First Fo3 release date posted

Well, I think ingame cutscenes are good for less special events. Like a camera sweep when you enter a city for the first time, or some sort of special event.

Or take a random encounter. In Fallout you'd just be thrown into a situation, sometimes surrounded by raiders, rad scorpions or Mutants.
Might be an idea to use a camera sweep that pulls out to pseudo-isometric overhead view to "introduce" a random encounter.

Rendered cutscenes are cool and ought to be used in a few places, but many small ingame cutscenes might be an alternative to not having any cutscene at all in many cases.
 
In a third person game the models are not designed for close-ups. That's why the characters in dialogues in NWN look shitty, same goes especially for RTS games with such cutscenes.

The graphical quality of prerendered cutscenes will always be better than the quality of in-game cutscenes. Even if Fallout had used a 3D engine, watching [spoiler] the cathedral explode or the vats self-destruct [/spoiler] would have looked a lot less satisfying had it been done with in-game graphics.
Claiming that games can have photorealistic graphics on the average player's computer is bullshit and will not come true for quite some time.
Some people cannot afford being a commerce whore and buying new hardware every few months just because the present day game producers seem to think the existence of a new graphics card would mean they'd have to make it the minimum requirement to play their games in an even slightly entertaining way (heck -- C&C Generals is a prime example for sloppy programming, the graphics are far below what I've seen in other games and the game runs a lot slower nevertheless).

Prerendered cutscenes and talking heads are an elemental part of the atmosphere. Changing that would do no good. Westwood learned from their mistake of not putting any video briefings into C&C Generals and put news videos into their expansion pack -- the game got a lot better with that.

Sorry if my tone seemed a bit harsh. My wrist is killing me and crappy 3D in-game cutscenes and cheap "cinematic" effects (which usually are applied by level designers, not the guys who'd otherwise do the prerendered cutscenes and know their share about making interesting cinematics) have pissed me off for quite some time now -- a good exception is StarCraft (and WarCraft II if my memory serves me right) where scripted cut-scenes were done with in-game graphics during the game and a prerendered sequence would be shown at the end/beginning of every odd mission.
 
Well, I think Legacy of Kain: Defiance is a good example of how to do it. There were real rendered cutscenes for really special occasions, but there were lots of ingame cutscenes for minor events like an ambush.

Do you have some specific examples of "crappy 3D in-game cutscenes and cheap 'cinematic' effects" because I can't quite recall one just now?
 
a good exception is StarCraft (and WarCraft II if my memory serves me right) where scripted cut-scenes were done with in-game graphics during the game and a prerendered sequence would be shown at the end/beginning of every odd mission.

These didn't have any camera cuts, however.
 
IMissLark said:
a good exception is StarCraft (and WarCraft II if my memory serves me right) where scripted cut-scenes were done with in-game graphics during the game and a prerendered sequence would be shown at the end/beginning of every odd mission.

These didn't have any camera cuts, however.

Of course not. They were 2D.
Also that is a good thing. Better have no camera cuts at all than random camera effects put in by a level designer who knows less about making films than a blind AOL script kiddy on crack.

You can compare these to the scripted cut-scenes in FO and FO2. Especially in Fallout 2. Vic meeting his daughter, the Enclave encounter, the game was full of that kind of stuff. Give me floating text over "cinematic effects" anyday.
The resolution / polycount of characters in such games is way too low to make them look good in close-ups and increasing the polycount just to have prettier cutscenes is retarded. The solution would be to make models for the game and for the cutscenes, but then there's not really any reason NOT to prerender the cutscenes.
 
You're talking about ME. I tend to be quite pissy when something ticks me off.
 
A pity you don't argue your point but go off on a tangent instigated by a tiny line with little to no relevance to the discussion, not backing up your claims in any way or refuting (or even aknowledging) the point that ingame cutscenes can be done well.



*Thanks for deleting my post while requiring me to log in again, FFS.*
 
Ashmo said:
Give me floating text over "cinematic effects" anyday.
I find those kind of "plot" devices just as annoying as cutscenes.
Generally both are done pretty poorly, but the only reason to have cutscenes is so the publisher can put pretty pictures on the back of the box.
 
I am not denying that ingame cutscenes *could* be done well, I'm merely saying they usually aren't simply because most level designers are not the same guys who'd be doing the prerendered cinematics and simply because most (if not all) engines on the market today are not capable of providing a decent graphical quality in realtime rendered close-up cut-scenes.
In other words: I have yet to see an in-game cutscene that is as satisfactory as a good pre-rendered cinematic.

A problem I haven't mentioned before is that 3d models like 2d sprites only have a limited set of animations and these are usually optimized for a certain viewing distance. That means you are stuck with the same animations characters have throughout the game for these sequences, unless you add another animation, which would mean additional work for a single occurance.

I cannot backup my "claims" because I am mostly stating my personal opinion. I can only point out obvious examples, if that is what you want. Show me a game with decent cutscenes that don't look out of shape and prove me wrong.

You could do better in-game cut-scenes if you put people who actually know their share about camera effects behind it, but then I'd prefer seeing (more, better) prerendered cinematics rather than a lot of well-done cutscenes. Cut-scenes, like cinematics, are mostly eye-candy or plot devices. They are a spice, not a key ingredient.
However that doesn't mean you can't screw up the effect of the whole by screwing THEM up and that is what bothers me because I've seen that too often in varying degrees.

Excuse me that I have overread your former reply simply because I was in a hurry and only saw IMissLark's reply because for some reason this forum thought I had read your post before which I hadn't and therefore didn't take notice of your request for specific examples.

I would like to make clear that I see a big difference between scripted events and in-game cutscenes: the latter disable your control over your character(s) and might alter the camera placement, the former do not. I am perfectly fine and appreciate the former (especially when they are a bit subtle and not all too predictable), but I generally dislike the latter except for a few occasions (such as mission intros/extros in RTS games -- C&C Generals again being my example of choice nevertheless the low poly count of the models and the inefficiency of the engine, which is not as bad because the cutscenes usually have a lot of rapid motion, which distracts from the low graphical quality).
The least satisfying cut-scenes I have seen were those in WarCraft III, which may partially relate to my negative feelings for the game in general, but my main concern is that it was overdone and not exactly done in the best way possible either; wouldn't it have been Blizzard who somehow seem to be perfectionists when it comes to prerendered cinematics and thus spend a lot of resources on them, I suppose that more (shorter) cinematics would have been a good replacement for the (to me) less satisfying in-game cutscenes, especially cutscenes which really are no more than mission intros or extros (remember, I only liked them in Generals when they were action laden because the action distracted from the poor graphics), although I have to admit some of those cutscenes had welldone camera effects.

I also have no beef with very short cutscenes (let's say, your character control being removed while you are shown something in order to bring that something to your attention -- oftenly done so in single player FPS games, especially those with stupid jump riddles). What you described as a possibility for random encounters would be such a cutscene -- although that somehow reminds me on Final Fantasy.

Of course ingame cutscenes are better than none at all, but I don't think Fallout would be quite Fallout if it was packed full of 3D cutscenes. Scripted events maybe, but I really have a hard time imagining a Fallout with ingame cutscenes everywhere. At least with scenes longer than a few seconds.

Sidenote: My right wrist is still killing me and my left wrist is slowly joining it. I hope the stabilising elastic band helps a little. If you ever intend to participate in a series of reenactment battles, don't play dart for two hours the night before. Take my word for it, that doesn't do you any good.
At least my mood is getting better.
 
Cutscenes are neat the first time or two I play the game. After that I find myself hitting buttons to try and skip the cutscenes. They add plenty of value the first time or two through the game, but for people like me that play and replay and replay and replay a game they get annoying especially if you're forced to watch them each time. So....cutscenes.....I don't put alot of weight on them.
 
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