AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
TwinkieStabllis said:
I used "expected" as a synonim for "wanted" in this context. Though i have to say, i still had some hope when we didn't have that much information about the game.
Jeff Gardiner on aliens
- Thread starter Per
- Start date
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I used "expected" as a synonim for "wanted" in this context. Though i have to say, i still had some hope when we didn't have that much information about the game.
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
AskWazzup said:
me too. i downright refused to give up my remaining grain of hope until the screenshots with dialogue came out. but i think we all really knew deep down what was going to happen the minute Bethie was announcing the purchase of the franchise.
Heh! could you imagine Rowling writting some Sequel and Books for Dune for example? Not that that the continuation by Herberts son Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson are a lot better to begin with. But just imagine by Rowling, House Atreides tourned in to the Hogward School, Paul Potter .. Harry Atreides ? Harkonnen Voldemord ? ... Also since Potter is so known and cause its "fantasy" ... wait a min! Lord of the Rings is fantasy as well! Should not Tolkiens son get in contact with Rowling to change the books of LotR to fitt the Potter setting!? NO ! letz make a awesome movie LotR vs Harry Potter ! You know it would sooo much rock. Cause we ALL know crossovers just simply ROCK. They rock. Rule of cool! YOu cant escape it!Sander said:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE_vfiZZkAQ[/youtube]
TyloniusFunk
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Minorkos said:
This is just like in Godfather 3 when Michael decided to say "Fuck Going Legit. We're taking on the MOTHER FUCKING CATHOLIC CHURCH!" Pew Pew. Gosh. Splat. "Opus Dei? Meet my little friend Cosa Nostra." Chk-k-BOOM.
5 million people can't be wrong. (George W. Bush).
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?
It's important to bear in mind that DLC is supposed to be extra OPTIONAL content.
So far we've had:
1) Operation Anchorage, which added a mtro tunnel and some ruined buildings to wasteland, and then a big computer simulation of the battle of Anchorage, outside the normal Captial Wasteland
2) The Pitt, a slave community outside the normal Capital Wasteland
3) Broken Steel, adding new quests and new enemies to the pre-existing Captial Wasteland
4) Point Lookout, a mutant hillbilly community outside the normal Capital Wasteland
See a pattern? Apart from Broken Steel, all the DLC has been adding additional locations outside the main wasteland map, where you lose your companions and you often loose all your equipment too. They are extra optional "side missions" that are outside the normal game.
They are running out ideas for these outside games. I mean, seriously, where next could the player go? You've gone to a swamp by boat, and to Pittsburgh by train. If you want a whole big new location you'll have to wait for Fallout: Las Vegas.
So, where else can they go? Where can they put new adventures? The only place was up, in space.
Personally, I'll always consider the existance of aliens as being canon in Fallout. Godzilla's footprint or the Doctor's TARDIS leave no lasting impression on the game, but I can't think of the gun that I singlehandedly used to wipe out the Master's army to just be a silly extra joke item.
Er, sure the talking brahmins might have had descriptions when you examined them in the special encounter, but it is not like you got to carry around a talking brahmin with you in your inventory for the rest of the game, and watch it kill enemies or have conversations with them.
When people talk of easter eggs, they mean stuff like the appearence of Dopefish in varioius games (the Quake games, Sin, Descent 3, Max Payne, Anachronox...). Doesn't significantly change anything in the game, it's just a few seconds of amusemsent.
The talking brahmin and the Doctor's TARDIS and godzilla's footprint fit into those categories. The special items in those encounters (Stealth Boy etc) were standard generic game items you could also find in other locations.
By contrast, the alien encounter had its own special unique item that you could take and use anywhere, repeatedly, to kill anyone and everything. Rather than a brief joke, it's a game changer, and I can't consider a game changer to just be an easter egg.
We all know that Fallout's original developers would never have put a full blown alien invasion into Fallout 3 or Fallout 4. That isn't supposed to be what Fallout is about. But I do think it is far for Bethesda to say that the existance of aliens has been hinted at throughout the series. Fallout 1 had the special encounter, the alien blaster weapon, a weird corpse in The Glow and a random brotherhood line about aliens. Fallout 2 had Skynet's claim that he was made with alien tech, and an opportunity to buy the alien blaster from a trader. Bethesda took it a step futher by adding a crashed ship and alien blaster as a fixed map location in Fallout 3. By that point, that's a reference to aliens in all three games. Not enough to justify alien abductions and invasions and stuff, but at least enough to say "aliens are canon" rather than a mere easter egg.
It's important to bear in mind that DLC is supposed to be extra OPTIONAL content.
So far we've had:
1) Operation Anchorage, which added a mtro tunnel and some ruined buildings to wasteland, and then a big computer simulation of the battle of Anchorage, outside the normal Captial Wasteland
2) The Pitt, a slave community outside the normal Capital Wasteland
3) Broken Steel, adding new quests and new enemies to the pre-existing Captial Wasteland
4) Point Lookout, a mutant hillbilly community outside the normal Capital Wasteland
See a pattern? Apart from Broken Steel, all the DLC has been adding additional locations outside the main wasteland map, where you lose your companions and you often loose all your equipment too. They are extra optional "side missions" that are outside the normal game.
They are running out ideas for these outside games. I mean, seriously, where next could the player go? You've gone to a swamp by boat, and to Pittsburgh by train. If you want a whole big new location you'll have to wait for Fallout: Las Vegas.
So, where else can they go? Where can they put new adventures? The only place was up, in space.
Personally, I'll always consider the existance of aliens as being canon in Fallout. Godzilla's footprint or the Doctor's TARDIS leave no lasting impression on the game, but I can't think of the gun that I singlehandedly used to wipe out the Master's army to just be a silly extra joke item.
Morbus said:
Er, sure the talking brahmins might have had descriptions when you examined them in the special encounter, but it is not like you got to carry around a talking brahmin with you in your inventory for the rest of the game, and watch it kill enemies or have conversations with them.
When people talk of easter eggs, they mean stuff like the appearence of Dopefish in varioius games (the Quake games, Sin, Descent 3, Max Payne, Anachronox...). Doesn't significantly change anything in the game, it's just a few seconds of amusemsent.
The talking brahmin and the Doctor's TARDIS and godzilla's footprint fit into those categories. The special items in those encounters (Stealth Boy etc) were standard generic game items you could also find in other locations.
By contrast, the alien encounter had its own special unique item that you could take and use anywhere, repeatedly, to kill anyone and everything. Rather than a brief joke, it's a game changer, and I can't consider a game changer to just be an easter egg.
We all know that Fallout's original developers would never have put a full blown alien invasion into Fallout 3 or Fallout 4. That isn't supposed to be what Fallout is about. But I do think it is far for Bethesda to say that the existance of aliens has been hinted at throughout the series. Fallout 1 had the special encounter, the alien blaster weapon, a weird corpse in The Glow and a random brotherhood line about aliens. Fallout 2 had Skynet's claim that he was made with alien tech, and an opportunity to buy the alien blaster from a trader. Bethesda took it a step futher by adding a crashed ship and alien blaster as a fixed map location in Fallout 3. By that point, that's a reference to aliens in all three games. Not enough to justify alien abductions and invasions and stuff, but at least enough to say "aliens are canon" rather than a mere easter egg.
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?
It's as optional as the game itself.
As far as 1 and 2 goes, it's enough to say aliens are vaguely hinted at, no more, no less.
your evil twin said:
It's as optional as the game itself.
your evil twin said:
As far as 1 and 2 goes, it's enough to say aliens are vaguely hinted at, no more, no less.
The fact is that Fallout introduced aliens into the setting. Whether or not it was a random encounter is irrelevant. In the Glow, when I first when through it years ago, when I saw the skeleton with the huge head and big eye sockets (that looks EXACTLY like the skeletons around the crashed UFO), my immediate reaction was "cool they had aliens in an underground lab". Nothing wsa random about that. An alien corpse was purposely put in a holding cell in an underground lab. You can try to explain it away as a "genetic freak", but nothing in the game supports that idea, and the only thing that resembes that skeleton are the other skeletons laying around the crashed UFO.
Given that Fallout was a product of the 90's that isn't surprising considering the UFO movement was quite popular during that decade.
If the main Fallout 3 game had a huge alien sub-plot, then I might be able to understand some of the outrage, but as it is, this optional DLC pack is about as relevant as a random encounter in Fallout.
Given that Fallout was a product of the 90's that isn't surprising considering the UFO movement was quite popular during that decade.
If the main Fallout 3 game had a huge alien sub-plot, then I might be able to understand some of the outrage, but as it is, this optional DLC pack is about as relevant as a random encounter in Fallout.
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
Beelzebud said:
uh, no. it's 100% relevant. in fact that is what makes it relevant. the hidden song on a cd is not taken into account when reviewing the album proper other than possibly as an unimportant side-note. the easter eggs were meant as little jokes or fun bonuses the devs were throwing at you, nothing more.
what we have here is YET AGAIN Bethesda desperately missing the point.
Beelzebud said:
Now you're making things up.
Beelzebud said:
Except that West-Tek was where FEV was developed, but maybe that's too trifling for you.
Beelzebud said:
It's not reliable to hold up recycling of background scenery and objects in the Fallouts as hidden connections.
Beelzebud said:
That is not being contested, I believe.
Beelzebud said:
They're giving it a big alien sub-plot. Are you following this at all?
Beelzebud said:
Yes, kind of like how Throne of Bhaal adds an irrelevant random part of the Bhaalspawn saga to BG2.
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Leon said:
Er, by "killing the whole Master's army" I didn't mean it is a superweapon. You can kill the whole of the Master's army with a plasma rifle or the sniper rifle or the .223, if you so choose.
The alien blaster does not destroy game balance thanks to the fact that it has a measly range of ten hexes. The shortest range of any gun in Fallout 1, even the shotguns have better range. (The only gun with less range is the sawed-off in Fallout 2.)
The alien blaster is essentially an ENERGY sawed-off. Or a long-range flamethrower. Compare that to the next most powerful pistol, the .223, which is also devestating and it has a whopping range of 30 hexes.
You are unlikely to use it to kill every enemy due to the short range - in many cases you'd have to waste several turns moving close to the enemy, risking getting killed, like you would with a melee weapon. But if you are a player that likes to go up close and personal with enemies, and/or you are a player that likes energy weapons and finds it more fun to disintergrate enemies than snipe them with bullets, then it's the best weapon in the game.
The Vault points out "Very random damage and short range make it hard to consistently use effectively, so hope for a lot of criticals." The alien blaster is a great fun, but when you are up against Super Mutants with minguns and plasma rifles and rocket launchers it can hardly be considered a game breaker. Compare that to silly stuff like being able to grab Advanced Power Armour and plasma rifles right at the start of Fallout 2.
Erm, yeah.
You don't find Godzilla's footprint or the TARDIS in Fallout 2. You do find the alien blaster again in Fallout 2.
If you could find a bunch of Godzilla eggs full of mini godzillas in Fallout 2, or had an encoutner with Godzilla rampaging through the wasteland, it would be safe to say that Godzilla is part of the Fallout canon. Or if you encountered a Dalek in Fallout 2, it might be reasonable to consider Doctor Who canon.
If you found a scruffy coat and scarf, and when you searched it it contained a "sonic screwdriver", a very useful tool that gave you 100% lockpick and 100% repair, it would be fair to say that the Doctor is a visitor to the Fallout universe. (He has a machine that can go through space and time and parallel universes, so why not?)
And if you mean stuff like Dopefish appearing in multiple games, well Dopefish usually isn't anything more than a bit of grafitti on a wall, or a goofy-looking fish in some water, so their canonicity wouldn't be more than "some walls happen to have grafitty on them" and "you can find fish in water". If all the quake games featured a "dopefish gun" that was a useful weapon you could use to kill enemies, then it would be canon, in the same way that the shotgun or the rocket launcher is canon.
Perhaps you know of some reoccuring "easter eggs" that appear throughout a game franchise and yet are obviously not canon parts of that game's universe. Please, enlighten me.
Per said:
I too have a problem with this. I reckon that in the Fallout universe aliens do exist... hell, given that there's a thousand gazillion stars and planets out there I expect aliens exist in our own real universe. The ability to get the fancy unique alien blaster in both Fallout 1 and 2, combined with Skynet talking about alien tech, is enough to persuade me that aliens are supposed to have visited Earth in the Fallout universe. That doesn't mean I want a game about aliens invading the Fallout world!
I might enjoy the DLC anyway, simply cause I like stuff like Mars Attacks. But I'll be enjoying it as a generic retro Mars Attacks style game, not as a part of Fallout. Aliens as part of canon, fine by me, aliens as the new Enclave? Hell no!
Call it what you want, a Holding cell, small lab room, now you're just nitpicking at semantics with that.
Observing that the skeleton in the lab room looks exactly like the skeletons around the crashed UFO isn't reliable to make a connection, but assuming that the skeleton in the lab room is a 'genetic freak', based on no in-game information is?
I wasn't saying it was being contested that Fallout was a product of the 90's, I was using that to give a further example of why aliens ended up being slipped in to the Fallout games, even though they don't necessarily fit in with the 50's retro-future theme.
I guess I've just reached my peak outrage with Bethesda. They already ruined the RPG aspects of the game. After all the other garbage DLC packs they've released, I just can't really get too worked up about them anymore. At least aliens were actually in the Fallout games. They fit in better than redneck mutants, or VR simulators.
Observing that the skeleton in the lab room looks exactly like the skeletons around the crashed UFO isn't reliable to make a connection, but assuming that the skeleton in the lab room is a 'genetic freak', based on no in-game information is?
I wasn't saying it was being contested that Fallout was a product of the 90's, I was using that to give a further example of why aliens ended up being slipped in to the Fallout games, even though they don't necessarily fit in with the 50's retro-future theme.
I guess I've just reached my peak outrage with Bethesda. They already ruined the RPG aspects of the game. After all the other garbage DLC packs they've released, I just can't really get too worked up about them anymore. At least aliens were actually in the Fallout games. They fit in better than redneck mutants, or VR simulators.
Balance-breaking or not, calling an easter egg item canonical just because it appears in multiple titles is a stretch.
Looks like there's a hidden Moai in multiple Final Fantasies! There must be some Polynesians in these games! FACT.
Aliens have never been anything more than a joking part of Fallout's universe until now, and they have never fit the theme, ever.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Moaiyour evil twin said:
Looks like there's a hidden Moai in multiple Final Fantasies! There must be some Polynesians in these games! FACT.
Aliens have never been anything more than a joking part of Fallout's universe until now, and they have never fit the theme, ever.
patriot_41
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
So, let me get this straight, if you have two references, it's canon? So the next DLC could be The Lone Wanderer and the Holy Grail. Seriously, there's 2 encounters.
I don't see the point in arguing whether or not aliens exist in the FO universe. Seeing them in a lab doesn't mean jack shit, because the cold war propaganda always included aliens and it is a far more prominent theme in the game anyway. The aliens ingame are no more believable than in real life. Even in FO2 we don't have a clear, direct explanation of what they are, or even whether. AFAIC, they're just weird creatures, which live in a mine in a town full of movie references. (Unforgiven, Aliens, For a Few Dollars More etc.) and the others are just rumor-ish.
I'm still pissed about the samurai armor. I'm beginning to think, that the whole alien ship is a lame excuse just to include it.
I don't see the point in arguing whether or not aliens exist in the FO universe. Seeing them in a lab doesn't mean jack shit, because the cold war propaganda always included aliens and it is a far more prominent theme in the game anyway. The aliens ingame are no more believable than in real life. Even in FO2 we don't have a clear, direct explanation of what they are, or even whether. AFAIC, they're just weird creatures, which live in a mine in a town full of movie references. (Unforgiven, Aliens, For a Few Dollars More etc.) and the others are just rumor-ish.
I'm still pissed about the samurai armor. I'm beginning to think, that the whole alien ship is a lame excuse just to include it.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Critical hits don't care what type of weapon you're using.IMissLark said:
Fallout 2's use of the same model for a mutant experiment would suggest otherwise.Beelzebud said:
It makes the jump from non-canon special encounters and a single skeleton in the Glow to canon now being that aliens have been screwing with Earth for a long time and now decide to come back and try to destroy it 200 years after the apocalypse.Beelzebud said:
Clicking on animals too many times in the WarCraft series and maybe the StarCraft series (depends on SC2). There are a fair number of series which have reoccurring jokes (usually easter-eggs), I can't say that every one of them pops into my mind but I know I've experienced it.your evil twin said:
The game had limited resources and it recycled random civilian models as well, it doesn't mean that every unnamed NPC that looks the same is the same NPC. What exactly the skeleton is is never explained in game, Per said that it was supposed to be part of an X-Files joke but was unfinished and that sounds about right. The funky skeleton could be an alien or it could be a mutant, it is never stated.Beelzebud said:
Stanislao Moulinsky
Vault Fossil
your evil twin said:
Aliens in Silent Hill.
I guess they are the same that appear in Fallout because you can lay your hands on Alien Blasters and even a Tesla Rifle. Also, hello everyone. First post.
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
heehee. i love how this alien shite is so ridiculous new members are registering just to say "wtf'ingf?"
Hey, I can think of another.
"I am Feargus. I create myself. I take the name, I scatter it across role-playing games. A message to lead myself here."
"I am Feargus. I create myself. I take the name, I scatter it across role-playing games. A message to lead myself here."