The Legion is the best option for the wasteland

superdude34

Mad Grave Robber
Dale Barton often prefers to trade in Legion territories, saying that he finds it cheaper as he rarely has to hire protection or pay extortionate taxes, due to the effectiveness of Legion suppression of raiders and wasteland creatures. Even Rose of Sharon Cassidy has admitted to admiring Legion-controlled areas, as they attract traders, merchants, and wastelander communities in general to their high level of safety, especially when compared to NCR territories and uncontrolled regions.

All the raiders and thugs are not in Legion territory, because they have either been crucified or run off.
Stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply
. This is feasible, given clean water supplies are safe, protected from bandits and other people. There isnt any overconsumption of things, or greed, because you dont wanna have your hands chopped off for being greedy.
The same goes for food sources and farms. Farmers can constantly focus on actual farming, not pissing themselves about criminals and thieves.

NCR is a diverse range of people, where everyone has a say including the congress. In the legion, Caesar gets a say. perhaps some of the praetorians, Vulpes and Lanius. the legion is a more effective decision making body than NCR, who have disagreements and debates. all a waste of time. There is a time for talking and a time for making war. Caesar gets this. NCR does not, democracy and debate is a waste of time, when wars are fought, more concrete, abrupt and brutal decision making is needed. In NCR interests of brahmin barons are put above the people, yet all the cretins (Cassandra Moore, Crocker, Entire NCR population) believe the fucking bullshit about the NCR being the saviour of the wasteland and all that trashy hollow rhetoric. They cant see the corruption because they have their heads so far up their arses obsessing over their sacred democratic republic. Congress today in the USA rarely gets fuck all done, just sit there arguing like self obsessed narcissistic prats (what they are) in a senate, same model in NCR.
They cannot see that their Commanders in chiefs are fools. General Oliver is a block headed idiot. Yet the NCR wont get rid of him, dunno why. Because they are softies, or perhaps they foolishly believe he actually knows what he is doing. Caesar would see through all this, and have his incompetent commander executed, and replaced with someone who understands tactics and defence.
I was talking about the Nipton treatment. Most likely, you will be strung up for pimping or prostitution which drastically reduces the chances of contracting HIV/AIDS, the Clap Etcetera and dying. simple things like this become important.
House just doesn't care about anything other than his personal plaything Vegas.
The wasteland is a crazy, psychotic crazy 100 mile an hour hell pit, and you cant pussyfoot around with unrealistic and unachievable goals. a firm hand is needed. Crocker is a pussy, he does not understand what is needed to succeed as a lasting and imposing presence in a nuclear wasteland. Rest of the NCR is the same.

Due to a ban on modern medicine, alcohol, and synthetic chems, the legionaries are provided with medicines derived from the local flora and fauna. Healing powder and bitter drinks are the most common remedies used to heal wounds. In order to restore crippled limbs, the Legion uses a chem called hydra, a potent brew derived from the Mojave Wasteland's wildlife and cave fungus. Legionaries also carry antivenom as a precaution against poisoning from encounters with the venomous creatures of the desert. In addition, many legionaries carry purified water and food gathered from the wasteland for rations. - Fallout wiki

In my opinion, natural medicine is better than stimpak medicine etcetera. I presume the means to manufacture stimpaks was lost in atomic fire (Please do correct me if I am wrong), hence the supply of them is limited. This means they will inevitably run out. In such a scenario, being able to make natural medicines will be extremely useful. One must remember though, in a situation where you are in the desert, and happen to run out of stimpaks, skills and knowledge with natural resources could prove useful.

You will do better in the wasteland, I assure you, with a large gun and survival skills, than with a scientific brain and morals.
 
All you have to do really, is to ask your self this.
If it was the real world, would I want to live under them? If your anwser is no ... then it probably would be also a bad thing in the game. And if you say, the Legion is great for the Legionaires ... well, no shit. Nazi Germany was really great for the Nazis as well. Considering how few people in New Vegas actually like the Legion, I serious doubts that they would be actually capable of holding the area and actually working for the benefit of the population. What ever if the NCR or House actually offer a better solution, is a whole different question.
 
All you have to do really, is to ask your self this.
If it was the real world, would I want to live under them? If your anwser is no ... then it probably would be also a bad thing in the game. And if you say, the Legion is great for the Legionaires ... well, no shit. Nazi Germany was really great for the Nazis as well. Considering how few people in New Vegas actually like the Legion, I serious doubts that they would be actually capable of holding the area and actually working for the benefit of the population. What ever if the NCR or House actually offer a better solution, is a whole different question.

I don't think that's a great line of logic, though. I wouldn't want to live in an independent Vegas, but I still think it's the best option for the Mojave in the context of the narrative.
 
Obviously you would not want ANY of what you see in New Vegas. But that's not the point. I was talking on a what-if-case, like if you would be some random guy who happens to live in Fallout's New Vegas. Would you really see the Legion as option?
 
All you have to do really, is to ask your self this.
If it was the real world, would I want to live under them? If your anwser is no ... then it probably would be also a bad thing in the game. And if you say, the Legion is great for the Legionaires ... well, no shit. Nazi Germany was really great for the Nazis as well. Considering how few people in New Vegas actually like the Legion, I serious doubts that they would be actually capable of holding the area and actually working for the benefit of the population. What ever if the NCR or House actually offer a better solution, is a whole different question.
This isnt about the real world this is about the Fallout world dude.
I would much rather live under Caesaer, because of this:
All the raiders and thugs are not in Legion territory, because they have either been crucified or run off.
Stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply
. This is feasible, given clean water supplies are safe, protected from bandits and other people. There isnt any overconsumption of things, or greed, because you dont wanna have your hands chopped off for being greedy.
 
So in other words, you would be ok with being enslaved or killed.
I knew someone like you would turn up, having not done any research
Lands under Caesar's protection enjoy stability and security far greater than lands outside its sphere of influence. Traders that have to cross NCR's territories with a guard contingent can safely travel on Legion trade routes alone, without fear of being raided.
People who live in Legion towns enjoy a stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply, and very low crime and corruption levels. They enjoy safe and productive lives with one caveat: never disobey or disturb the Legion. Caesar's men only ask once and the order has to be carried out without question, even if it means resettling fifty miles away at a moment's notice. This generally means that Legion subjects have little, if any, political freedom, rights, or say in what happens to their communities. However, if one keeps quiet, goes about their business and fulfills the rare request the Legion has, then Caesar is a peaceful and caring lord. Many people don't consider this a problem, as even before Caesar's rise, they had little say in the chaotic wastes.[
The Legion just peacefully lord over most of their subjects.
While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals.
So Caesar only enslaves tribals in the East, people who are not in tribes are fine. And being enslaved was probably a good thing for the tribals, they were just sitting around throwing poo at each other in the wasteland anyway.
 
Caesar's men only ask once and the order has to be carried out without question, even if it means resettling fifty miles away at a moment's notice. This generally means that Legion subjects have little, if any, political freedom, rights, or say in what happens to their communities.

But hey, if you're into fascism, then Legion is for you, who are anybody else to take that away from you
 
I'm not really into fascism at all in real life, but the wasteland is a different place, it's survival of the fittest
 
But it's still based on princples that also apply in the real world.

[Violence is] The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.” - Heinlein

So, unless you're a member of the Legion, you will have a hard time with the Legion if you're a resident of New Vegas who values his freedom. The Legion has only very few support by the locals in New Vegas. And we have all seen how that one goes. And they have no qualms to screw their so called allies - see the Khans. They would have always to deal with resistance and conflicts in Vegas, which would have to be solved by force and violence. And if you're living in New Vegas, you can't be really a fan of that.

I knew someone like you would turn up, having not done any research

The Legion just peacefully lord over most of their subjects.
Then, snowflake, enlighten me please. I played the game. In which way would the Leigion be awesome for the people of Vegas? I am sure some people in Poland liked the Germans. Doesn't mean their rule over them, was kinda awesome for Poland.
What ever Caesar or the Legion did in other regions, has no importance for Vegas, if the population doesn't welcome them. And if most of them doesn't welcome them - for a reason, if you played the game - what option has Ceaser? Either enslave them, or kill them. Also the Roman way, by the way.

So Caesar only enslaves tribals in the East, people who are not in tribes are fine. And being enslaved was probably a good thing for the tribals, they were just sitting around throwing poo at each other in the wasteland anyway.
Of course. Unless you're the slave I guess ... duh! No shit. But what worked for the East, doesn't have to work for New Vegas.

Seriously though. The most realistic choice for New Vegas, is House. And I am saying that as someone who prefers the NCR. But for the people of New Veags, he is the right man. Not beacuse he is special. Like I said, I would prefer the NCR, but even if they have a better chance compared to the Legion, I doubt they could hold the area in the long run.
You have to consider this:
1. House alrady did a lot with New Vegas. He has already a foothold there. He achieved more than either the NCR or the Legion did. They are invaders after all.
Which brings me to the second point. 2. House is actually from there. He is a member of Vegas - more than the NCR and the Legion. Which makes him kind of a local.
 
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Mr. House with some input from groups like the Follower's of the Apocalypse would be a far better option than the Legion. I'm not saying a full blown democratic republic like the NCR, but something more akin to modern China. Mr. House would be the leader, and the Followers would oversee and organize the surrounding communities to fulfill the vision that Mr. House has.

Democratic governance is good because all of us are smarter than any of us. Caesar by himself could easily make a stupid decision and would only have himself to blame, same would go for Lanius or Vulpes. The NCR can get more input and if not for the corruption, would make better decisions over time. This is why I'd say Mr. House would be the best option. He would have vision and wouldn't tolerate too much corruption. And you the Courier could go out and essentially build some sort of puppet state with the Followers. This would be a post conflict portion of the game, something we never would see, but it makes more sense.

Mr. House has vision and people like Julie Farkas would provide insight that Mr. House lacks. Just because Mr. House can spy on everything doesn't mean he can deal with the nuance of running things outside of the strip. And he frankly doesn't have the desire to run things outside of the Strip. But he will need resources from beyond his reach like food, expertise and machinery. Things he would need some sort of nation state to do.

So no, the Legion wouldn't be the best option for the Mojave. They'd likely slaughter 1/3 of the people there and enslave or torture the rest. A lot of people would die for nothing and the survivors wouldn't live great lives. I'm not saying life is great to begin with in Outer Vegas, but there is potential and the Legion doesn't represent that. The Legion is a tribal empire. It's completely backwards and shuns technology that it will need to put it on an even footing with the NCR. The Legion might be able to beat them at the edge, but they'd lose when going into heart of the NCR.
 
The Legion is built around a cult of personality around Caesar. Caesar isn't immortal , when he dies, the slave-soldiers will stop having him to believe in. They won't have his charismatic nature getting them to believe that their goal is just. They will turn to the people that have the most authority in their lives and are usually smart and charismatic, their officers. A decentralization of the legion would occur with officers obeying orders less and less, and eventually just becoming warlords.
 
Then, snowflake, enlighten me please
If I'm snowflake then your sunshine.
Then, snowflake, enlighten me please. I played the game. In which way would the Leigion be awesome for the people of Vegas? I am sure some people in Poland liked the Germans. Doesn't mean their rule over them, was kinda awesome for Poland.
What ever Caesar or the Legion did in other regions, has no importance for Vegas, if the population doesn't welcome them. And if most of them doesn't welcome them - for a reason, if you played the game - what option has Ceaser? Either enslave them, or kill them. Also the Roman way, by the way.
OK then sunshine, I'm not sure you read what I put earlier, but looks like I'll have to repaste it so you can get it through your head.
Lands under Caesar's protection enjoy stability and security far greater than lands outside its sphere of influence. Traders that have to cross NCR's territories with a guard contingent can safely travel on Legion trade routes alone, without fear of being raided.
People who live in Legion towns enjoy a stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply, and very low crime and corruption levels. They enjoy safe and productive lives with one caveat: never disobey or disturb the Legion. Caesar's men only ask once and the order has to be carried out without question, even if it means resettling fifty miles away at a moment's notice. This generally means that Legion subjects have little, if any, political freedom, rights, or say in what happens to their communities. However, if one keeps quiet, goes about their business and fulfills the rare request the Legion has, then Caesar is a peaceful and caring lord. Many people don't consider this a problem, as even before Caesar's rise, they had little say in the chaotic wastes.
They dont really enslave all of the population, the ending slides say: The Legion occupied all major locations, enslaving much of the population and peacefully lording over the rest.
Seriously though. The most realistic choice for New Vegas, is House. And I am saying that as someone who prefers the NCR. But for the people of New Veags, he is the right man. Not beacuse he is special. Like I said, I would prefer the NCR, but even if they have a better chance compared to the Legion, I doubt they could hold the area in the long run.
You have to consider this:
1. House alrady did a lot with New Vegas. He has already a foothold there. He achieved more than either the NCR or the Legion did. They are invaders after all.
Which brings me to the second point. 2. House is actually from there. He is a member of Vegas - more than the NCR and the Legion. Which makes him kind of a local.
Fuck Vegas, I want Caesar to go in there and smash it up and burn it down, the bunch of elitist dogs.
My point is sunshine the Legion is the best option for the actual wasteland, House is best for a cadre of elitists in NV.
The Legion is built around a cult of personality around Caesar. Caesar isn't immortal , when he dies, the slave-soldiers will stop having him to believe in. They won't have his charismatic nature getting them to believe that their goal is just. They will turn to the people that have the most authority in their lives and are usually smart and charismatic, their officers. A decentralization of the legion would occur with officers obeying orders less and less, and eventually just becoming warlords.
There are some competent candidates to replace Caesar, like Lucius. But TBH I think a Fallout game based around a collapse of the Legion and loads of warlords competing would be awesome.
They'd likely slaughter 1/3 of the people there and enslave or torture the rest
OK so the ending slide shows that nobody is slaughtered, and some people but not all are enslaved. The people who the Legion enslaves are almost always tribals and primitives, so more civil people have nothing to worry about. And nobody fucking lives a great life in the wasteland, so "wont live great lives" is not a valid point.
It's completely backwards and shuns technology that it will need to put it on an even footing with the NCR. The Legion might be able to beat them at the edge, but they'd lose when going into heart of the NCR.
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Ok so the Legion does not shun technology but it just does not have an unhealthy reliance on it. It uses complicated guns and energy melee weapons, and its not using medicine just spurs innovation within soldiers.
In a situation where you are in the desert, skills and knowledge with natural resources could prove useful.
What evidence do you have that the Legion would not be able to get to the heart of the NCR. NCR was in the shit at the beginning of FNV anyway, and they are in a really bad position in general. The Legion is basically a nation based on war, with an army much better than NCR's, and you are saying they could not conquer them? Dream on, the NCR military is hugely overstretched, and the average soldier gets 2 weeks training, compared to the Legion. These guys are consummate warriors, who have been training on the job since infancy.
Mr. House with some input from groups like the Follower's of the Apocalypse would be a far better option than the Legion. I'm not saying a full blown democratic republic like the NCR, but something more akin to modern China. Mr. House would be the leader, and the Followers would oversee and organize the surrounding communities to fulfill the vision that Mr. House has.
yeaaaaaaaaaaahhhh....no.
Mr House is not gonna make some alliance with the FOTA and do some kind of joint government shit, its just not happening.

Guys, the reason we see so much slavery and death is because they are so underdeveloped. If Bethdicksda had given Obsidian more time, we would see legion towns in the north that are happy, safe and prosperous.

@Dr Fallout come join in bro, I could do with somebody pro Legion on my side.
 
Let us replace Legion with Third Reich and New Vegas with Poland.
Do you still think the Legion is the best choice for the CITIZENS(!) of New Vegas? Because this is what I am talking about, and you can mention a billion, trillion and billions of time how well the Legion is doing in THEIR teritory. Because I as a citizen of New Vegas, will not give a shit about it.

I get the feeling you're arguing from the view point of the LEGION, because you love them. Which is alright. I love the NCR. Which makes us both biased. I admit that. But, objectively speaking, for NEW VEGAS, House has the best chances in the long run. Simply because he is a CITIZEN of the damn place and he already runs it as a de facto leader. You know, like when the Russian people had to chose between Hitler and Stalin in WW2, and they chose the one that spoke their language - I quoted here a Soviet WW2 vet.
 
I'm not sure the argument of "survival of the fittest" in the wasteland will cut it when you've had two fairly civilised groups: House-controlled Vegas and the democratic NCR (I'm not saying both are perfect), managing to bring about order and peace in the Mojave wasteland without slavery and misogyny.
 
So dont talk to me about Vegas (the city) because I dont care about it and I think it needs sacking. Who needs them.
Do you still think the Legion is the best choice for the CITIZENS(!) of New Vegas? Because this is what I am talking about, and you can mention a billion, trillion and billions of time how well the Legion is doing in THEIR teritory. Because I as a citizen of New Vegas, will not give a shit about it.
Its actually a better place in the Mojave too, in cut content, as I said, there are prosperous and happy Legion towns in the north. The Legion brings stability and good living standards wherever it goes.
 
The legion doesn't bring good living standards in a place where it would be in constant war with other factions.

The NCR could have an easy time fortifying the Mojave Outpost, and could put artillery up there to shell Legion positions. A dozen machine guns, some barbed wire and a few trenches would be well enough for a few hundred legionnaires. At that point, the NCR could start exercising their vertibirds in the Mojave, and expand to the hill-ish area north of the Mojave Outpost, to allow NCR commanders the ability to cut the highway between Primm and Nipton, making supplies a more tedious process with the Legion having to go through the mountains, or try defeating the deathclaws at the quarry.

Anyway, Lanius might be a good soldier and officer, but he doesn't have any of the cult of personality Caesar does. He also would have little experience dealing with the governing systems of the legion, and I doubt he would care.
 
And I arribe!

Hullo, hullo, hullo!

We use front line soldiers as an example of the society as a whole. Using this logic, the UN is a degenerate hell hole that sends rapists and looters to fight their wars against the poor of the Middle East who are oppressed and targeted by the west for no reason! All because some soldiers are assholes and their command don't really care.
 
The NCR could have an easy time fortifying the Mojave Outpost, and could put artillery up there to shell Legion positions. A dozen machine guns, some barbed wire and a few trenches would be well enough for a few hundred legionnaires. At that point, the NCR could start exercising their vertibirds in the Mojave, and expand to the hill-ish area north of the Mojave Outpost, to allow NCR commanders the ability to cut the highway between Primm and Nipton, making supplies a more tedious process with the Legion having to go through the mountains, or try defeating the deathclaws at the quarry.
So some machine guns, trenches, and some barbed wire is going to stop a mechanized war nation of over 100,000 consummate warriors.
Dream on sunshine.
 
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