Quakecon 2015: Fallout 4 details

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You think? I mean I don't know, all of those kick starter projects seem to give the impression as like there is still a big market for it. And hey! Not ALL new games are shit. Deus Ex Human Revolution, Assasins Creed, GTA, Dead Red Redemption and some more are really good.
 
Perks in FO4 won't be interesting. Skyrim is the best proof for that.

That's pretty much what I'd expect but I suspect drawing from previous Fallout games will throw a couple of interesting ones in there to counterbalance the complete crap ones.

If you actually look at the history behind these developers you can see the jump to consoles diluted the RPG genre.

No, you really can't. Might and Magic was consistently ported to consoles, for instance. Developers wanted to reach a broader audience so in order to have a broader appeal, they changed their games. While consoles were a part of getting access to a broader audience and thus part of the same symptom, it was not the cause. This is not unique to RPGs, it happened to a number of genres.

You mean fuck face as name for your child is not a good evolution for RPGs? What are you! An oldtimer? A purits!

Come on man, that's how you win writing awards!:V

It is because of the market and the appeal consoles have. Consoles had always the family-friendly status where the PC was always conected with nerds and adults. Of course the console has its fare share of adult and complex games. It has definitely nothing to do with the specifications of the console. You can make just as awesome games on the console as you can on the PC. But many publishers had the feeling that it was simply easier to sell a console on x-mas compared to a PC. I mean I simply can't really see something like that with PCs.

So in the end, it really all comes down to marketing.

Before tablets and phones took off, PC had the largest number of casual games for it. Companies like PopCap Games saw the untapped housewife market and started pumping out casual games with great success. Look at the success of so many Facebook games, many of those have roots in casual PC and browser games. Now consoles and PCs look to be merging, look at what Microsoft and Steam are doing.
 
I am not disagreing with you here! I do see the PC as very succesfull platform. I am talking about a marketing point of view. When it comes to the family zone the console is simple superior in marketing here. The PC has also a certain stigma on it that you won't find as much on consoles - the technical nerd. It is also much easier to play with several people using a consoles and TV. Be it with your family, on a party, just a few friends and some beer. The console is a play-and-forget station, plug 4 controllers in, get some mario cart and off you go! The PC is really more something for one person.

Wait Crni, Ass Creed a good game? Can't agree with that at all.

*Shrugs* I enjoyed Assassins Creed 1 and 2. Can't say much about the other games though. I liked the idea and concept behind it and I never expected it to be extremly deep with the story. In that sense A2 is in my opinion a very good example on how to improve as a Sequel. As it took the gameplay and instead of completely reworking everything they expanded it. So I was able to emidately pick up A2 and playing it without the need to learn everything new and still enjoy the improvements, like more moves and more choices in combat. It's a simple action game and I really don't expect more than that from it.

I also enjoyed the Arkham games a lot, even though the first game was so far the best one in my opinion particularly because it was in such a small place. I never felt like Batman was a character that works that well with open world games on the scale of a whole town. Things can get to big sometimes. But that's preference and opinion.
 
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I always welcome a good debate! I'll use Bethesda and Bioware as an example a lot since they are the trendsetters.

Before tablets and phones took off, PC had the largest number of casual games for it. Companies like PopCap Games saw the untapped housewife market and started pumping out casual games with great success. Look at the success of so many Facebook games, many of those have roots in casual PC and browser games. Now consoles and PCs look to be merging, look at what Microsoft and Steam are doing.

That doesn't change the fact that the most complicated games available are primarily for PC. That is why PC got Civilization 5 while the consoles and tablets got Civilization Revolution.

Until recently games like Wasteland 2 would have been unheard of on a console. Crusader Kings 2 would sell under 100,000 copies on consoles I wager. There are anomalies. Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall was on tablets, but it clearly shows that.

I am not disagreeing with you here! I do see the PC as very successful platform. I am talking about a marketing point of view. When it comes to the family zone the console is simply superior in marketing here. The PC has also a certain stigma on it that you won't find as much on consoles - the technical nerd. It is also much easier to play with several people using a console and TV. Be it with your family, on a party, just a few friends and some beer. The console is a play-and-forget station, plug 4 controllers in, get some Mario Kart and off you go! The PC is really more something for one person.

Crni said here what I would have said.

Look at the infamous Quest Marker as example number one of streamlined console catering. Let me be clear here: console gamers don't need shit "streamlined" to this extent. They can handle it if it is portrayed correctly. The developers let people know that dying is normal with Dark Souls and it caught on. It really comes down to marketing in a number of ways. You won't see games like Europa Universalis on PS4 anytime soon i wager.

Look at the original Dragon Age which appeared to borrow heavily from Baldur's Gate, compared to it's "streamlined" sequel Dragon Age 2.

Games like Morrowind on the Xbox actually felt like PC games. It was the transition point really. That moment was when the focus shifted. KotOR came out around the same time.



No, you really can't. Might and Magic was consistently ported to consoles, for instance. Developers wanted to reach a broader audience so in order to have a broader appeal, they changed their games. While consoles were a part of getting access to a broader audience and thus part of the same symptom, it was not the cause. This is not unique to RPGs, it happened to a number of genres.


Might and Magic only had three ports to the consoles back then. The first three I believe. That was in the generation when gamers used graph paper, read instruction manuals, and had no internet. Back when console games weren't simplified beyond recognition. Difficulty wasn't an issue back then. Actually you could argue some of it was too hard depending on what game you are talking about.



Edit: Why did I even go through all that trouble? Deus Ex is a prime example. Invisible War? Boss fights?
 
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Apologies for rubbing it in Gizmojunk, but I am damn glad I have a big box version of Fallout 1 (and 2) stand in the shelves next to my computer along with Deus Ex 1 and several other gaming classics.
A sad reminder of how much better PC gaming used to be :(

It is sad but we may have to face the facts that gaming that appealed to our type of crowd is rapidly coming to an end.
I spoke with a friend about it yesterday, he told me it would be better to let go off the past as gaming is never going to be like that again, and either accept games of today or find a new hobby.
I have one, but I was interested in this one ~when the bidding was $6. :)

I've got a few sets of the Torment 4-disc version; one Torment big box. The same for Dune 2, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Eye of the Beholder, and possibly BG2 (though I'm not sure where it is).

*Ten retail shrink-wrapped Mask of the Betrayer, but those weren't big boxed games.
 
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I have a Planescape Torment in box but sadly the manuals are all in Dutch. Not that I would resell it but that does hurt its value.

Edit; interesting to see how much Fallout 1 has become worth. Makes me wonder how much a Fallout 3 Collector's Edition is worth. (I happen to have one, along with the ugly little statue)
 
Dead Red Redemption
Rant:
I found RDR to be absolute shit really. Repetitive combat, boring travel system and an empty world. And I get it, it's a freaking desert. It's meant to be empty. It doesn't change the fact that it is a huge sandbox with fuckall to do in it as random encounters start repeating themselves way too early. And I get it, they only used a certain limited set of weapons in that time but it doesn't change the fact that the combat resorted to a bunch of cover-based shooting with a fucking win button (besides, only the repeater and the rifle were worth using. Most of the time enemies would be far enough away that shotgun's and throwables were useless as well as melee weapons and the sniper. Well, I played it on a console and snipers work like shit to me with analogue sticks). And I get it that they only used horses to get around with, but it doesn't change the fact that there is no variety and the fucking running mechanic with a horse was annoying as all hell. Constantly having to steer the horse back on the track and constantly mashing the damn run button but don't mash it too much cause then the horse throws you off.

I get it, those things are realistic and believable for their times. But it doesn't make the gameplay the slightest bit enjoyable to me. I think that a game like that would work better if it were not open world and focused more on a linear (well-written) story/narrative.

Then we have the damn "evil horse" that sucks horseshit that I couldn't get rid off until I got my "karma" back up. On that note; Fuck the god damn binary karma system.

Treasure hunting was at the end meaningless.

Minigames can fuck right off.

Collection shit can fuck right off.

Hunting is fun for a little while but then it gets repetitive and boring.

Taking Strongholds... I don't remember much of it but I remember I did it once then said "fuck this noise" and never tried it again.

But all of that could be forgiven, if the story was at least good. But it isn't. The first part is and the final part is as well but Mexico and especially the later half of the first part are just bad. Here comes Marsupial, an ex-bandit renegade who doesn't take shit from anyone and he makes sure to let everyone know that! Except that he's pussywhipped by the slightest bit of persuasion. With the guys you have to help in order for them to help you storm the stronghold in the first part? Basically go like this, first time they meet the other guy asks Marsman to help him first, quid pro quo yknowwhati'msayin'? All right, seems fair enough. Then Sir Mars comes back and goes like "so you gonna help me now?" And the other person goes "yeah, if you do this one little thing for me" and he gets aggressive and goes "that wasn't the deal mofo!" but then caves like the bitch he is and goes to do it anyway. Then he comes back a third time and go "help me right now or I'll beat the shit out of you" and the other guy goes "I'll do it! Juuuuust one more thing tho..." And Marston Esquire? He does it. That doesn't make much sense to me. This happens with tons of characters throughout the game and Le'Mars who's supposed to be such a big baddie just caves in constantly to their demands.

And when he finally gets to Mexico? Then he hears about this other guy who was in his former gang and he just flip flops between which one he's hunting for and he gets wrapped up in a revolution who's storyline feels so forced and is ultimately anti-climactic as all hell. Out of nowhere after all the false promises comes "Oh, yeah, that guy? He's over there somewhere" And you go get him real easy-like and the end. Then you get the other guy just as anti-climactically. The main story about the revolution feels uh... Like, yknow those people argumenting about how they felt disconnected from the story in FNV because they didn't care about the poker chip? Well that's how I felt about this part. I didn't care for any of the characters on either side of the revolution. I didn't care who won in the outcome and I didn't care about all of the betrayals and bullshit that was just pure fodder. The storyline I got invested in was the hunt and capture of the ex-gang members and apart from the occasional reference from Marsie Boy there was practically nothing. The writers tried to force me to care about a secondary storyline that only served to prolong the conclusion to the one I originally got invested into.

The animations are good, the character's are interesting enough, the environment is beautiful and the story has some hightlights, but ultimately I found it to be one of the most overrated pieces of trash I've ever played.

Oh and it's a Rockstar game. A game where the player character handles really clunky and "realistic" with the way he moves, runs, climbs, turns and gets up from being knocked down. I've never liked this about Rockstar games but at least GTA IV and its expansions had good stories (well, GTA IV's was just okay, but the expansions I loved), they had variety in scenery, weapons and vehicles and it had a sprawling city to fuck around in. Same about GTA Vice City and San Andreas, although there the character feels like he's trying to impersonate Sonic with the speed they can run at. Point is, it's completely subjective but I have never enjoyed this "realism" shit that Rockstar has been going for and have always loathed the sprint mashing especially. Rockstar's games get a bad start right off the bat for me because I can't stand their movement mechanics, so add on top of that that the rest of the gameplay is hollow, repetitive and tedious and then take an axe to the story as well and well, I just can't stand it.

Ironically enough the less well-received expansion "Undead Nightmare" I found to be a blast. Reason why is because the clunky movement works to increase tension with the fast zombies. Shotgun's and throwables are finally useful. The empty landscape is not so empty now as zombies may appear anywhere. The story is a joke but that's the point, they knew it and they made it a joke on purpose. It's meant to be cheesy and humorous and it striked me quite well. It also doesn't drag on for longer than it needs to. Hell even the horse-path and throw off of the player works in the gameplay's favor as a misstep can kill you. So yeah, I love Undead Nightmate, the cheesy joke expansion pack. And can't stand the actual game itself.

So I found the game to be shit.
But I'm curious, what did you like about the game?

[edit]

Then again, it was a couple of years since I last played RDR so I might be mis-remembering parts of the story/narrative structure. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

And I don't know if this is really ontopic but whatever, I haven't seen a triple-a title I've had the slightest bit of interest in for probably 2 years. I just don't see anything coming out that makes me go "gee, this would be worth spending 50 bucks on!" I'm sure there are good triple-a games still being made but there are enough old titles, indie games and kickstarter games for me to enjoy that I don't even bother with the triple-a scene any more. New games nowadays, triple-a titles at least, I just don't trust. If they try to sell me on challenge they fail to be challenging. If they try to sell me on being a sequel then they fail at respecting the roots of the franchise and instead steer further away from it. If they try to sell me on gameplay then I usually get bored with the repetition of it half-way through (if I even make it that far) and yearn for an indie title instead.

I'm pretty much done with triple-a games. There are enough old games, indie titles and coming kickstarter games for me to enjoy to not bother with if EA tried to make Dungeon Keeper 3. Like, I'll just go play DK1 or DK2, cause I've learned from the past that DK3 is going to be shite.

Yay for being a bitter fuck!
 
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I have a Planescape Torment in box but sadly the manuals are all in Dutch. Not that I would resell it but that does hurt its value.

Edit; interesting to see how much Fallout 1 has become worth. Makes me wonder how much a Fallout 3 Collector's Edition is worth. (I happen to have one, along with the ugly little statue)

I expect it to drop like a stone in a few years. I'd never expect FO3 or FO4 to match the sale price on that Fallout auction.
(That box was not factory sealed; that was used, and the seller had even split open the box on the seams to show its interior contents.)

*There is currently a Fallout 2 shrinkwrapped box on auction for $799.
Limited Taiwan release.
 
I am not disagreing with you here! I do see the PC as very succesfull platform. I am talking about a marketing point of view. When it comes to the family zone the console is simple superior in marketing here. The PC has also a certain stigma on it that you won't find as much on consoles - the technical nerd. It is also much easier to play with several people using a consoles and TV. Be it with your family, on a party, just a few friends and some beer. The console is a play-and-forget station, plug 4 controllers in, get some mario cart and off you go! The PC is really more something for one person.


I think that the console as a family machine more or less died when Sega left the market and Microsoft entered. Nintendo definitely makes family machines and markets them as such but Microsoft and Sony seem to advertise more toward teens and young adults. I feel like a bro culture developed around the XBox in particular and has stuck around but that's mostly anecdotal.


On that note, I do think that consoles are marketed as social systems and rightly so. Until USB controllers became standard, simultaneous multiplayer games on PC were difficult, I played a number three and four player ones and it always required two people on the keyboard, one on a joystick, and one on the mouse. I do think that this aspect does influence the creation of a lot of quick to pickup (casual) party games but there are also plenty of competitive ones too (see fighting games).


Anyway yes, I agree that they have more potential as a family platform than PC but I would argue that tablets have won the family market at this point, odd as that sounds. I've noticed that it's becoming increasingly normal for people to be on different devices while spending time in the same room and calling that family time. It's an odd shift...


I also enjoyed the Arkham games a lot, even though the first game was so far the best one in my opinion particularly because it was in such a small place. I never felt like Batman was a character that works that well with open world games on the scale of a whole town. Things can get to big sometimes. But that's preference and opinion.


Definitely. I think that Arkham Asylum benefited a lot from being focused. It had collectibles but they were scattered throughout the game as you played it and didn't involve going out of the way too much more than just exploring the area did, with some notable hidden ones. I did dislike that it had you in X-Ray mode for most of the game.


I've only played the first two but Arkham City demonstrated the problem of making a game open world for the sake of being open world. It diluted and distracted from the experience and the plot. It's a good illustration of the damage that happens when you take a linear game, shove it in an open world, and add a bunch of distractions. Don't get me wrong, it's still a fun game but Arkham Asylum made revisiting areas a different and more interesting experience whereas it was more of an annoyance in Arkham City.



That doesn't change the fact that the most complicated games available are primarily for PC. That is why PC got Civilization 5 while the consoles and tablets got Civilization Revolution.


Until recently games like Wasteland 2 would have been unheard of on a console. Crusader Kings 2 would sell under 100,000 copies on consoles I wager. There are anomalies. Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall was on tablets, but it clearly shows that.


Agreed, mouse and keyboard being standard with computers gives it far more flexibility with control and allows for more complicated controls without necessarily bogging down the gameplay. The RTS genre, and games with RTS elements, doesn't work nearly as well on any other platform for this very reason. I will note that TRPGs are old hat on consoles and I feel like turn-based strategy games used to be much more common. I'd also note that arcade-like games tended to be predominantly for consoles through the early 2000's due to controllers being less common on PCs, so there was more separation in expected experiences.


Look at the infamous Quest Marker as example number one of streamlined console catering. Let me be clear here: console gamers don't need shit "streamlined" to this extent. They can handle it if it is portrayed correctly. The developers let people know that dying is normal with Dark Souls and it caught on.


I wouldn't say that the quest marker is inherently bad but it does eliminate a type of exploration gameplay for fans of it. I also think that it eliminates the detailed directions that some games used to offer, which could be interesting dialogue. Fallout was more forgiving of general directions than Morrowind was, so the impact also depends on the game. Dark Souls is an odd beast, especially in this aspect. I would argue that Dark Souls isn't about less hand-holding but about gamers being able to enjoy truly difficult and punishing gameplay.


It really comes down to marketing in a number of ways. You won't see games like Europa Universalis on PS4 anytime soon i wager.


A week ago I would have agreed with you completely but I saw my roommate playing Tropico on his 360 the other day, so I'm leaving room for the possibility. I think that you're dead on about it coming down to marketing.


Might and Magic only had three ports to the consoles back then. The first three I believe. That was in the generation when gamers used graph paper, read instruction manuals, and had no internet. Back when console games weren't simplified beyond recognition. Difficulty wasn't an issue back then. Actually you could argue some of it was too hard depending on what game you are talking about.


My point is just that, it's less to do with the capabilities of the systems and more to do with what developers are making for those systems. My argument is that consoles are not the reason for simpler, easier games but rather the target audience is the cause. When computers became something in most houses that everyone used, casual games really exploded for them. Shortly after that, tablets and smart phones hit it big and largely stole that audience. Consoles became a way to entertain multiple kids with a single game system and TV but now it's not uncommon for houses to have many TVs and many game capable devices and I'd argue that multiplayer console games have suffered for it, though that may have more to do with my personal taste.


I have a Planescape Torment in box but sadly the manuals are all in Dutch. Not that I would resell it but that does hurt its value.


I kick myself on a regular basis for not buying that when it was first released. I remember reading about it in some gaming magazine and drooling over it but I never got around to playing it for years and years. I don't know what it is about the old boxes that was so cool but they just are.
 
I thought I basically agreed with your position.

I just knew you would bring Tropico up for the consoles too.

I have a 6th sense about such things. :grin:

You are 100% correct. It is all about the target audience. Once there might have been a barrier to entry due to technical skills. If you were a complete dork you couldn't boot up the computer and install the game. There is less of a problem of that happening with a console.

More likely a seven year old will pick up Fallout 4 and find nothing they cannot handle. I'm sure it won't be too punishing, the companions will get home safe on time, and the nice Vault Dweller won't have to level up boring old skills. Pick a perk every level! You don't even have to read the words anymore guys! It just says them for you and everything!
 
IGN posted some new information from Quakecon 2015. There may also be leaked audio of the Fallout 4 demo according to Reddit.




LOOTING: Looting will be in real time with no pause whatsoever.


NAMES: The 1000 Names Todd Howard mentioned will be varied; some of them are ridiculous like Mr. Fuckface!


CITIES: A bit of Diamond City was shown (Concept Art). Some attendees say that it was covered in snow. The gameplay was located in Lexington!


DIALOGUE: Dialogue will be incredibly flexible sometimes having the option to have a conversation with 2 other people at the same time.


COMPANIONS: Companions confirmed are a female named Piper located in Diamond City, a robot similar to Codsworth, and Preston Garvey who is part of a group called the Minuteman. There will also be relationships like in several of the Bioware titles.


PIP-BOY: When you look at the Pip-Boy the game will pause as in Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas. The inventory is also easier to get to.


ANIMATIONS: There will now be animations when you are using meds such as Stimpak. There are a lot of different animations, and they're way more detailed than before; even Dogmeat has a ton of little detailed animations for everything he does. AI will now also have the feature of jumping and climbing through some obstacles.


KARMA/REPUTATION: There'll be procedural reactions to you based off your reputation and Karma.


WEAPONS: There was an Automatic Plasma Rifle, but not really anything else. You can also find modified weapons in the Wasteland. This may depend on your luck. You can also melee with your weapon even if there's not a bayonet attached to your weapon!


PERKS/PERKS UI: 7 Categories and 10 Rows. Intimidation and Attack Dog! Perks will also be depend on your SPECIAL.


GHOULS: Ghouls have changed a lot now from their previous two appearances.


LEGENDARY: Many other enemies will be legendary. Even human-like creatures such as Ghouls.


BEHEMOTHS: Some Behemoths were unquestionably bigger than the one in the trailer. Some even say as big as they were in Fallout 3.


HACKING: Nothing special to talk about.


BOOKS: Some books are now readable.


SKILLS: No such thing anymore. Will be replaced with Perks.

The Perks system needs an injection of variety and give-and-take beyond the need to raise one kind of stat to get at a Perk. Multi-stat requiring Perks would help, as would low stat and no-stat specific ones. Would also help alleviate the feeling that your Perk points feel no better than keys to unlock what Skills were already doing.

Reputation...if this means factions are returning, and it probably does, I won't hold my breath on their impact on the world. Especially if the EMP/nuke we saw going off in the FPS trailer was any hint.

-----

And Toront, not to be a negative nancy, but Civ V may not be the best example to give for complex games on the PC. Compared to 3 and 4, and if we're honest, X-COM: Enemy Unknown and Beyond Earth, it was a betrayal of the Civ formula for the purpose of drawing in new players, something Fallout and TES are doing, if not many other series these days; the snipped out for DLC scenario and civ packs were the final straw for me. And Civ V exposed for quite a while how inexperienced the new team behind it was in handling a strategy game based around resource management and nation building. (The early patches, and what got nerfed/adjusted with them in use, were the first sign.) As for the gameplay, what I remember from V was building up points to dump into stuff that didn't help me and exploiting the 1UPT system while exploring, in stark contrast to unlocking direct, useful rewards over time in IV and using my armies/units carefully.
 
The differences between Civ 5 and Revolution were the frame of reference in that comparison. I would choose Crusader Kings 2 as something more suitable as far as complex goes. There are plenty of other worthy substitutes. I also understand even Civilization 5 has been streamlined, Civilization 4 being hailed as the superior version, DLC had to fix certain things, so on and so forth. Civilization Revolution is no Civ 4 or 5. I won't harp any more on it though since the forums are filled with piss and vinegar right now and we could probably use a break.
 
Definitely. I think that Arkham Asylum benefited a lot from being focused. It had collectibles but they were scattered throughout the game as you played it and didn't involve going out of the way too much more than just exploring the area did, with some notable hidden ones. I did dislike that it had you in X-Ray mode for most of the game.


I've only played the first two but Arkham City demonstrated the problem of making a game open world for the sake of being open world. It diluted and distracted from the experience and the plot. It's a good illustration of the damage that happens when you take a linear game, shove it in an open world, and add a bunch of distractions. Don't get me wrong, it's still a fun game but Arkham Asylum made revisiting areas a different and more interesting experience whereas it was more of an annoyance in Arkham City.

For me it was always the most fun when they decided to concentrate on that worlds-best-detective stuff with their Batmangames. That is where it REALLY shines, and a lot of people seem to enjoy that part as well. This was also true for the other Arkham games. Hence why it works best in a more focused environment, even though I don't mind it beeing here and there a bit more open. Particularly as I feel that they really started to repeat way to much content in Batman Arkham City and Dark Knight. There is in particular a scene where you fight the main villain in a tank, and there is also a side mission against Deadshot that plays exactly the same. Both Arkham and Arkham city had much less repetition. Seems bigger is not always better.

And I feel this can be also said about games like Fallout or RPGs in general. I mean Bethesda said several times by now that story telling, writing, plots etc. have to take a backseat when it comes to the visuals and world building - not the minecraft thing they have, I mean in development, populating the world with locations and such.
 
There's a mod for FNV, a huge quest mod that [usually] does not feature quest markers. In my opinion, it's much more better than vanilla NV, as you actually have to think about what to do. There are also puzzles and stuff.

It's Tales from the Burning sands. Or Tales of, I don't remember, have not been playing FNV for a while.
 
There's a mod for FNV, a huge quest mod that [usually] does not feature quest markers. In my opinion, it's much more better than vanilla NV, as you actually have to think about what to do. There are also puzzles and stuff.

Does this raise problems where the game isn't designed to support this approach? I mean "find the water chip" and "find the HEPA filters" are basically isomorphic as quests, but the former is in a game that's designed to sort of funnel you to Necropolis where the chip is in the computer the bottom of Vault 12 whereas the latter is just in a random locker in Vault 22 which you can only get access to through the caves. The latter approach works more or less for NV since you're told "look in nearby vaults" and the quest markers take you there, but there's nothing else to the quest. I mean, I know where those things are in NV, but if I didn't the quest would mostly be "search every container in every vault until you find the thing."
 
There's a mod for FNV, a huge quest mod that [usually] does not feature quest markers. In my opinion, it's much more better than vanilla NV, as you actually have to think about what to do. There are also puzzles and stuff.

Does this raise problems where the game isn't designed to support this approach? I mean "find the water chip" and "find the HEPA filters" are basically isomorphic as quests, but the former is in a game that's designed to sort of funnel you to Necropolis where the chip is in the computer the bottom of Vault 12 whereas the latter is just in a random locker in Vault 22 which you can only get access to through the caves. The latter approach works more or less for NV since you're told "look in nearby vaults" and the quest markers take you there, but there's nothing else to the quest. I mean, I know where those things are in NV, but if I didn't the quest would mostly be "search every container in every vault until you find the thing."

The mod does not affect vanilla quest markers. It only removes quest markers from the quests in the mod itself. NV itself cannot be playable (unless you use the wiki or you played it before) without quest markers since many things are too vague. In FO1/2, you'd get details on what to do. In Metro, you'd get details and a journal. If you still can't figure out what to do, well, there's a quest marker in your journal. But you can't wield a gun with your journal open.

Some Tales notes are vague, but usually details are given if you search around. I mean, IIRC there was a part in an abandoned hospital and you had to get a key to open a door. The guy from before the war lost the key. He recalls on his terminal he lost it in the kitchen, you go search the kitchen. It ain't there!

But hmm, look, unique food item! If you're a collector for unique items, you won't be able to pass this part. However if you eat the food item, you find the key inside. There's also a part with a hacked RobCo terminal and you gotta erase the hack, etc.

For the "where do I go?" notes, it usually says "North of <Insert Iconic Area Name Here>" or West, south, etc.

It can be very hard if you're used to the quest target marker and cannot live with it. But all what it requires is just some thinking, exploring, looting, etc.
 
There's a mod for FNV, a huge quest mod that [usually] does not feature quest markers. In my opinion, it's much more better than vanilla NV, as you actually have to think about what to do. There are also puzzles and stuff.

Does this raise problems where the game isn't designed to support this approach? I mean "find the water chip" and "find the HEPA filters" are basically isomorphic as quests, but the former is in a game that's designed to sort of funnel you to Necropolis where the chip is in the computer the bottom of Vault 12 whereas the latter is just in a random locker in Vault 22 which you can only get access to through the caves. The latter approach works more or less for NV since you're told "look in nearby vaults" and the quest markers take you there, but there's nothing else to the quest. I mean, I know where those things are in NV, but if I didn't the quest would mostly be "search every container in every vault until you find the thing."
I don't remember that quest for NV and I don't remember what the filters are for but let's put it like this, if you got a quest to find a part for an autodoc and the quest said that vaults are your best bet for this then you'd go "autodoc, that's a medical piece of equipment, so it must be in the med bay". Vague quests like that could work totally fine so long as it hints towards where to look. Auto-doc parts in vaults, well obviously you ought to search the med bays for it. So without markers a quest like this can work fine. The quest objective/details need to give you the appropriate hints though.

Now that I looked it up the wikia says that HEPA filters are part of an air filtration system and there is a location in the vault you need to go to called "2nd Level - Oxygen Recycling"so it doesn't sound too vague to me. Then again, I have no idea what the actual dialogue about it is and the player might not do the quest right away so, yeah. Still, all that's needed is a bit of clarification about what general area to look for 'em and it shouldn't be too much of a problem without quest markers.
 
There's a mod for FNV, a huge quest mod that [usually] does not feature quest markers. In my opinion, it's much more better than vanilla NV, as you actually have to think about what to do. There are also puzzles and stuff.

Does this raise problems where the game isn't designed to support this approach? I mean "find the water chip" and "find the HEPA filters" are basically isomorphic as quests, but the former is in a game that's designed to sort of funnel you to Necropolis where the chip is in the computer the bottom of Vault 12 whereas the latter is just in a random locker in Vault 22 which you can only get access to through the caves. The latter approach works more or less for NV since you're told "look in nearby vaults" and the quest markers take you there, but there's nothing else to the quest. I mean, I know where those things are in NV, but if I didn't the quest would mostly be "search every container in every vault until you find the thing."
I don't remember that quest for NV and I don't remember what the filters are for but let's put it like this, if you got a quest to find a part for an autodoc and the quest said that vaults are your best bet for this then you'd go "autodoc, that's a medical piece of equipment, so it must be in the med bay". Vague quests like that could work totally fine so long as it hints towards where to look. Auto-doc parts in vaults, well obviously you ought to search the med bays for it. So without markers a quest like this can work fine. The quest objective/details need to give you the appropriate hints though.

Now that I looked it up the wikia says that HEPA filters are part of an air filtration system and there is a location in the vault you need to go to called "2nd Level - Oxygen Recycling"so it doesn't sound too vague to me. Then again, I have no idea what the actual dialogue about it is and the player might not do the quest right away so, yeah. Still, all that's needed is a bit of clarification about what general area to look for 'em and it shouldn't be too much of a problem without quest markers.

The thing is, though, you're asked to look around all vaults. Not a specific vault, all the vaults. So it'd take a while to find them out.

Also, the Vault 3 one in the same quest as the HEPA are literally stashed randomly in a locker.
 
Also, the Vault 3 one in the same quest as the HEPA are literally stashed randomly in a locker.

Actually, lets look at the stuff.
In Vault 3 you're supposed to look for a reverse pulse cleaner. Where is it? In the maintenance wing. Makes sense, doesn't it?
In Vault 22 you're supposed to look for HEPA cartridge filters, which are on 2nd Level - Oxygen Recycling, again, makes sense.
In Vault 11 you look for a differential pressure controller, but this time it's more tricky, as it's in a flooded section of the vault in the lower level. The fact that it's a pressure controller kinda, sorta, in a way could make you think of deep underwater, but only a genius or a very creative person would figure it out I'm afraid.

So it's not quite that random, it has some logic to it, though the last one could be hidden in a better place.
 
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