Fallout, Lore, Aliens, Easter Eggs, Bethesda and Mothershit Zeta

[Daniel The NCR Veteran]

Is not a alien it just happen to look the exact same

Cmon lol

"lol" Shows how much you fucking care about this argument
Also, uh, happens to look the same? It's a reused model. If it was an alien they'd probably make an alien corpse. But they didn't. They didn't care about some lame-ass fucking easter egg that wasn't even the whole point of the game. Just because a game has special events doesn't mean they're canon. What, you saw the Tardis and you think Dr. Who fucked up and brought the Nuclear War? No! It's just an EASTER EGG, something made for the giggles back in Interplay.
I don't understand why you're so inept and understanding after we explain the countless IN-GAME ESTABLISHED LORE like mentat-fed subjects, West Tek experiments, Mutated dwarfs, etc. There's more IN-GAME ESTABLISHED LORE that counter-attacks your "aliens are real bcz UFO and small-alien-like body uhuhuhuhuhuu" argument, if it is an argument, considering you just "lol" around showing your "will" to make a serious argument in a forum where everyone cares about the Fallout IP. (As everyone says, you're lucky the Codex isn't putting you on a burning cross right now).
Is that all that makes a Fallout game good? Special Events? Are you really basing your entire opinion on a game because of them? Is that why people like Fallout 3? Because of randomness? Do you think a game where anything random happens everyday is a stable game? New Vegas has "Wild Wasteland" but come on, atleast it BALANCES it out! "New Vegas isn't that good because, oh look, THERE'S LESS EASTER EGGS!!!"... Are you for real right now? I'm amazed at how these Fallout 3 type of players even look at a Fallout game like this. Absolutely appaling.

 

[mannawyadden]

Woah, relax Daniel. Breathe, man. Where's your proof that the TARDIS is non canon?

Also, I don't know who or what the Codex is. You guys seem to be heavily implying that it's a nasty place full of enraged zealots with pitchforks and crucifixes. Sounds like a pretty bad place, unlike NMA.

 

[CerberusGate]

mental gymnastics

It would appear that you're the one doing mental gymnastics to justify how the corpse is an alien when the game never actually points it out or allows it to be highlighted. Plus if you say that it does not need pointing out, then it's more obvious how you're grasping at straws rather than going with more logical excuses for that corpse (i.e reused texture of a skeletal corpse etc.)

Where's your proof that the TARDIS is non canon?

Well if it is canon, the Fallout franchise will probably be trapped under a mountain of copyright suits with the parties in charge of the Doctor Who series.

But you obviously would know that./s

In all seriousness, easter eggs in Fallout are never truly canon (if not, the stuff from Fallout 2 will remove any verisimilitude from the setting).

the Codex

RPGCodex, a forum for the more intense RPG players. People like Valwin who post 'theories' like that and ignores every response like an immature child will get skinned alive there (or get adopted as the newest Bethesdard/punching bag).

 

[mannawyadden]

I don't think the owners of Doctor Who would care whether or not a "TARDIS" is part of Fallout's canon or not, because copyright infringement is copyright infringement. But you obviously would know that.

Luckily, they didn't call it a TARDIS, and the "Unusual Call Box" succeeds in making a funny little parody nod to Doctor Who while avoiding any infringement.

(Just don't let the lawyers know that the map is called TARDIS.MAP in the game files)

 

[Norzan]

The joke special encounters were pretty much made to spice things up and to be references to pop culture. My guess is that the devs thought random encounters being nothing but enemies and other mundane things would be too boring, so they made these special encounters to surprise the player. They are out of universe encounters and are not actually canon to the Fallout universe.

 

[Risewild]

Yes I read you mental gymnastics I like how when i give an explanation in handwaving it as nothing yet you come here with this over complicated thing because I caught some here with their pants down when i show the alien body in the glow.

The narrative is Zeta DLC sucks because aliens are not part of fallout something i prove here to be wrong they are part of the series since 1.

They been part or making sense in the series does not mean the Zeta DLC is good

So... Your mental gymnastics of hand-waving the Fallout universe timeline as told by the games (classic and FO3) and by their devs, the entire Vault 87 history as told ingame in FO3 and by the devs, the entire FEV lore described in the classic games and by the devs, the entire Pan Immunity Virion lore as told in the classic games and by the devs, the entire "Vaults being Enclave experiments" lore as told by the games and the devs plus the entire Enclave faction lore as told by the games (both classic and FO3) and the devs; just to show how easy it is to explain Vault 87 and how it as used to research FEV pre-war.
Is the same as me telling you that the game offers a rational explanation for the "alien looking" skeletons. A scientific log (nearby one of those skeletons) describing experiments using mentats, a substance known to alter a person's brain and make them more intelligent... While nothing in the game says it's aliens, or creature from other planets.

I also point out that ingame there is another strange skeleton and our character immediately thinks it might be the skeleton of an horned kangaroo, something we never see ingame or is ever mentioned again anywhere else, while our character never thinks "This skeleton looks a lot like an alien skeleton", or "this skeleton is alien to me" or any other chance to just hint at it being alien. All you get from examining the bones is "A collection of strange bones".

No, you're the one still using mental gymnastics, because nothing in the game tells us it's aliens, but there are plenty of stuff offering other explanations.

You're being like those people that took one look at Ata's skeleton (back in the early 2000's) and were saying it was an alien skeleton, without a doubt (and without any proof, just by what the skeleton looked like). There was even a documentary made about it called Sirius (in case anyone is interested to learn more about it). And after 15 years of actual scientific work and research, it was found out it's not an alien skeleton (surprise), but instead a child suffering from various genetic problems.

Also, the devs said easter eggs in classic Fallout games are not canon, and shouldn't be considered part of the game universe (which is what non canon means anyway).

 

[Deleted member 98605]

In the end, what do Aliens add to the story?

They're not commenting on Humanity being foolish. They're not offering any solution. They're not even taking advantage of a space-faring species kicking itself in the shin so hard it broke.

They're just...there. For some reason, snatching humans up for hundreds of years, content in doing this, and yiffing with robotic horses. To make abominations to do...something? Fight in their wars? Just fucking around with genetics for hundreds of years? Eh.

This is the real problem with Zeta. The Aliens were just something to shoot. They weren't players in the game or even a spectator. They were here for a stupid reason that could be ignored.

Holotape 17 is just the aliens getting the codes out of the Air Force guy., if even that. Maybe he resisted until they killed him, sheesh. It doesn't mean they launched. Not important IMO. Is the possibility there? Sure. But who cares. At worst it's Beth's shitty 'answer' to the 'question' of who launched first, which isn't important overall because even if the aliens somehow hacked to the ICBMs (which shouldn't be interacted with directly any other way than physically) everyone else was still so paranoid and hateful they launched in turn.

 

[mannawyadden]

They are out of universe encounters and are not actually canon to the Fallout universe.

Source? You're not going to take away my Unusual Call Box without a source, Norzan. (I actually don't want it to be canon and I've never watched Doctor Who, please provide a source)

and yiffing with robotic horses.

This was the only flaw in your post, the rest was great. I refuse to imagine what you just described. My own interpretation was that the Giddyup Buttercups were part of an invasion plan that never panned out, after seeing this:

 

[Norzan]

Source? You're not going to take away my Unusual Call Box without a source, Norzan. (I actually don't want it to be canon and I've never watched Doctor Who, please provide a source)

Can't find a source but the devs have said that these encounters are not canon.

 

[mannawyadden]

Can't find a source

 

[Norzan]

Kind of hard to find a source of that when the game came out over 20 years ago. The best source i can find is that New Vegas mocks Bethesda for this by making aliens a Wild Wasteland event. Wild Wasteland events are completely non-canon and the fact that some of the devs that worked on the first two games also worked in New Vegas should be proof enough that the alien encounter in Fallout 1 is not canon.

And if they were canon, they affect nothing. They are corpses when you find them and the fact there's no more sightings of these things, it probably means they are long gone, either from the planet or dead. And the issue here is that the ambiguity is gone. Mothership Zeta made the ambiguity disappear and this is one of the major failings of this shitty DLC.

 

[mannawyadden]

And if they were canon, they affect nothing.
...
And the issue here is that the ambiguity is gone. Mothership Zeta made the ambiguity disappear and this is one of the major failings of this shitty DLC.

100% agree

 

[Norzan]

I wanna make clear what i mean with ambiguity being gone. In the Fallouts before 3 there were references like the joke special encounter (even though it's not canon) and items like the physic nullifier, the bio med gel and so on. It made people wonder if aliens were actually a thing or if it was just some new type of mutant or government shenanigans. This was the ambiguity of the whole thing and people were fine with this, for the most part.


Then Fallout 3 pretty much shot this ambiguity in the head. It was gone. Aliens are fully canon to the franchise and this is what angered some people. The speculation and the ambiguity is what made this, but Mothership Zeta destroyed both. Sometimes not knowing what something is better than knowing. It leaves the mistery in the air.

 

[R.Graves]

it's technically a possibile that the "alien" in FO3 is actually a highly intelligent mutant frog with a huge brain that wears a special environment suit to keep its amphibian body hydrated when away from water. And it uses prototype military technology it found in a secret underwater base.

 

[mannawyadden]

I wanna make clear what i mean with ambiguity being gone.

I understood, you explained it well.

R.Graves, admit it. You actually like my mutant frog in a hydration suit idea.

But like Norzan just said, Zeta took our frog dreams away. Before the DLC, there was a whopping 0.001% chance that they actually were frogs, but now it's a miserable 0%.

 

[R.Graves]

pointed this out years ago but also the design of the aliens, granted its the most generic possible desgn but it still seems to be outright ripping off destroy all humans.

bethesda alien:

destroy all humans alien:

lol at the reflection in his eyes looking like fo3.


anyways look! who ever was doing the art for that cover remembered the prewar inflation. it costs 29 dollars!

oh but woops its got the real canon alien on the cover along with their canonical name!

pre war aliens confirmed?

of course didn't you know? EVERYTHING is pre war because development? lol that's not what fallout is. fallout is about stagnation!

 

[Cobra Commander]

You know, if you pick TES as an example, Bethesda can have it all there.

They cut out acrobatics (the most fun skill in the game, without discussion), they cut out spells crafting and schools of magic, armor/weapon condition, less diseases, vampirism can be cured very easily etc etc etc

THEY CUT OUT THE ATRIBUTES FFS, HOW THE FUCK A MEDIEVAL RPG DOES NOT HAS ATTRIBUTES?

Along side with several others changes, like map marker, essential NPCs, change in the lore....you got the picture.

And they come out unscathed from all this. They can lie down and roll over the serie which looks like is never enough to split the fanbase.

But Fallout is different is not it? I have seen many cases of guys who loved Fallout 3, did not like NV and surprisingly did not like Fallout 4 either. I will not even mention Abortion 76.

They totally lost control of the franchise. If they are clever, Fallout 5 will be a soft reboot.

All these imbecilities like zetans or zombie ghouls will be part of a past that never happened. They have one more chance to fix things, it would be good for them if they take advantage.


But it is most likely that they will make Godzilla of Fallout 1 a canon thing =/

 

[Risewild]

Kind of hard to find a source of that when the game came out over 20 years ago. The best source i can find is that New Vegas mocks Bethesda for this by making aliens a Wild Wasteland event. Wild Wasteland events are completely non-canon and the fact that some of the devs that worked on the first two games also worked in New Vegas should be proof enough that the alien encounter in Fallout 1 is not canon.

And if they were canon, they affect nothing. They are corpses when you find them and the fact there's no more sightings of these things, it probably means they are long gone, either from the planet or dead. And the issue here is that the ambiguity is gone. Mothership Zeta made the ambiguity disappear and this is one of the major failings of this shitty DLC.

Chris Avellone assumed people knew that special encounters are not canon, that is why he even wrote on the Fallout bible this:

Granted, the Dogmeat in the F2 special encounter technically was "Dogmeat," but it was a special encounter, so he shouldn't be considered as the real Dogmeat from Fallout 1, if that makes any sense.

 

[mannawyadden]

The above quote doesn't prove that he felt special encounters never happened, only that things within the encounter are not necessarily as they may appear. That's why he says the dog you meet is not the real Dogmeat, instead of saying the dog doesn't exist.

 

[Risewild]

The above quote doesn't prove that he felt special encounters never happened, only that things within the encounter are not necessarily as they may appear. That's why he says the dog you meet is not the real Dogmeat, instead of saying the dog doesn't exist.

Not really. It's evident he says "It's the same Dogmeat. But since it's a special encounter you shouldn't consider it the real one".

Notice how he says "but it was a special encounter, so he shouldn't be considered as the real Dogmeat".
Not considering it the real one is a direct causality of it being a special encounter.

Because back then, everyone knew or assumed people knew special encounters were not canon.

EDIT: I found an interview where Avellone talks about something like this:

"IMO, if you want to build a strong franchise, you focus on the elements that make it work, and regulate all the “wouldn’t it be interesting if…” ideas that don’t fit to Special Encounters."