Fallout 1 or Fallout New Vegas?

Well Fallout New Vegas is more post-post apocalyptic as the region has recovered enough for there to be nations again along with government/military hierarchies, and bureaucracy.

In Fallout 1 the world was sort of the transition point from post apocalyptic to post-post apocalyptic.
Mostly independent villages with a few city states.
 
I love first person games, and especially shooters... but I will never accept a numbered Fallout game done in that style; that's just not Fallout. New Vegas was a pleasant FO3 spin-off; FO3 was crap... aside from art design.

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*So of course Fallout always wins hands down when not compared to an isometric TB PA RPG.
 
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Whilst I think the isometric perspective is much better in enabling your character to be physically shaped by your stats and certainly does allow the game to much easier replicate a pen and paper tabletop, I don't think the perspective is what defines Fallout.

Also, when it comes to narrative roleplay. Freedom of character, player agency, choice and concequence. New Vegas is a much better RPG than 1 or 2. Just sayin'
 
AlphaPromethean said:
Freedom of character, player agency, choice and concequence. New Vegas is a much better RPG than 1 or 2. Just sayin'
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You're saying that as if freedom of character, player agency, and C&C are of lesser quality in 1&2. In fact, I'd say because of its GURPS-like system, 1&2 as RPGs are in the scale far beyond what New Vegas can achieve with its limited FPP-TPP format, in tandem of other very restricting mechanics such as lockpicking/hacking minigames.
 
Black Angel said:
You're saying that as if freedom of character, player agency, and C&C are of lesser quality in 1&2. In fact, I'd say because of its GURPS-like system, 1&2 as RPGs are in the scale far beyond what New Vegas can achieve with its limited FPP-TPP format, in tandem of other very restricting mechanics such as lockpicking/hacking minigames.
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I'm in agreement that New Vegas is limited in its character diversity due to being an FPS. As I literally said on the previous page of this thread using the example of the tabletop Fallout Followers of the Apocalypse character being impossible to roleplay in NV.

What I mean is that in terms of being able to narratively shape your character, i.e dialogue, player motivation, decision making, concequences to your decisions and player agency within the story, NV is stronger than 1 and 2. It goes without saying that 1 and 2 aren't poor or even mediocre in that aspect, but New Vegas is a better roleplaying game from that aspect, anyway. In the same fashion that, judging from what I gathered of all the design documents, it seems Van Buren would have had similarly better narrative agency/choice than 1 and 2 before it, but would have also had the benefit of being an isometric game with better crunch-representation.
 
AlphaPromethean said:
Also, when it comes to narrative roleplay. Freedom of character, player agency, choice and consequence. New Vegas is a much better RPG than 1 or 2. Just sayin'
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That's a thing I love about New vegas. One issue that I have with other fallout games is that no matter what character you make, you have a clear background. (Fallout 1,3 and "4"- start as Vault Dweller, 2-Descendant of Fallout 1 protagonist, FNV- the protagonist doesn't really have a clear background aside from being a courier who got shot in the head allowing you to create a background of your own.)
 
AlphaPromethean said:
What I mean is that in terms of being able to narratively shape your character, i.e dialogue, player motivation, decision making, concequences to your decisions and player agency within the story, NV is stronger than 1 and 2. It goes without saying that 1 and 2 aren't poor or even mediocre in that aspect, but New Vegas is a better roleplaying game from that aspect, anyway. In the same fashion that, judging from what I gathered of all the design documents, it seems Van Buren would have had similarly better narrative agency/choice than 1 and 2 before it, but would have also had the benefit of being an isometric game with better crunch-representation.
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I do agree that from narrative aspect and even quests designs, New Vegas is much better than 1&2. However, player agency in regards to narrative and quests designs can only go as far as its underlying system and gameplay mechanics can allow. So while New Vegas's narrative aspects and quests designs are more nuanced when it comes to player agency and C&C, the amount of possibilities can't compare to 1&2's system.
1&2's flaws in this regards is that they didn't utilize their own system to its fullest, which is what 1.5 and Nevada TC mods did. In comparison, because of its very limiting system, even with modding New Vegas could barely achieve the heights its predecessors reached.

JKRDU(AKA Junyoung) said:
That's a thing I love about New vegas. One issue that I have with other fallout games is that no matter what character you make, you have a clear background. (Fallout 1,3 and "4"- start as Vault Dweller, 2-Descendant of Fallout 1 protagonist, FNV- the protagonist doesn't really have a clear background aside from being a courier who got shot in the head allowing you to create a background of your own.)
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How is being a random vault dweller and being a random descendant of a vault dweller be any 'clearer' than being a random courier who happened to carry the Platinum Chip?
 
I think there's also something to be said for the value of being able to experience the world in first person and explore it in the depth that NV allows you to, as well. It's a shame that it apparently seems difficult if not impossible to marry the tabletop crunch of the isometric games with the detail and more visceral experience of walking the Wasteland in your character's boots.

Also to play devil's advocate on the background question, whilst I think 1 and 2 do a fine job of providing clear enough character background for a variety of character types (Despite what disingenuous fucks saying that "Guy from Vault 13" is on par with Fallout 4's protagonist, Nate) I would argue that NV provides a marginally even cleaner slate. In Vegas, my character could be a ranch-worker from Sac-Town who killed his abusive parents, spent twenty years travelling the Wasteland getting into scraps and adventures with his sidekicks, only to get his slate wiped clean with a bullet to the head or he could be someone raised in an isolationist desert-cult out in Tonopah, Nevada that was raised in a strange commune and knew nothing of the outside world until the Desert Rangers came along and saved him from the cult. Just as random examples, you can't really have that kind of background variety in 1/2.

Also whilst you can invent justifications otherwise, I would argue that the motivations for the player's adventures in 1/2 are at the very least baseline altruistic in nature. Whereas New Vegas has much more apathetic reasons for going after Benny (Completing the courier job/fulfilling your contract, revenge, curiosity etc) and are in themselves a more blank form for you to fill out in terms of what is driving your character to New Vegas, whereas with 1/2 it is "Save my people." Not a knock against the Water Chip or GECK because I think they are great overarching goals, I just think Vegas marginally wins out on that front.
 
What I'm saying is that in Fallout 1 and 2, you can't create your character's background based on what you want your character to be. Instead, you will always be a Vault Dweller/ Descendant of that Vault Dweller who was born and raised in the Vault 13/ Arroyo.

In New Vegas, you're a courier who got shot in the head while delivering the platinum chip, but you can still set a background for your character because your character is not a vault dweller whose background is just a vault dweller maybe with some minor background. For example, my character can be a random wastelander who survived through the wasteland, or you can be some asshole who ditched a woman after having a relationship with her (If you have lady killer perk while talking to the Lonesome Drifter).

I'm not saying Fallout 1 and 2 did a horrible job of creating a background for your character. I just think Fallout NV did a better job at that.
 
JKRDU(AKA Junyoung) said:
What I'm saying is that in Fallout 1 and 2, you can't create your character's background based on what you want your character to be. Instead, you will always be a Vault Dweller/ Descendant of that Vault Dweller who was born and raised in the Vault 13/ Arroyo.

In New Vegas, you're a courier who got shot in the head while delivering the platinum chip, but you can still set a background for your character because your character is not a vault dweller whose background is just a vault dweller maybe with some minor background. For example, my character can be a random wastelander who survived through the wasteland, or you can be some asshole who ditched a woman after having a relationship with her (If you have lady killer perk while talking to the Lonesome Drifter).

I'm not saying Fallout 1 and 2 did a horrible job of creating a background for your character. I just think Fallout NV did a better job at that.
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I still don't see any difference between being a vault dweller who were born and raised in Vault 13 and being some random courier from wherever in the wasteland. You can still decide whether you want to be some silver-tongued sharpshooter who's good with guns or a dumb brute who solve everything with nothing but their fists.

If we want to quantify how much details was put into the background of the player character in each game:

Fallout 1
  1. A vault dweller
  2. Born and raised in Vault 13
Fallout 2
  1. A tribal
  2. Descendant of the Vault Dweller
  3. Born and raised in Arroyo
Fallout: New Vegas
  1. A Courier who happened to carry the Platinum Chip
And yet, all of them has the exact same strength when it comes to the gameplay that comes next: you still have the opportunity to define the characters based on their stats, skills, and perks. I think Fallout 1&2 are better in this regard because their system were better made and designed to play as a proper RPG. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that thanks to its size and despite of being more detailed on PC's background, Fallout 2 actually allows you to better define your characters, like if you want to decide to abandon your tribal identity completely. In Fallout 1, you don't get much opportunity because the game has much tighter scope and not as much content as Fallout 2, while in New Vegas the story and narrative was deliberately made in such a way to completely steer your character away from maintaining Courier profession, and the only opportunity you have to be a courier is to deliver the Platinum Chip to Mr. House. Once that quest is done, your Courier profession is completely gone.
 
The thing I love about Fallout 1 is that it is not New Vegas. Which was just barely good at launch due to it being so buggy btw. At least I could play Fallout 1 without it crashing every couple hours or so.
 
Fallout New Vegas is to Fallout 1 what Resident Evil 4 is to Resident Evil 1.
 
The kind of thing that depends on taste? Also are we talking original, hilarious Resi 1 or remade, actually creepy Resi 1?
 
Taste? Pfft. I fart in your general direction.

Remake is a better game but regardless of the OG or the Remake it is fixed camera the way the series SHOULD be goddammit. You fucking NuFallout dorks.
 
Hey, 1 is the best, but NV was still a great game. And if it not being isometric is a dealbreaker then it’s not really about content anymore.
 
NV being a great game does not make it better than the OG. My point still stands. RE 4 is good but not a good RE game. It's more of the action nonsense that evolved into 5 and 6.

FNV is that.
 
I can understand that pov, and I respect it. But isn’t that sort of devaluing what NV was? And how it’s all the more impressive, considering the disasters that preceded it as well as those that came after?
 
No. Not unless you think being the best of a bad situation is bad.
 
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