Lakota indians declare independence from US

[xdarkyrex]

As for genocide of the Indians, have a look at this tasty tidbit of American history in the treatment of Japanese folks during the big WW2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Yeahhhh, internement is on par with genocide...

They never had a 'country' to begin with, they believed the land was to be shared by all, and as far as them deserving anything let's just do a quick calculation shall we, let's even low-ball it, let's estimate that about 3 billion gets to them a year up north here and not count welfare or anything else they're getting.

From 1492 (when the majority of the European and Spanish colonization was in full swing) to now they would have received roughly 1545 BILLION dollars (not counting monetary fluxuation however the value fluctuates based on the dollar that they receive anyways.)

Forgive me, I seem to have erred on the year, 1492 was the first discovery, 1583 was when colonization was going on, adjusting my calculations it would be around 1272 Billion dollars since then.

Wow that is a random number... way to support your argument with not even remotely educated guesses.
First off, we didn't start giving them money til the 1850's, and back then it wasn't 3 billion, it was about 50,000 a year.

from the treaty-

ARTICLE 7. In consideration of the treaty stipulations, and for the damages which have or may occur by reason thereof to the Indian nations, parties hereto, and for their maintenance and the improvement of their moral and social customs, the United States bind themselves to deliver to the said Indian nations the sum of fifty thousand dollars per annum for the term of ten years, with the right to continue the same at the discretion of the President of the United States for a period not exceeding five years thereafter, in provisions merchandise, domestic animals, and agricultural implements, in such proportions as may be deemed best adapted to their condition by the President of the United States, to be distributed in proportion to the population of the aforesaid Indian nations.

fyi, there are about 400,000 Native Americans in America.

 

[Brother None]

What guilt trip?

Aha. Ahahahahaah!

It's funny how much you two look down your nose at Mord Sith. I've rarely seen something so misguided.

This thread's a disaster area, though, it's like half the posts are trolls.

 

[Mord_Sith]

The figure has changed since then due to inflation of currency, however the value stays relatively the same, in 1850, the value of a dollar was significantly more than it is now.

Let's take your figure then 1850,

at 3 billion which is the estimated amount that is paid out regularly, that's minus about 4 billion in administration costs, or would you rather I calculate it at the 7 billion the government quotes?

471 BILLION, as the government has not paid them a dime over what they've had to they've only inflated the amount they've received based on the original amount.

If we take the 7 Billion figure that the Government touts:
1099 BILLION is spent in total including Administration but not counting any additional monies that they have available.

--EDIT--

I must make yet another adjustment, the figure was overblown on the website I pulled this off of originally, in reality the figure is about 5.6 Billion as per the Canadian Encyclopedia: http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1SEC824915

Calculation adjustments:

At 2.3 Billion dollars they would have paid out: 361.1 Billion

At the full 5.6 Billion dollars they would have paid out: 879.2 Billion

 

[xdarkyrex]

This thread's a disaster area, though, it's like half the posts are trolls.

I find your presumptiousness a bit ironic, but in any case, you are right, no one in this thread is going to see eye to eye and have a very different view on the situation.

I think that whether they succesfully 'secede' or not, we should cut off their subsidies. I would like them to succeed, but one way or another, it is true that we have been carrying them on their bacfk too long. Their welfare mindset is doing nothing but perpetuatuing poverty in the reservations.

 

[Brother None]

I find your presumptiousness a bit ironic

It's "presumptuousness", that said, what am I presuming?

but in any case, you are right, no one in this thread is going to see eye to eye and have a very different view on the situation.

That's not the problem, the problem is you don't seem to be able to disagree without resorting to calling one another either ignorant or racist.

Which I'm sure is very useful, somewhere.

I think that whether they succesfully 'secede' or not

This was never a question, they won't.

Guess where that leaves the usefulness of this thread?

 

[Mord_Sith]

I don't think I've called either of them ignorant or racist, although I'm sure I've dangerously skirted it a few times without realizing it.

As for the secession xdarkyrex, I can agree with you on that, hopefully they do succeed in becoming a self-sustaining entity, but for over a century now they've been depending on government money, it's gonna be a rocky road for them, but better for them in the end.

However reality, just like history, bites, and I don't think that America will let the fledgling country live as it is, but that is merely what I think, who knows, the government might be too busy persecuting outside enemies to be able to handle the internal problems like loosing a good chunk of 4 states.

 

[xdarkyrex]

This was never a question, they won't.

Guess where that leaves the usefulness of this thread?

I'll call and raise that one "The Lakota indians are not part of this secession, it's just an activist group".

I just read it on a press report from the Chief of one of the Sioux tribes .


It was useless before... but now it's extra useless.
I suppose we can categorise this as philosophy, eh?


Oh, also, the letter 'U' is next to the letter 'I' on the keyboard . Sorry for the typo.

I was talking about your presumptions about my 'guilt'. You're sounding a bit freudian.

 

[New Enclave]

I suppose we can categorise this as philosophy, eh?

Philosophy of what?

 

[xdarkyrex]

I suppose we can categorise this as philosophy, eh?

Philosophy of what?

Philosophy of.. uhh... historical....stuff?

 

[Silencer]

Really, with what currency, exactly? They're not a US country, so they can't use dollars,..

At least seven countries outside the US use the dollar as their official currency. And Russia.

From 1492 (when the majority of the European and Spanish colonization was in full swing) to now they would have received roughly 1545 BILLION dollars (not counting monetary fluxuation however the value fluctuates based on the dollar that they receive anyways.)

How much do you figure a country is worth, even one the size of the US?

--EDIT--

Forgive me, I seem to have erred on the year, 1492 was the first discovery, 1583 was when colonization was going on, adjusting my calculations it would be around 1272 Billion dollars since then.

Wow, and here I was, completely oblivious to the fact that North American Indians have been on welfare since 1500s. Longer than most Poles, I'd say!


Lay off the war pipe.