Fireside Chat: Alpha Protocol reception and New Vegas

Incognito said:
Sooo, is it wrong to rate one's experience based on other experiences?

*scratches behind ear*

*checks fingernails*

*cleans out fireplace*

Wait what?

That's not what I said, you wildly misunderstood me.
I said people in general are not capable of accurately judging recent experiences as compared to old experiences. Judging a game is fine. Reviewing a game is fine. Because you're comparing first takes with first takes. But any decent hall of fame has a few years waiting period exactly for this reason, humans aren't capable of accurately, directly comparing new and old experiences. You compare new with new and old with old. You don't have to stick to that stricture for your own top 10, obv, but then I'll mock your top 10, that's how simple it is.
 
My top list is mostly based on C&C and dialog/character writing, which is neither wine nor vinegar. So over time my list is, usually, only changed when new entries are introduced and not when I grow in/out of something.

But hey, mocking is cool, that's all we do on the web anyway.
 
That still has nothing to do with what I said.

But hey, not reading people's posts carefully is cool, that's all we do on the web anyway.
 
I'm glad we've been able to distill the nature of the internet. I'm gonna go ahead and return to not reading your posts carefully.
 
UncannyGarlic said:
(XIII, from what I've read and seen, had a good idea behind the system, they just got caught up in using old junk instead of being more creative). That said, the Final Fantasy games probably aren't Squares best.

I haven't played XIII yet (waiting on it to be $20. They ALL hit that point eventually). I did purchase FF XII when it was released, and the game was only fun up until the point where you get more than one character. After that, you just set them up to auto-cast everything. How dull... I'd have rathered had the time to choose what each character is going to do, like in the earlier FF titles. They're going too far with the ATB system. FF IV and VI are still my 2 favorites, due to the more memorable characters of FF IV (well it was my first JRPG) and the Esper system of FF VI.

As for Fallout, I played the demo several times (probably more) before the game was even released. I was never deterred at any moment during the demo or the game (aside from the full game working better in Windows, when I was more accustomed to DOS at the time).

Also, what does C&C mean? Not Command & Conquer, surely... :P
 
The real problem I have with these "top 10 lists" is that I wouldn't be able to really say that no1 is better than no 2 or even than no 10, they would all be awesome games/films/books/whatever! There may be one in there that holds a special place in my heart, but saying it's one "position" better than the next... It gets worse because no 10 would also be indistinguishable from a putative number 15. On the other hand i could say that those ranked 1 through 25, or even 25 to 50, are better than those ranked 100-150, and incredible compared to those ranked 400 to 500. Of course creating such a gigantic list would break my balls so I can't say for sure.

And it's very interesting how overrepresented newer releases get, I recently had to create list of great movies, 10 entries per genre (without ranking them) and it even happened to me! I would like to believe it has more to do with crappy meatbag memory than anything else.

Oh well, carry on with discussing Obsidian's faulty development regime.
 
Brother None said:
You don't have to stick to that stricture for your own top 10, obv, but then I'll mock your top 10, that's how simple it is.
[asbestos suit]
At least he has defined his Top 10. :P
[/asbestos suit]
 
Just played Alpha Protocol for a few hours and I didn't see any glitches or such. One weird eye things with Thorton, but that was it.

Yes, it's a little like Mass Effect 2 in layout. And yes, the stealth isn't that great (then again, no game was ever really good with stealth except maybe Thief). AI isn't really any dumber than any other AI I've ever played against.

My biggest gripe is that it seems like the PC port of Kain and Lynch where as it was solely developed for the consoles then had a shitty PC port. Everything seems to be geared towards the (piece of shit) XBox 360. Which is sad. This game was not geared towards the PC at all.
 
Brother None said:
Tagaziel said:
Sure, they might be a little wonky on the side of balance and gameplay. But guess what? If you buy Obsidian's games purely for gameplay, then you're an idiot.

If you buy a game for gameplay, you're an idiot?

Tagz, I always like how you remind people not to be whiny bitches, but sometimes you really veer into the unreasonable.

Well i cant say i entirely agree/disagree with both of you, but i do know where Tagaziel is coming from in regards to a few specific games.

Compared to Baldurs Gate, the second one more specificly, the combat in NWN and NWN 2 was not fun at all. The story side was interesting and kept the game going for me, till i got bored with the fantasy cliches.

Same exact thing with the almighty Dragon Age. I just diddnt like the combat. Going and doing quests and meeting NPCs and building my character into an all powerful mage kept my interest.

Same thing with Mass Effect. The combat was like something you had to endure to get back into the more interesting aspects. I play tactical simulation FPSes so any type of fantasy FPSing is just boring to me. Thank god for VATS, i use it constantly!

Bottom line, in RPGs these days, you have to more often than not put up with lame "gameplay" (mostly the combat) in order to get that RPG fix you used to get playing classic CRPGs. The dialogue, the character building, the upgrading, ect. is usually more fun (for this guy) than the "core gameplay" which is usually the combat.
 
mobucks said:
Bottom line, in RPGs these days, you have to more often than not put up with lame "gameplay" (mostly the combat) in order to get that RPG fix you used to get playing classic CRPGs.

Sigh, this is quite true. Maybe this is why my game catalog is so much heavier with older games than newer.

Are there even any newer cRPG's that aren't garbage? And does FOnline count? Haha.
 
Well, Space Rangers 2 was IMO an incredible open ended space RPG, combat was turn based, had a LOT of different things to do, from RTS minigames to text adventures to balancing race relations. It really had it all and kept me glued to my computer for a long time. It came out in 2004.

Only bad thing was a sometimes horrible english translation, beacuse the game was developed in Russia or somewhereabouts there. Also due to the open-ended nature of the game, if you took too long to do certain plot objectives, the Aliens of the game became too powerful to defeat. (probably a plus to some people)

EDIT to guy below me.

Yeah good one the Witcher for sure. And hells yeah its a newer CRPG in my book.
 
100LBSofDogmeat said:
mobucks said:
Bottom line, in RPGs these days, you have to more often than not put up with lame "gameplay" (mostly the combat) in order to get that RPG fix you used to get playing classic CRPGs.

Sigh, this is quite true. Maybe this is why my game catalog is so much heavier with older games than newer.

Are there even any newer cRPG's that aren't garbage? And does FOnline count? Haha.
I thought The Witcher was great. Gameplay wasn't really challenging but it got the work done and the atmosphere and world were amazing. But i don't know if it goes under the category of "newer cRPGs".
 
I'm on my second playthrough now, in Recruit mode, and I have this weird feeling that with time (and maybe a few patches, maybe even fan-made, though I've never ever heard of anyone doing much in the way of fan-made patches for UT3-tech games) it can grow into a cult neoclassic like VtMB is these days.

Sure, the AI acts weird, the sex scenes are tame, but the story is fun, the pop-culture references (including ones so weird for Moscow, you'd think they were randomly Googled, but THEY WORK) are enjoyable, the story's flexibility is insane, and the fact that every little complete sequence of good OR bad decisions you do gets rewarded by a punny 'perk' that gives XP or some weird bonus to skills or price drops - that tells you that Obsidian did work through a lot.

It's normal for a game of this magnitude of choice and consequences to be this glitchy on release, that thought has become default in my mind already (and was the only reason I gave FO3 enough review doubt to play it). Or have none of the people bashing AP played the unpatched Fallout 2? Has it really been this long that everyone's forgotten that it was bashed for the exact same thing every thing Obsidian ever touched was bashed for? (recycling assets, crazy glitches rendering parts of the world uncompletable, differently-polished parts of the game, etc., etc.)
Yet these days, when people (especially in this part of the world) say they like Fallout, chances are they've never even played the original game once.

This doesn't really exonerate the stealth bugs because MGS, while not being a completely serious affair, IS a very procrastinatively detailed bible on how to build a stealth game. You do remember the crazier features like "Sure, you got spotted, but if you manage to shoot the radio out of the guy's hand, he won't be able to call for backup"? AP has moments like these, sometimes (like setting people on fire can cook off their grenades, meaning that you can't actually go crazy with phosphorous shotgun shells... at least not at CLOSE range), but it also has moments like 'alarm tripped because a guy from across all the level has seen your arm sticking out from behind cover'.

But then we pause and remember that the lastest 'proper' AAA-level stealth game to get to the PC, Splinter Cell Conviction, also wasn't entirely faultless (and, in my personal creepy opinion, not even as polished as AP), and you get perspective. It's unfashionable to expect a game be faultless out-of-the-box, these aren't the --- wait, I've just realised, it ALWAYS was unfashionable to do that! Can you name at least three AAA-grade games that didn't need two or three patches just to kill the choppy framerates and fix graphical issues? And if you remember that AP isn't really AAA (and, unless I've bonked my head too badly recently, never was intended as one)?

The game is fun, it's got memorable characters (most people would probably automagically think of Heck, but I'd rather think of Sis, fetish-fuel, whee!), and while it falls into the same logical trap as Mass Effect did with the 'sure, when you think you're choosing a kind answer, you might actually be doing so... emphasis on MIGHT', it does let you make your Mike Thorton anything from a bumbling rookie to a vicious misogynistic bastard with a LOT of stops in-between. And every variation will have an impact on the hows and whos of killins for every level with more than a simple "situation A/situation B" choice most of the time (the American Embassy is pretty much the only completely A-or-B situation in the entire game). It achieves what was promised, as far as I'm concerned, so yeah, I'm gonna keep on enjoying it, and probably replaying it every once in a while once the years have gone by too.

N.B. For clarity's sake, though, I suppose I should mention that I still think that the best non-stealthy rogue-operative themed TPS evar (as well as the best non-sci-fi TPS evar) is kill.switch, that shovelware Renderware-tech Splinter Cell wannabe. Because IT IS FUN, and that's what really matters.
 
Reconite said:
The IGN review is in, 6.3.

The guy hardly even mentions the C&C and replay value.

And, uhm, that's a surprise how?
Also, not to smash Alpha Protocol, since I still haven't played it (damn mail!), but.. if the game is not enjoyable to you, why would you feel compelled to play it again just to see the story change a bit?
I'm almost wondering if Obsidian shouldn't have went the Heavy Rain route. :lol:
 
Reconite said:
The IGN review is in, 6.3.
It will probably been seen as a game classic in a few years …sometimes peoples initial reactions are misguided. But to be honest I don’t care what people think regarding the computer games I chose to play - (of course I’m interested in listening to people’s opinions)…but it’s what I think when I’m actually playing the game that matters and not IGN, because I simply don’t trust them or their like.
 
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