Mods/GECK will fix it. Nope.

[Irwin John Finster]

Literally the only thing that will hold back the modding community are people like you who are so quick to give up on it.


Sincerely, a Frontier mod developer.
http://www.falloutthefrontier.com/

Yea just wait until paid mods and $99 Deathclaw Testicles come back and then tell me who is holding back the modding community.

After all, Bethesda chose to present their content the way they chose too; we can choose to present our content the way we choose to, too.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/bethesda-plans-revisit-skyrim-paid-mods-after-fallout-4-459131
""Our belief is, 'We made the game, we made the game you're making a thing for.' So just like anything else, there is some kind of involvement that we're going to have in that," he said."

 

[Legobrick100]

Yea just wait until paid mods and $99 Deathclaw Testicles come back and then tell me who is holding back the modding community.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/bethesda-plans-revisit-skyrim-paid-mods-after-fallout-4-459131
""Our belief is, 'We made the game, we made the game you're making a thing for.' So just like anything else, there is some kind of involvement that we're going to have in that," he said."

They already confirmed Fallout 4 will not have paid mods. For both console and PC. Only Skyrim will see the return of paid mods, due to it's implementation with the Steam Workshop. (That being said, paid mods can work. They just have to do it properly. Try and experiment, find what works. Have a certain criteria that must be met for paid mods, like size, or how liked it is, or something. You know, have paid mods be ONLY mods that are big, almost DLC-like quest mods.)



And? I don't see the point of your second part, respectfully.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

(That being said, paid mods can work. They just have to do it properly.

And? I don't see the point of your second part, respectfully.

I've seen this "paid mods can work if done properly" statement a lot. It is naive to think that paid mods are about modders making money. It is about the company being paid a percentage for mods and anything modders make is simply secondary to that.

The second part strongly implies Bethesda is going to start having oversight over the modding community rather than letting it be free on its own. How is that not significant?

The only benefit I see to Bethesda taking over the modding community is possibly more security in the modding files, because the Nexus site has been hacked one too many times for me to feel totally safe using it.

Furthermore, in addition to the writing and characters being far superior in XCOM 2 (which is a disgrace because XCOM 2 isn't even supposed to be an RPG and is still more RPG than Fallout 4), yet I feel more immersed in that game than Fallout 4), XCOM 2 had Steam Workshop support pretty much the SECOND it was released. It is now late April and we still don't have the modding tools for Fallout 4. It seems pretty obvious this was done in part to sell their own paid mod DLC with Wasteland Workshop and Automatron.

And so basically now XCOM 2 has better mod support than Fallout 4, and by the time the GECK is released its quite possible a lot of people won't even be playing Fallout 4 considering 90% of the game involves MMO quests.

 

[Legobrick100]

I've seen this "paid mods can work if done properly" statement a lot. It is naive to think that paid mods are about modders making money. It is about the company being paid a percentage for mods and anything modders make is simply secondary to that.

The second part strongly implies Bethesda is going to start having oversight over the modding community rather than letting it be free on its own. How is that not significant?

The only benefit I see to Bethesda taking over the modding community is possibly more security in the modding files, because the Nexus site has been hacked one too many times for me to feel safe using it.

Furthermore, in addition to the writing and characters being far superior in XCOM 2 (which is a disgrace because XCOM 2 isn't even supposed to be an RPG, yet I feel more immersed in that game than Fallout 4), XCOM 2 had Steam Workshop support pretty much the SECOND it was released. It is now late April and we still don't have the modding tools for Fallout 4. It seems pretty obvious this was done in part to sell their own paid mod DLC with Wasteland Workshop and Automatron.

And so basically now XCOM 2 has better mod support than Fallout 4, and by the time the GECK is released its quite possible a lot of people won't even be playing Fallout 4 considering 90% of the game involves MMO quests.

So? Bethesda isn't allowed to make money too? All I'm worried about is that money goes to the right people who rightfully deserve it. Which, I unfortunately, can only leave to Bethesda to determine, due to their existence as a professional company, and their ownership of the tools, franchise, and game itself.

A little oversight isn't THAT bad. Look at Valve; they're the biggest supporters of mod developers, going so far as to allow the creators of Black Mesa, a full remake of the original Half-Life, to SELL their game at near-full price. And of course, the Steam workshop.

Not at all. It has been expressed several times that Bethesda releases a game, then lets their employees work on whatever they want. They're free to experiment, and test, and program, and create whatever they want. They then choose and agree upon the best stuff to be released as part of an update(as it was for revamped Survival mode), or as a small addon, as it was for Automatron and Wasteland Workshop, which are both also kinda meant to tide-us-over until both the GECK, and the first expansion comes out. These two are, undoubtedly, NOT the last ones we'll see.

Workshop support is entirely different from releasing a full SDK. Bethesda was undoubtedly dealing with a rather broken and unstable program to create with(because the public didn't have to see it, it was not a priority), and they've been busy ensuring the GECK is as user-friendly as it can be.



It isn't "pretty obvious". While I'll admit everything I said above is just speculation, so is what you said. You're just assuming the worst. Why? Because you're so used to companies being greedy, and stealing, and cheating? Not every company does that, nor should you ASSUME every company does that. Because frankly, you don't have proof.

All we have is what they tell us; without proof of the opposite, it is only logical to assume they are telling the truth. "innocent until proven guilty" and all that.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

All we have is what they tell us; without proof of the opposite, it is only logical to assume they are telling the truth. "innocent until proven guilty" and all that.

That is a terrifying attitude to take towards people trying to advertise and sell you something. Imagine if you did that with politicians. Good luck with that.

 

[Legobrick100]

That is a terrifying attitude to take towards people trying to advertise and sell you something. Imagine if you did that with politicians. Good luck with that.

Yeah, and? We typically have very little evidence that they have bad intentions. (And in MOST cases, they don't. They merely have intentions that don't benefit us. Gotta remember to be considerate of others.) My point is that you're assuming the worst, just for the sake of assuming the worst. How would any person live like that?

It's almost like assuming EVERYONE's a murderer when chances are, only 5 out of 100 random people are. No evidence of it, no proof, it would just be paranoia. How would you feel, being labeled a murderer, just because OTHER people were labeled as murderers?

The whole point of a politician's speech is to win over people; if everyone's going to automatically assume the worst, then what's the point? ESPECIALLY if it's a relatively new politician who has done nothing bad thus-far. Gotta give them a chance.




It's kind of like giving a homeless person money. You give it to them with the hope that they'll buy something helpful with it. If they then go out and just buy alcohol with it, that doesn't mean it's your fault. You had a justified, morally-right reason to give him that money; he chose to take advantage of it.

It does not ruin the good deed on your part, and instead places the blame on him. Even if it hurts you, you're at least hurt knowing you did the right thing. Which is FAR better than being okay, by doing the wrong thing.

 

[0wing]

• We would have to find a way of putting skills back
• We would have to redo the entire perk system
• We would have to find a way to make and add Traits again

Actually people found a way or workaround to add more skills and menus in New Vegas and traits are just perk with negative effects inside, adding new menus in Skyrim isn't any harder and there are "fix" for invertory for Fallout 4 so this is not impossible.

 

[Risewild]

Actually people found a way or workaround to add more skills and menus in New Vegas and traits are just perk with negative effects inside, adding new menus in Skyrim isn't any harder and there are "fix" for invertory for Fallout 4 so this is not impossible.

By putting skills back I don't mean just create a menu with the skills in it, I mean we also have to tie all of those skills into the main character, world and dialogue.
We have to make it so we get a specific number of skill points per level, probably associated with the Intelligence value of the main character.

We have to edit pretty much everything in the game, combat will have to be influenced by weapon skills (melee, unarmed, guns, explosives, energy weapons) not only for the main character but for every NPC and enemy too.

Chems and medicine will have to be edited to work depending on the medicine skill, dialogue will have to be edited to take into account pretty much every skill (if the Main Character talks about guns, there should be a skill check related to his/her skill value, same goes for every other skill) but in particular the speech and barter skills. Vendors will have to be edited to work depending on the barter skill, Food items will have to be edited to take into account survival skill, sneak will have to be totally reworked so it is dependent on the sneak skill, all the locks and terminals will have to be reworked to be dependent on the Lockpick and Science skills, crafting will have to be reworked to be dependent on the repair, science, survival skills. Everything in the game that requires the player to repair something will have to be dependent on the repair skill.

Perks will have to be reworked to be dependent on skills.

Skills will also have to be dependent on the SPECIAL values.

These are only a few of the things that just implementing skills into Fallout 4 would require modders to work on and it would involve editing pretty much every aspect of the game, it would take a lot of time (probably years) to be done.

Now imagine that just for skills, then having to make traits, totally overhaul the perks, totally overhaul the dialogue, probably making an "alternate start" type of mod to replace the tutorial and who knows what else needs to be edited and/or made from scratch in addition to all of that.

There is a lot of work behind the scenes that most people have no idea needs to be done even for what looks like "simple" things .

 

[0wing]

There is a lot of work behind the scenes that most people have no idea needs to be done even for what looks like "simple" things .

Tedious work but actually still if not 'simple' but definitely not 'hard'. As tedious as playing this game for reviewing purposes and writing about it.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

I've never modded before, but I'm an entitled shit sucking on a milk tit bottle. Let me educate you and get involved in a topic I have no understanding of. I'm an Idiot.

I like people like you 0wing. Clearly you have the modding know-how to determine how easy it will be to implement SKILLS into a game that was not built to have them. As you are not talking out your ass I expect this "Skills" mod to be released by you. If not then STFU.

 

[0wing]

Eventually.
And I like overreacting people. Like it's not tedious to write condition checks to needed amount points of scripted 'skills' to shit like wep. mods provided by gun nut perk. I've already had some thoughts on skills but it's more of a brute force solution.

 

[Spacemunkey]

By putting skills back I don't mean just create a menu with the skills in it, I mean we also have to tie all of those skills into the main character, world and dialogue.
We have to make it so we get a specific number of skill points per level, probably associated with the Intelligence value of the main character.

We have to edit pretty much everything in the game, combat will have to be influenced by weapon skills (melee, unarmed, guns, explosives, energy weapons) not only for the main character but for every NPC and enemy too.

Chems and medicine will have to be edited to work depending on the medicine skill, dialogue will have to be edited to take into account pretty much every skill (if the Main Character talks about guns, there should be a skill check related to his/her skill value, same goes for every other skill) but in particular the speech and barter skills. Vendors will have to be edited to work depending on the barter skill, Food items will have to be edited to take into account survival skill, sneak will have to be totally reworked so it is dependent on the sneak skill, all the locks and terminals will have to be reworked to be dependent on the Lockpick and Science skills, crafting will have to be reworked to be dependent on the repair, science, survival skills. Everything in the game that requires the player to repair something will have to be dependent on the repair skill.

Perks will have to be reworked to be dependent on skills.

Skills will also have to be dependent on the SPECIAL values.

These are only a few of the things that just implementing skills into Fallout 4 would require modders to work on and it would involve editing pretty much every aspect of the game, it would take a lot of time (probably years) to be done.

Now imagine that just for skills, then having to make traits, totally overhaul the perks, totally overhaul the dialogue, probably making an "alternate start" type of mod to replace the tutorial and who knows what else needs to be edited and/or made from scratch in addition to all of that.

There is a lot of work behind the scenes that most people have no idea needs to be done even for what looks like "simple" things .

There's no way all those scripts running in a BGS game would ever make it shit itself every 5 minutes either.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

Eventually.

Sweet. I look forward to your masterpiece. It is obvious you are a master modder. You must have been modding since Fallout 1 or Morrowind to have such skill.

And I like overreacting people.

You should either find a website that has overreacting people on it then, or learn definition of the word sarcasm.

Like it's not tedious to write condition checks to needed amount points of scripted 'skills' to shit like wep. mods provided by gun nut perk. I've already had some thoughts on skills but it's more of a brute force solution.

I'm impressed that you have a solution to overhaul the game in such an easy way. Everyone knows that complete game overhauls are very simple. Balance is a no-brainer, just need to write some conditions down right? As it is so simple, I am surprised you haven't finished this mod of yours, let alone even started it.

Did you find any roadblocks when using the beta GECK? I'd bet you can probably just write some conditions down though because adding a framework to a game is really that easy.

If you wouldn't mind terribly, I would like if you could enlighten me. What conditions would you be changing to add a framework? Dialogue? PERK system? See, I use conditions constantly in the mods I create. I guess I'm just a bad modder for not knowing how to change a condition and have it result in a fresh new framework.

 

[0wing]

learn definition of the word sarcasm.

Oh, understood, you're just posting using gamepad and spamming [SARCASTIC] option. Good day. Damn, you Fallout 4 fans are crazy people...

 

[Einhanderc7]

I have to agree with the consensus of the forums here, the amount of work required to turn Fallout 4 into a viable and "workable" Fallout title would be immense and most likely not even worth it in the long run considering the obstacles littering their path.

I'm a modder (Valve "1.5 and Source", C&C, Starcraft 1-2 and a bunch of other games I can't remember off the top of my head) and a fledgling game developer. I can say from my experience that the amount of work required to "restore" this defunct game would honestly be way to much for even a experienced modding team to complete or even stick with.

The best bet Fallout 4 has to being remodeled is if the modding community cared enough to work together and split off into small teams to work on some of the problems to later bring them all together. But the amount of planning and coordination required to facilitate such a task is not something typically found within the addles of modding history. (Basically they would need to redesign the game from the ground up)

While I would honestly love to see a talented group of dedicated individuals fix this hot pile of garbage, I honestly don't believe it will happen as the original fan base for the franchise is disintegrating and has been abused far to much.

What I do see happening is modders related to the new fan base producing mods related towards their own interests and following the path the game is currently heading.

So my suggestion is this, if you would like to see Fallout 4 restored to a legit playable fallout style title learn how to mod and work together. So far this is the only site I have encountered that remotely embodies my thoughts and opinions of the Fallout franchise. (I grew up with original Fallout titles and despise what its been turned into).

 

[0wing]

SPECIAL is only a start point. This game is not bad, it's BROKEN. It'll require mod team as large as devs team (~100 people) to rebuild and renew FO4 I must add. Though the plot is unfixable due to various plot holes you can do nothing about.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

SPECIAL is only a start point. This game is not bad, it's BROKEN. It'll require mod team as large as devs team (~100 people) to rebuild and renew FO4 I must add.

Nice 180. That's an awful lot of condition checks for ~100 person dev team. You sir are farting from your mouth and I find it quite offensive.

 

[Einhanderc7]

SPECIAL is only a start point. This game is not bad, it's BROKEN. It'll require mod team as large as devs team (~100 people) to rebuild and renew FO4 I must add.

I must disagree 0wing, the team doesn't need to be this massive wall of bodies, it just needs a compitent team of developers/modders to actually make real progress. A team of 1-5 people could easily tackle parts of the problems, the trick is just getting all those pieces to fit together correctly.

Kind of like the NV script extender ended up being used by a lot of mods in NV.

 

[0wing]

I must disagree 0wing, the team doesn't need to be this massive wall of bodies, it just needs a compitent team of developers/modders to actually make real progress. A team of 1-5 people could easily tackle parts of the problems, the trick is jsut getting all those pieces to fit together correctly.

If it's not a matter of time, yes but 1-5 is too small. But modding is a hobby, you can't just dedicate all your time to the game. And that includes the thorough test team too.

 

[Einhanderc7]

If it's not a matter of time, yes but 1-5 is too small. But modding is a hobby, you can't just dedicate all your time to the game. And that includes the thorough test team too.

I must applaud your incoherent stubbornness. I have to agree, but; modding is not restricted by deadlines and a time frame, modding is only fed and promoted by the love and enjoyment of the game. (Which this game lacks)

If you require a game to play immediately I would suggest searching for a game that could possibly assauge your need for a RPG. Good mods rarely if ever release super fast, so assuming that a team would break their metaphorical necks to produce something such as you are suggesting is hopelessly unrealistic if not fantastical.