Fallout: New Vegas developer quotes round-up

[hagren]

I have to agree that, while the writing is generally better than in FO3, there are rather few characters I actually cared for so far, minus of course the excellently hilarious robot dialogues and the Goodsprings residents (And that only because they were so charmingly "Western").

Maybe because the NCR is a bit blandly militaristic?
Or is the tech that holds back the game?

 

[Grayswandir]

My favorites characters are the companions (Cass, Veronica, Boone and, sortof, Yesman and Victor) but they are also the ones I don't oppose with. I don't feel the same way with Mr House/caesar/ambassador_something like I felt with Lou, Master, Gizmo, Set, Lynette, the Bishops...
I guess part of it is because of the gray area thing that Obsidian tried to do, but the truth is, none of them are really that scary, or charismatic for that matter...

 

[generalissimofurioso]

What?

No DT bypass on Flamer Fuel?

You'd think the weapons known for utilizing a substance known for bypassing armor entirely would have some sort of DT negation.

I already used my GECK and fiddled with it to a point where I'm happy with it, but still.

 

[Arden]

Agreed

The Flamer should be THE weapon to bypass armor. Give it a low damage and dot but the way a flamer engulfs a target and heats it up should render Armor useless (with the possible exception of PA and those only if they arent made of metal).

 

[shift]

Like mainstream gaming and niche/indie, there's a divide between Hollywood (and Bollywood) and the rest here too. It's a lot richer in films though. Even a pop film like Stilyagi has an ending single-take shot that lasts four minutes because that's just how Russians role, while it would be daring for American cinema.
...

I believe problem is that gaming market is too small compared to film industry. In Hollywood there's a mass of simple mainstream movies, but there's still place for those "smarter" ones.

There are also filmmakers that use their fame and wealth as an opportunity to create awesome stuff without compromising (like Coen brothers) - I would compare that to Blizzard studios, that can afford similar liberty of creation and even though their game spectrum is limited... at least there's one

edit: guess i didn't read your comment properly before so what I've written is not really a response to it - which would be that the difference is, again, the bigger industry - but I also stand for what I have written above

 

[grayx]

I believe problem is that gaming market is too small compared to film industry. In Hollywood there's a mass of simple mainstream movies, but there's still place for those "smarter" ones.
...

There is truth in this, but it's only part of the problem. Ten, twenty years ago game market was even smaller, but that didn't prevent game industry to create gems like Elite, Dune, Civilization, Wizardry, Outcast, Might&Magic, Freelancer, Homeworld, to name some older ones.

Corporate culture. That's main reason for present state of industry. Even this term: "industry" is indicator how that "industry" portrait itself.

This is vast (off) topic so I'll stop here; my point is there are relations among those two industries, but fame and size aren't the main problem (tho is one of them) – it's IMO, corporate culture and, in short, absence of two B's in these kinds of systems: no balls, and no brains (I'm sure a lot will misunderstand this latter one).

 

[Ixyroth]

Mindless games/media for mindless people. It seems like a good match, considering the current state of the general population.

Throw in all the consciousness-altering subliminals in TV/games, and you've got exactly what's desired.

 

[Paul_cz]

To expand on previous question by someone else - in Fallout 1/2, player could say some really long lines of dialogues. This is not existing in NV. Is it (yet again) engine limitation? Or console one?

Part of that was a mandate from me that the writers not shove words into the player's mouth with basic dialogue responses. Generally speaking, the more the author defines what the player says, the less freedom the player has to maintain his/her character concept. I call it "emotional/intent loading". The exceptions to this are for stat-, skill-, or perk-based unlocks since they demand a higher level of specificity.

woo my question made it in! I hate his anwer though and fully agree with Crni Vuk. I want longass things to say, dammit.

 

[C2B]

I really dissagree. I always thought the long answers by inteligent characters would be a expression of role playing a "really" inteligent character.

With that I REALLY disagree. A intelligent charachter would actually have the comprehension to form sentences that aren't overly long, get to the point and are still pleasing on a literal level while beeing not overly complicated and still beeing accessible to people. (The opposite of the last sentence I just wrote. )

(And no it isn't good writing. In fact writing long ass sentences is discouraged)

That said. I agree that the sentences were a little too small with the 80 limit. A shame.


As for Sawyers answers. I agree with him halfway and really respect his opinion. He has a certain viewpoint that he expresses very well and has objectivly put much thought behind.

 

[C2B]

Also forcing people through Dialouge small-talk that is completly uninteresting is what BIOWARE does.

Edit: Ok, thats not completly true (Bioware doesn't force you that much. Though theyre problem is that it seems to be the only dialouge available). But I hate encounters when I first have to listen to what happens to his dog before I can ask real questions)

Edit: Sorry for doublepost.

 

[grayx]

I really dissagree. I always thought the long answers by inteligent characters would be a expression of role playing a "really" inteligent character.

... A intelligent charachter would actually have the comprehension to form sentences that aren't overly long, get to the point and are still pleasing on a literal level while beeing not overly complicated and still beeing accessible to people. (The opposite of the last sentence I just wrote. )
...

Sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't.

Eloquence and intelligence don't allways go hand by hand. Crni Vuk has a good point.

 

[C2B]

Eloquence and intelligence don't allways go hand by hand. Crni Vuk has a good point.

True, but I didn't actually refer to eloquent speak. You can summarize every form of speak be it on a persuasive or a factual level.

Naturally this is from person to person different and is a matter of habit. There are enough highly intelectual people out there that can't form a understandable sentence.


Though especially for someone who is adapt in linguistic skills it should be expected for him to form and summarize sentences correctly.

Short, well written sentences are the key. Not long, overly convoluted ones.



(And yes, I SUCK at englisch^^)

 

[Crni Vuk]

With that I REALLY disagree. A intelligent charachter would actually have the comprehension to form sentences that aren't overly long, get to the point and are still pleasing on a literal level while beeing not overly complicated and still beeing accessible to people. (The opposite of the last sentence I just wrote. )

And end in dialogues like we have with F3 ? No thanks.

It depends on the topic. And thats where maybe spech would come in to play. A person with the skill to be a smoth talker might bring any topic to the point. But high inteligence or Science simply means that you know a lot of stuff. With high inteligence in particular a well developed comprehension.

<center>

</center>
<center> Inteligence 9</center>
<center> Charisma 3 </center>
<center> Science 200% </center>
<center> Spech 20% </center>
Do you really expect from such a character only short setences ? The skills help you to represent the archetypes of roleplaying.


I mean it didnt really had any purpose to the game that the Choosen one had with high science or inteligence the option with a long dialogue explaining Jagged Jimmy thel functionality of a laser pistol particularly as his reply would be something like what ever. But it was simply for roleplaying a smart ass. And the same with dialogues regarding Myron. Or in the Enclave with the scientist trying to convince him about helping you. And I had to reload a few times here even with high science skills simpyl cause my spech was rather moderate. If youre going to play for example some egg head you will need here and there long scientific answers. Just be glad it wasnt like in Plansecape Tourment where you could literealy discuss with some NPCs Metaphysics or something ...

It depends on the situation and writting how long or short the answer should be.

 

[hagren]

Also forcing people through Dialouge small-talk that is completly uninteresting is what BIOWARE does.

Edit: Ok, thats not completly true (Bioware doesn't force you that much. Though theyre problem is that it seems to be the only dialouge available). But I hate encounters when I first have to listen to what happens to his dog before I can ask real questions)

Edit: Sorry for doublepost.

Well, you can skip dialogue any time you wish, and get to the point very quickly by not delving into discussions (Mainly options from the right-hand side).
plus, regardless of their shortcomings, they do write some interesting characters that stay with the player.

 

[grayx]

...
Though especially for someone who is adapt in linguistic skills it should be expected for him to form and summarize sentences correctly.

I have said already that what are you saying could be true. But more often it’s not. I’m not speaking about that, I’m just answering to your “I disagree” which shows that you (imo) didn’t understand what I think Crni Vuk meant to say.

Speech craft is just that - a craft, which can be learnt through practice and effort. Intelligence helps in a big way, but being Intelligent doesn’t automatically imply that someone is versed in that craft. Of all intelligent people that I know, it’s my experience that there is very few who can satisfy your expectations I’m not saying it’s good, I’m saying it’s real. Especially in post-apoc. world like fallout.

Short, well written sentences are the key. Not long, overly convoluted ones.

I understand what are you saying, but that also depends on situation, capable writer, and what is the writer's intent with that character.

It's not always good for the game that everyone with Int. above 7 speak "like Shakespeare".

(And yes, I SUCK at englisch^^)

p.s. Lol. As far as Crni, (and me) are on these forums - you don’t have to worry about your English.

 

[Little Robot]

Get over yourself for Christ's sake. "Those simple console peasants couldn't possibly wrap their minds around the complex and interesting dialogue that we, the PC gaming master race, can." Jesus fucking Christ.

Note: I have Fallout 3/NV on Xbox, actually. I don't have a nice computer so I can't really play modern games on it. But it's certainly true that one reason dialog is shorter, less involved, is simply because people can't read long dialog screens from the couch. Whether there's a certain "attitude," of console users, I don't know.

 

[your evil twin]

What?

No DT bypass on Flamer Fuel?

You'd think the weapons known for utilizing a substance known for bypassing armor entirely would have some sort of DT negation.

I already used my GECK and fiddled with it to a point where I'm happy with it, but still.

Bear in mind that the flamer does more damage than its stats would suggest. The big wide flame can simultaniously damage several body parts - so you are doing 16 to torso, 16 damage to head, 16 damage to an arm, all at once, and then the piddly little -2 flame damage for 5 seconds.

Also, the high rate of fire means that even if you use it against an enemy with high DT and it supposedly can't penetrate... you still do 10% damage or something when you can't penetrate, and so that's 1.6 damage to head, 1.6 damage to torso, 1.6 damage to the arm, 8 times a second, so 12.8 damage to each body part, times three up to 38.4 damage if three body parts hit. 38.4 damage against armour that the flamer "can't penetrate"!

So I think that's why they haven't given any DT reduction to flamers. The other energy weapons needed it, cause they are semi-auto weapons, and a semi-auto weapon that can't penetrate is useless. But a full-auto weapon that can't penetrate can still whittle the enemy down, and when it is hurting 3, 4 or 5 body parts at once, and also causing bonus flame damage over time, that's pretty reasonable.

 

[Bad_Karma]

I hope i don't take this out of context:

(And no it isn't good writing. In fact writing long ass sentences is discouraged)

There's a difference between long answers and long sentences.
Because a single answer can consit of whole books.

A dialog have to feel natural to some extent, and for me a dialog doesn't feel natural if i magically know names, or the dialog is implied to also happen between the lines or when i'm simply unable to choose a whole dialog but can only choose for some single 'keyword'.

And Fallout 3 and even Fallout NV, were games i thought missed some options in dialog and even otherwsie. And it's also true for an emotional connection to any of the characters.

So what i'd really liked doing when reaching the Strip would have been blasting Bennys brain out, and than simply walk away.

 

[Crni Vuk]

you adress a very fine point. I notice in many recent RPGs today that their dialogues lack authenticity. I dont know if it is the lack of writters capable of presenting believable dialogues or if they simply think their target audience cant take anything of a mature level. And when I say mature I dont mean "your moma sucks dwarfco..." but simply a conversation which feels natural. For example player characters which either talk about a subject like children or always mention for example names, the relevant topic so many times that its rediculous, like

"Thomas told you that you need a key to open the locker over there"

"So you say I should get the key from Thomas ?"

Eh ... this is fun sometimes ~ if you play a retarded character, but seriously some so called RPGs consist almost ONLY of such lines like Gothic 4 Arcadia ... Two Worlds 2 ... and a few more.

 

[C2B]

Short, well written sentences are the key. Not long, overly convoluted ones.

I understand what are you saying, but that also depends on situation, capable writer, and what is the writer's intent with that character.

And that is kinda the point of what I'm trying to say.

My main argument wasn't to insult Cri or even say that complex dialouges aren't allowed. In fact what I'm trying to say is that Sawyer does have a point.

He didn't say. Hurdur I don't want complex dialouges (like many here seem to assume). He said "focus" which is just as a valid viewpoint in writing and creating believable dialouges. (The topic is pointed on already). There are quite a few bits of more complex dialouge in New Vegas (quality is really over the place though. Nothing really bad but you realize that the lead writer isn't really on Obsidians best)

In fact I give an example of what I actually mean. And what better example could there be than the fantasy gerne: "Thou shall be something year something something something something "put actual information here" something in the lords/kings/gods something something something.

Yeah, its a pretty extreme example. In my opinion Sawyer was actually more refering to dialouges like these.

@BK Yes, but that is mostly because you have to dissect the answer into several points. This is actually done in most rpgs by giving the pc a new set of questions regarding the topic. Otherwise it would be the same as watching a half an hour Metal Gear cutscene.


Fact of the matter is though. Thats rather normal in crpgs (Even the good ones). Hell, I'm now going on dangerous territory but alone from a point of flow in dialouge writing Rpg's suck. They really do. This comes from repeating dialouges over really fragmented VO work to forced on choices regarding the dialouge.

Yes, it can be more complex but it doesn't "feel" like natural dialouge anyway.

Alpha Protocol actually was IMO revolutionary in that regard. The conversation system had its failures but I never felt multiple choice dialouge to feel so "real".