Trump wins

Buxbaum666 said:
I think it's bizarre that earlier in our discussions you thought I thought people being upset about Trump justifies rioting and you disapproved of that. Now you actually justify torture of people who, in your eyes, deserve it. Torture not even to get information (which doesn't work, anyway) but torture for torture's sake. That is nothing but sadistic gratification, really.
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Sadistic, yes. I already said you'd call me a jerk for thinking this way, I was right. Here's the thing, people rioting over Trump is hurting INNOCENT people, regular Americans like me. It's not hurting something as awful as a rapist or a terrorist. Are you sure you fully read what I posted? I said I only approve of torture when it's done to an actual criminal, someone evil. Are you genuinely saying you think people like child rapists, mass murderers, terrorists, and people like that don't deserve some kind of physical punishment for their horrible deeds? Maybe you don't, and that's your opinion, you can be Mr. Pacifist on this issue if you want, but I certainly will not. I think they're getting exactly what they deserve for being evil.
 
CT Phipps said:
Don't pay evil unto evil. Pay good until evil and stop it from happening again.
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Yes yes, forgive 7x77, turn the other cheek, do unto others, etc. I know all the old Biblical sayings, I'm Catholic after all. However, I just can't help but get all happy when evil-doers are punished for what they've done. Compassionate kindness doesn't work on these sorts of people who are already black in the soul as can be. Take for example, the school shooter near my home town, Luke Woodham. He shot up the school, killed 2 people, and nearly killed 8 more, until he was stopped by the vice principal who had a gun in his car thankfully. Oh sure he acts like he's a good boy now and that he was just bullied into it and he's a "born again Christian" but it's all hogwash. He would kill again in a heartbeat, you can see it in the way he acts, the way he talks, what he's written. People like these, well, only the love of Jesus Christ can give them a 2nd chance, because I sure won't.
 
Ragemage said:
Sadistic, yes. I already said you'd call me a jerk for thinking this way, I was right. Here's the thing, people rioting over Trump is hurting INNOCENT people, regular Americans like me. It's not hurting something as awful as a rapist or a terrorist. Are you sure you fully read what I posted? I said I only approve of torture when it's done to an actual criminal, someone evil.

Are you genuinely saying you think people like child rapists, mass murderers, terrorists, and people like that don't deserve some kind of physical punishment for their horrible deeds? Maybe you don't, and that's your opinion, you can be Mr. Pacifist on this issue if you want, but I certainly will not. I think they're getting exactly what they deserve for being evil.
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Like I said, it seems a poor attitude to have people say, "those people deserve to be treated like animals because they're evil" when the accusing hand is so frequently thrown about easily. In the United States, we have thrown out the label of evil against countless people both innocent and guilty that they deserve nothing but the worst.

Unions were enemies of America because they were communists, The United States bombed them -- the only time we've ever bombed American citizens.

The HUAC was founded to fight the KKK and ended up going against whoever they assumed was an enemy of American values.

Black Civil Rights leaders were targeted by the FBI along with many others.

Homosexuals.

Saying the genuinely evil deserve to be tortured is an argument I can't get behind, not because I dont' believe in evil or its opposition, but if you give a man a sword and approval to swing it--it rarely swings clear or precisely.

Ragemage said:
Yes yes, forgive 7x77, turn the other cheek, do unto others, etc. I know all the old Biblical sayings, I'm Catholic after all. However, I just can't help but get all happy when evil-doers are punished for what they've done. Compassionate kindness doesn't work on these sorts of people who are already black in the soul as can be. Take for example, the school shooter near my home town, Luke Woodham. He shot up the school, killed 2 people, and nearly killed 8 more, until he was stopped by the vice principal who had a gun in his car thankfully. Oh sure he acts like he's a good boy now and that he was just bullied into it and he's a "born again Christian" but it's all hogwash. He would kill again in a heartbeat, you can see it in the way he acts, the way he talks, what he's written. People like these, well, only the love of Jesus Christ can give them a 2nd chance, because I sure won't.
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A relative of mine was raped repeatedly growing up and when she finally revealed it, her mother informed her that he'd been born again and wasn't going to allow her to make a mockery of his life. When she told me as an adult, I, genuinely considered going down there and killing the man. Only the fact my relative stopped me did so.

He's dead now....thankfully.

I don't believe in waving away the consequences of their actions. But I would have been satisfied with prison for him--at least so he never hurt anyone ever again.
 
CT Phipps said:
Saying the genuinely evil deserve to be tortured is an argument I can't get behind, not because I dont' believe in evil or its opposition, but if you give a man a sword and approval to swing it--it rarely swings clear or precisely.
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Well, thanks for sharing your opinion. I just feel like the whole "oh abolish everything because a few innocents got hurt!" is malarky to put it simply. There's just not enough cases there to prove to me that we should do away with the whole thing.

Now if we could please get back to the actual damn point of this thread since Jo'Geran and BuxBaum stopped posting? This is not a fucking philosophical debate thread or a #AskRageMage thread, this is a "We fucking won despite every single media outlet saying we wouldn't, hallelujah amen" thread.

 
As you wish.

My general view is I don't support Trump's immigration or refugee policies. I think the Wall is a massively stupid waste of taxpayer dollars. I am deeply concerned about his vague stance on European and Asian military deployment. I do, however, generally support his economic policy. I also find it deeply disturbing he's put Pence as his VP and wish he'd chosen almost anyone else as I despise the man.

I'm also worried about ACA as its something which is helping some truly destitute people I know.

I do think Trump's presidency has the potential to move the Republican's economic policy to the left and that's a good thing. I also think democracy has spoken in the United States and that has to be listened to--even if you don't like the results.
 
CT Phipps said:
As you wish.

My general view is I don't support Trump's immigration or refugee policies. I think the Wall is a massively stupid waste of taxpayer dollars. I am deeply concerned about plans for Europe and America's militaries in foreign countries. I do, however, generally support his economic policy. I also find it deeply disturbing he's put Pence as his VP and wish he'd chosen almost anyone else as I despise the man.

I'm also worried about ACA as its something which is helping some truly destitute people I know.

I do think Trump's presidency has the potential to move the Republican's economic policy to the left and that's a good thing. I also think democracy has spoken in the United States and that has to be listened to--even if you don't like the results.
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Come on dude, just post one meme or ridiculous video. You're killing my vibe here.
 
CT Phipps said:
As you wish.

My general view is I don't support Trump's immigration or refugee policies. I think the Wall is a massively stupid waste of taxpayer dollars.
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Most people who are part of the Latino community, like my family, hate illegal immigrants. My grandmother, who was a amazing women, was a card carrying bleeding heart liberal democrat. As was her 11 brothers and sisters and they all fucking hated illegal immigrants. I remember watching a illegal immigrant protest with my grandmother and I remember seeing her knuckles turn white with anger. Legal immigrants and American born Hispanics don't like illegals for the same reasons as everyone else. They break the law, take away jobs and want to be on government social programs without paying their fair share with taxes. I have no idea where liberals got the idea that all Hispanics love illegals from as its nothing but a fantasy.
 
RangerBoo said:
Most people who are part of the Latino community, like my family, hate illegal immigrants. My grandmother, who was a amazing women, was a card carrying bleeding heart liberal democrat. As was her 11 brothers and sisters and they all fucking hated illegal immigrants. I remember watching a illegal immigrant protest with my grandmother and I remember seeing her knuckles turn white with anger. Legal immigrants and American born Hispanics don't like illegals for the same reasons as everyone else. They break the law, take away jobs and want to be on government social programs without paying their fair share with taxes. I have no idea where liberals got the idea that all Hispanics love illegals from as its nothing but a fantasy.
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I think illegal immigration is helped by the people who love having a group of desperate people to exploit for cheap labor. What I don't think will actually help is the creation of a "Great Wall of China" meets the Berlin Wall in the land of the free and the home of the brave. Especially since it's there to dig under or use a rope to climb.

The 200+ billion dollars this will cost are better spent on....anything.

I've always favored the general amnesty simply because it'll be a strike against wage exploitation and working to integrate people versus using them as an invisible unprotected population.
 
Ragemage said:
Sadistic, yes. I already said you'd call me a jerk for thinking this way, I was right.
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I didn't call you a jerk. I'm very sad that people think your way, though.

Ragemage said:
Here's the thing, people rioting over Trump is hurting INNOCENT people, regular Americans like me. It's not hurting something as awful as a rapist or a terrorist. Are you sure you fully read what I posted? I said I only approve of torture when it's done to an actual criminal, someone evil.
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I fully read and understood what you posted.

Ragemage said:
Are you genuinely saying you think people like child rapists, mass murderers, terrorists, and people like that don't deserve some kind of physical punishment for their horrible deeds?
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Yes.

Ragemage said:
Maybe you don't, and that's your opinion, you can be Mr. Pacifist on this issue if you want, but I certainly will not. I think they're getting exactly what they deserve for being evil.
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Words like "evil" and "terrorist" are so ill-defined and over-used that they are pretty much meaningless. The Wikipedia page for Definitions of terrorism is extremely long, for a reason.

You know how conservatives like to rag on "SJWs" and how they are supposedly led by their emotions and feelings rather than reason and facts? I know that I'm often labelled as such in debates. I actually agree that reasoning should come before emotions and would like people to apply this to punishment of crimes as well. Things like anger and revenge should have no place in it, ever. I'm a strong supporter of basic human rights and due process for everyone. Those are, to me, the fundamental building blocks of any "civilized" nation and disregarding them makes us no better than those we punish.
 
RangerBoo said:
Most people who are part of the Latino community, like my family, hate illegal immigrants. My grandmother, who was a amazing women, was a card carrying bleeding heart liberal democrat. As was here 11 brothers and sisters and they all fucking hated illegal immigrants. I remember watching a illegal immigrant protest with my grandmother and I remember seeing her knuckles turn white with anger. Legal immigrants and American born Hispanics don't like illegals for the same reasons as everyone else. They break the law, take away jobs and want to be on government social programs without paying their fair share with taxes. I have no idea where liberals got the idea that all Hispanics love illegals from as its nothing but a fantasy.
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In mainland Spain it's a big issue too, we are one of the top North-African immigrants destinations, along Italy and Greece.
And it would be the n.1 destination if surveillance and bureaucracy wasn't massively improved during the past two decades.
We are as sorry as anybody for all the unremembered deaths in shitty boats in the middle of the Mediterranean, but they are their own countries' problem.

And in my Mexican family side, they feel the same as yours. Illegals taint the whole Hispanic reputation.
Too bad that grandpa Ernesto didn't make it to see the Wall though. Was rootin' to see it even for lols
 
Buxbaum666 said:
I actually agree that reasoning should come before emotions ..
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This needs strong self-control, since our brain works in the opposite way - amygdala start kicking in before cortex. Atavistic mechanism saving many lives in the past, very unsuitable for online communication though!
 
Yea people who took the time to go through the legal process of coming over and becomming a citizen tend to not like people who hop the border, dont even bother to learn the language or contribute to society at all.
And that goes for anyone even if youre Hispanic, African or a blond haired blue eyed Swede.
Also compare the cost of the wall and the cost of maintaining all these illegals and it becomes chump change.
 
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Vergil said:
:shrug:
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Sorry, in a weirdly Bioshock mood.

But short version in that if you keep pushing the economic burden on the poor, the poor will make themselves known.

Poll bias is pissing me off now as everyone highlights Caucasians voted for Trump versus the poor in general.
 
CT Phipps said:
Sorry, in a weirdly Bioshock mood.

But short version in that if you keep pushing the economic burden on the poor, the poor will make themselves known.
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Looks like the jokes runnin' wild over your head brother
CT Phipps said:
Trump won because of the same reasons Atlas did.
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Vergil said:
(shrug emoticon)
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CT Phipps said:
Poll bias is pissing me off now as everyone highlights Caucasians voted for Trump versus the poor in general.
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Media outlets shocked as large numbers of Whites supported canidate who doesent demonize them.
 
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