J.E. Sawyer on guns

[Alphadrop]

They're alright I guess but the F3 plasma weapons just look like they belong in a Jules Verne novel or possibly War of the Worlds.

 

[Mordegar]

I still hope for a comeback of the M72 Gauss Rifle and it's handgun counterpart.
I think that those gauss weapons did fit into the game very well, because they had no rl counterparts.

I mean hey, they have fusion batterys, so it should not be impossible for them to power a railgun.

 

[frosty_theaussie]

I hope there's an option to drive a gold-painted Lamborghini through the Vegas strip while I duel wield P90s and crump it up in the back seat! Surely the private car collections are as relevant as what LEO/military groups have.

 

[Iozeph]

Personally, I would like to see a rifle with a revolver design that would be the big brother of the 10mm Pistol.

You might have to modify it some, but this weapon exists. Sort of. What you see below is a .410 gauge shotgun by Baikal.

Probably wouldn't be impossible to rig it for rifle or pistol ammo, though with the kinds of pressures involved I'm not sure why you'd want to risk something like that. Still an interesting piece of equipment.

 

[InTheOnlineAsbestosSuit]

^^^

Wow, someone actually made this? Wasn't the Taurus Judge ridiculous enough?

While very early on, we had revolvers, the problems are that they're finnicky and the timing of the cylinder has to be just right.

I'm a little confused here. What you say is true, in that the timing is important in revolvers. But aside from the early 1800's, pre-Sam Colt revolvers, they aren't exactly finicky: it takes a lot of abuse to get a revolver's timing screwed up, if the gun's built right from the start. Black powder revolvers would get fouled up fast after a few cylinders of shooting, sure (in my experience, after 12-18 shots a BP revolver is basically useless), but once smokeless powder came along, revolvers became vastly more reliable and were pretty much fool proof, and it wasn't until years later that semi-auto handguns came anywhere near to them in reliability. Even now, revolvers are thought of as more reliable than automatics, although both designs are so streamlined at this point that the difference is negligible.

Either way, I think both sides of this discussion are correct: it makes sense that some of the weapons in the FO universe would be ones we see today, as today we still see, use and collect guns from a hundred years ago, so feasibly in 65 years when the war allegedly would have occurred, those same guns would still be availible, as would circa-2077 weapons

 

[DocConrad]

Well, since there is a dedicated news story on J.E. Sawyer's gun knowledge, I guess this is worth sharing. Mr. Sawyer responded to a post I made on the Beth forums concerning .45-70 gov't and the TC Contender:

A Thompson-Center Contender with a short barrel, chambered in something obscene like 45-70 gov't with plus P ammo. Would make a beastly hand cannon and the reloads would look amazing.

Commercial .45-70 Gov't usually has a pretty light load (I guess to avoid blowing up olde tyme Trapdoor Springfields) but handloads can be pretty nuts. Of course, there's a decent amount of powder to burn to propel that big lump of metal, so it usually needs a longer barrel.

Can I just go ahead and say it is outrageously cool that a dev not only knows what .45-70 gov't is, but actually has extensive knowledge of it? You'd think gun knowledge of any kind would be common, considering the prevalent role firearms play in MOST games, and yet it is woefully rare that a dev have even the most basic understanding of how they work.

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1075000&st=40

 

[generalissimofurioso]

I do believe that there was a .45-70 weapon in MGS4.

Killed most enemies with one hit, provided that it hit them center mass.

But yeah, I always did appreciate the fact that Fallout 1 & 2 showed an understanding of ballistics beyond most anything else I've ever played.

I do believe that the only weapon-related thing that ever made me angrier than Fallout 3's bizarre weapon design was Rob Liefeld and his crazy firearms with redundant barrels and chunky ass parts with no logical purpose.

 

[el_jefe_of_ny]

I just want the 10mm handgun back.

but this time it should blow a hole the size of a fist in things. 10mm bullet from back in the early 80's is enormous. makes a 45 acp seem a lil weak.

 

[DocConrad]

F03 was pretty offensive. I believe they called it the "Thor" in MGS4.

 

[el_jefe_of_ny]

I do believe that there was a .45-70 weapon in MGS4.

Killed most enemies with one hit, provided that it hit them center mass.

But yeah, I always did appreciate the fact that Fallout 1 & 2 showed an understanding of ballistics beyond most anything else I've ever played.

I do believe that the only weapon-related thing that ever made me angrier than Fallout 3's bizarre weapon design was Rob Liefeld and his crazy firearms with redundant barrels and chunky ass parts with no logical purpose.

That's the 12 year old kiddie small penis/pampered child/inflated ego:

MAWR HORZ PWR!!!!

RAWR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Crni Vuk]

While very early on, we had revolvers, the problems are that they're finnicky and the timing of the cylinder has to be just right.

Got a problem with a revolver 'pistol'? Ok, the cylinder will burst or bulge, the frame will crack. Most likely you'll have an injured hand.

Got a problem with a revolver rifle? Hmz, chances are, you'll loose an eye or more.
Lever and Bolt actions are not that more complex, and a lot less likely to fail or get damaged.

yeah I agree that a bolt action rifle has the better technology particularly when you want accuracy. Even today the bolt action is seen as the most accurate mechanism for long range weapons in the hand of the infantry well and its a relatively cheap technology.

But I still think it would not be completely implausible to have a rifle with a cyclinder attached if that is everything you have available and want to make a weapon you would use that. A conversion of some sort.

 

[aenemic]

you guys worry an awful lot about the realism of guns in a game that has laser and plasma weapons. and where people can take several hits in the head with a shotgun and still be alive.

 

[Crni Vuk]

maybe its the other way and you dont worry enough ?

HERETIC! BURN HIM, BUURN HIM I SAY !!!

 

[Radman]

Wow... Guns...

Hmmmm,

Im still a little a taken aback though, what is a modern day military assault rifle doing in the Fallout Universe? Its a small niggle of mine but come on, the M1A1 is in practically EVERY modern warfare game out there, it just seems like a lack of imagination on the developers part, although it is just a minor one.

Sawyer does seem to know a fair amount about firearms, alot more then me, hell all I know is that their very dangerous weapons and when you pull the trigger they tend to go 'bang'...

Thats about it really.

 

[Aphyosis]

Its a small niggle of mine but come on, the M1A1 is in practically EVERY modern warfare game out there, it just seems like a lack of imagination on the developers part, although it is just a minor one.

You mean a M16A1 =P

M1A1 = Tank

 

[Radman]

Its a small niggle of mine but come on, the M1A1 is in practically EVERY modern warfare game out there, it just seems like a lack of imagination on the developers part, although it is just a minor one.

You mean a M16A1 =P

M1A1 = Tank

Haha

Must be, I knew it was M1 something or other...

 

[frosty_theaussie]

I do believe that there was a .45-70 weapon in MGS4.

Killed most enemies with one hit, provided that it hit them center mass.

But yeah, I always did appreciate the fact that Fallout 1 & 2 showed an understanding of ballistics beyond most anything else I've ever played.

I do believe that the only weapon-related thing that ever made me angrier than Fallout 3's bizarre weapon design was Rob Liefeld and his crazy firearms with redundant barrels and chunky ass parts with no logical purpose.

At least Rob is consistent: he shows as little understanding of human anatomy as he does the anatomy of a firearm!

 

[Ravager69]

That Johnson M1941 would be a helluva fit for New Vegas.

Gun design is an extremely important part of what made Fallout cool - it made you feel that you ARE in an alternate timeline. Copy&paste real weapons design is original and also detracts from that that special feel of the game.

 

[el_jefe_of_ny]

Yeah, I like oddball guns.

.233 pistol with a double trigger.... 10mm pistol, YKM whatever pulse pistol...

Vindicator

 

[SuAside]

I like the look of AEP7/AER9 laser weapons.

Except for the rifle having cinderblock-like ergonomics i have little against it. Still requires more worthy sights, but whatever.

You might have to modify it some, but this weapon exists. Sort of. What you see below is a .410 gauge shotgun by Baikal.

A russian gunsmith made a 12 gauge based on the same (although strengthened) design.

Probably wouldn't be impossible to rig it for rifle or pistol ammo, though with the kinds of pressures involved I'm not sure why you'd want to risk something like that. Still an interesting piece of equipment.

Revolver rifles in pistol ammo, such as .44-40 and so on were not that uncommon. It is revolver rifles with rifle or heavy shotgun ammo that are nearly unheard of. Oddballs do exist however.

I'm a little confused here. What you say is true, in that the timing is important in revolvers. But aside from the early 1800's, pre-Sam Colt revolvers, they aren't exactly finicky: it takes a lot of abuse to get a revolver's timing screwed up, if the gun's built right from the start.

Try it with rifle ammo. It becomes a bit less forgiving to small screwups and the cylinder gap becomes fairly problematic with your face so close to it.

Black powder revolvers would get fouled up fast after a few cylinders of shooting, sure (in my experience, after 12-18 shots a BP revolver is basically useless), but once smokeless powder came along, revolvers became vastly more reliable and were pretty much fool proof, and it wasn't until years later that semi-auto handguns came anywhere near to them in reliability.

If you succeed in firing 18 shots with a single BP revolver in a shootout, you're a bloody hero.
There's a reason why pretty much all outlaws were 2 or more revolvers. The reason isn't because they were firing them at the same time Hollywood style, but simply because reloading took too fucking long. The extra weight was well worth the time gained in reload.

Even now, revolvers are thought of as more reliable than automatics, although both designs are so streamlined at this point that the difference is negligible.

That is a questionable statement. While it is true for self-defense revolvers are still a good choice (afterall, they go bang when you pull the trigger and if you misfire you just pull the trigger again, cycling the cylinder), it is widely becoming accepted that modern pistols are nowadays just as reliable as revolvers.

But I still think it would not be completely implausible to have a rifle with a cyclinder attached if that is everything you have available and want to make a weapon you would use that. A conversion of some sort.

As said, revolver rifles have existed and have been fairly common for lower power cartridges. With stronger pressures, the danger becomes greater and the cylinder gap becomes problematic.

It is however mechanically possible to use a Nagant style revolver action, to minimise the escaping gas, and that way taking away one of the issues. It however turns your triggerpull to shit.

Commercial .45-70 Gov't usually has a pretty light load (I guess to avoid blowing up olde tyme Trapdoor Springfields) but handloads can be pretty nuts. Of course, there's a decent amount of powder to burn to propel that big lump of metal, so it usually needs a longer barrel.

While correct, it does also depend on the powder used and the length of the barrel. Though I agree it wouldn't be that good of a weapon for Fallout.

Regardless, it could be a formidable weapon, but I'd still chose something more moderate and autoloading.

Can I just go ahead and say it is outrageously cool that a dev not only knows what .45-70 gov't is, but actually has extensive knowledge of it? You'd think gun knowledge of any kind would be common, considering the prevalent role firearms play in MOST games, and yet it is woefully rare that a dev have even the most basic understanding of how they work.

Props to him indeed.

I never knew he was a gun enthousiast.