an established part of society. They are immune to radiation, sources of pre-war knowledge, and the odds of going Feral is a slow degenerative process which is far less likely than human beings want to murder you. Generally, they are the nicest people in the Fallout center and it warps the narrative to treat them as dangerous.

Tenpenny Tower, for example, was because Roy was an asshole, not because he's an existential evil.

There's also the in-universe and sensible theory Feral Ghouls are created from large amounts of continuous exposure to radiation. Which would mean that ghouls are only violent because of a sickness which regular humans can catch (as they become ghouls from that amount of exposure).

Ghouls aren't undead just....crispy mutants.

That has nothing to do with the racism we know of, where you don't like someone because he has a different skin color. Here, they don't like them because all they know of them is, indeed, pure monstruosity and horror.

Which, like most racism (I live in Kentucky) is a sign they're grossly ignorant.
 
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