Isometric TBRPG or New Vegas-styled FPSRPG?

It hasn't been released yet though.
I mean, a first person game having more mods than an isometric game is an unfair comparison when the first person game has modding tools and a isometric game doesn't. Until Divinity OS 2 has been released and had like a year or two of modding we can't really make a comparison as to what game would be easier to make mods for. It also depends on the ratio of audience and accessebility(?) of the tools.
 
Turnbased RPG.

Doesn't really matter all that much to me if it is ISO or FPP. It could be purebreed ISO or top-down or opted for something similiar to Wizardry 8 or M&M 6 or perhaps even something close to Albion. Doesn't really matter as long as long as it's turnbased and the gameplay and combat are rich, varied and systems heavy.
 
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I think first person works better because you can really get into the players face and it can compliment gritty, harsh combat. Too bad enemies turn into bullet sponges too much, because fast, end-in-one-shot combat could work well with Fallout
 
I know I'm late to the conversation, but I'd prefer an isometric game with turn-based combat. If the next one must be a FPS, then I wish they would start using Cryengine.



 
FPSRPG. We already have some examples of FPS+RPGs where FPS & RPG co-exists quite nice. And Fallout's TBRPG implementation is not well to begin with, tbh. New Vegas did better it's part of the job. Not perfect but good enough.
 
0wing said:
FPSRPG. We already have some examples of FPS+RPGs where FPS & RPG co-exists quite nice. And Fallout's TBRPG implementation is not well to begin with, tbh. New Vegas did better it's part of the job. Not perfect but good enough.
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I beg to differ. With the emergence of more top down-isometric-turn based cRPGs, a new isometric Fallout is just something I personally desire nowadays, and really should work better if it were to be made in these modern time. I'm not saying TBRPG > FPSRPG, but there are many good isometric engine that's a nice contender for Fallout game, like Underrail's engine. Besides, there's still many problems from Fallout 3 that get carried to New Vegas, like shooting mechanics NOT 100% rely on character's skills , but rather player's skills (which is a problem that arises from making the game an action FPS game to begin with), and also how hacking and lockpicking also suffers from this same exact problem (note that I'm not saying they suffered from stupid ass threshold like Very Easy/Easy etc etc, but the mechanic that involve player to work on them, instead of the character doing it all by themselves based on their own skills).
 
Black Angel said:
I beg to differ.
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I beg to differ. There are tons of ways to still get player do the minigames and rely on character's skills at the same time, even F4 and Skyrim shows some. Same with shooting. I really liked how shooting mechanics was implemented in SS2, Deus Ex and VTM:Bloodlines. And your hatred minigames.
 
0wing said:
I beg to differ. There are tons of ways to still get player do the minigames and rely on character's skills at the same time, even F4 and Skyrim shows some. Same with shooting. I really liked how shooting mechanics was implemented in SS2, Deus Ex and VTM:Bloodlines. And your hatred minigames.
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Ehem, how exactly did Fallout 4 and Skyrim showed minigames allowing character's skills to come into play, aside from blocking our character from ever accessing the lock if we don't have sufficient 'skill' or perk level? I haven't played Fallout 4, but from what I've seen the lockpicking and hacking minigames are the exact same, and Skyrim? Seriously?

I haven't tried SS2, Deus Ex, and Vampire, but from the engine Bethesda used, we won't truly be able to experience full-fledged Fallout RPGs that 100% rely on character's skills, except if you know a particular FP/TPP engine that can work to make Fallout an RPG in non-isometric format?
 
Black Angel said:
Ehem, how exactly did Fallout 4 and Skyrim showed minigames allowing character's skills to come into play, aside from blocking our character from ever accessing the lock if we don't have sufficient 'skill' or perk level? I haven't played Fallout 4, but from what I've seen the lockpicking and hacking minigames are the exact same, and Skyrim? Seriously?
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The parameter defining, ahem, "sweet spot" of the lock (c) Tumblers Today perk magazine. And I said 'some'.
And what's wrong with hacking? I mean, it's 100% random anyway.
It may be tied directly to your lockpick skill. To make things less easy, make lockpick broke really easy or tie to your agility for example.
 
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0wing said:
The parameter defining, ahem, "sweet spot" of the lock (c) Tumblers Today perk magazine. And I said 'some'.
And what's wrong with hacking? I mean, it's 100% random anyway.
It may be tied directly to your lockpick skill. To make things less easy, make lockpick broke really easy or tie to your agility for example.
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Eh, I don't know about Fallout 4, but in Fallout 3/NV and Skyrim, looking for the 'sweet spot' STILL rely on player's skills. If it's done it such way, that, higher skills make the lockpick position closer to the 'sweet spot' immediately when we prompt lockpicking (this was done by a perk iirc), then okay I agree with that. But still..... I think minigames kind of limit the role-playing aspect, no matter how hard you tried to design it so that it can mostly rely on character's skills. I mean, do you have any other example of lockpicking/hacking minigames in some other FPSRPG that limit the player's involvement while still having minigames?
As for hacking, no matter how random it is, it's STILL rely on player's skill, heck it boils down to a game of guessing, instead of 100% character's skills. If you want some example of a hacking done right in an FPS format, I've seen the gameplay video for Consortium: The Tower where we just hold a button for our character to do all the hacking, so it has no minigames, but fit just right for an RPG.
 
Black Angel said:
I mean, do you have any other example of lockpicking/hacking minigames in some other FPSRPG that limit the player's involvement while still having minigames?
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Deus Ex. :razz:
The more skill you have, the less lockpicks spent.
Black Angel said:
As for hacking, no matter how random it is, it's STILL rely on player's skill, heck it boils down to a game of guessing, instead of 100% character's skills.
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Eh, not exactly. In F4 IIRC the more intelligent you are, the less words you have to choose from.
Return to Deus Ex, it's hacking is 100% skill based, which defines the time you can spend on the terminal and visualized as progress bar. In DE:HR your hacking skill directly defines what kind of security system you can turn off or reconfigure but DE:HR is not RPG so it's the last time I mention it.
 
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0wing said:
Deus Ex. :razz:
The more skill you have, the less lockpicks spent.
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Ah.... I need to try a Deus Ex game, then. With an upcoming new Deus Ex, if it turns out to be a good RPG, do you think their engine can fit a Fallout game?
 
Black Angel said:
Ah.... I need to try a Deus Ex game, then. With an upcoming new Deus Ex, if it turns out to be a good RPG, do you think their engine can fit a Fallout game?
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New? Not at all. Fallout is more wide open but Deus Ex takes place in the city areas and military bases. Old? It's Unreal Engine, grab the 4th version and do it.
Not to be rude but you are incorrect. It's still possible to make an autentic experience with Bethesda's bullshit fork of Gamebryo, even the world map:
 
0wing said:
snip
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Huh, cool. Still, I'd rather not have Gamebryo or Creation Engine to do the job. It's just, you know, has been discussed over and over again. Basically, due to the nature of the engine, there will always be someone saying, "Mods will fix it!". I'd rather see some other engine and implement that world map feature, instead of beating the dead horse here.
 
The random hacking and the lockpicking by player skill is bullshit in my opinion, should be based off character skill. I prefer Fallout and Fallout 2's style of lockpicking like how they don't hold your hand by keeping you from picking a lock higher than your skill level. I like how you can jam the lock if you don't reach the requirements for a lock.

NV and Fallout 4's hacking was tedious as was the lockpicking, I want my character's skill to be the deciding factor in whether or not my character can hack or pick a lock.

As for Deus Ex's system for hacking and lockpicking, it was still flawed and it took GMDX to put restrictions on some things since vanilla hacking was still easy. It was a decent system but not ideal.
 
I personally think a mix is best, but the mini-games should be different. Something like Oblivian's lockpick mini-game might be nice, it's much harder to brute-force, and you can also just auto-pick with your char's skill level, breaking picks if you fail.

Making it so the "sweet spot" resets after each broken pick, combined with skill-based spot size and an optional auto-pick based on skill/force lock thing could work.
 
Gods no, not isometric please. I absolutely hate luck-based gameplay.

65% chance to hit? Not bad eh?

Miss-Miss-Miss-Miss-HIT-Miss-Miss-Miss-Miss

Fuck off.
 
Immortalkickass said:
Gods no, not isometric please. I absolutely hate luck-based gameplay.

65% chance to hit? Not bad eh?

Miss-Miss-Miss-Miss-HIT-Miss-Miss-Miss-Miss

Fuck off.
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I get what ya mean m8. But... That system works best for rpgs... Then again it doesn't matter to me as long as the writing is to notch and there's some c&c.
 
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