What Would You Have Done to Make Bethesda's Fallout 3 Better?

11. Romance Options: You have the option to date a number of the women and men in the game as well as companions.
Not fucking necessary.
12. Evergreen Mills is a violence-free Raider Zone: You can go there, shop, talk to the Raiders, and learn their backstories. It turns out that all of the Raiders you've been fighting are the people of Evergreen Mills that got tired of being crapped on by so many other factions. After a famine wiped away their crops, they turned to raiding other settlements and traders to survive and have actually wiped out at least one completely.
To actually sell that off you need to make raiders outside of Evergreen Mills less of psychopaths wearing spiky armour and actual people. Most raiders will try ask you first, allowing for you to try persuade them, pay them off, kill them, etc. Depending on your reputation they'll be more likely to leave you alone, kill you or ask you.
 
To you?

No.

To me?

Yes. Then again, I kind of give this look to people who are okay with murdering people in a game but balk at consensual sex or romance.

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To actually sell that off you need to make raiders outside of Evergreen Mills less of psychopaths wearing spiky armour and actual people. Most raiders will try ask you first, allowing for you to try persuade them, pay them off, kill them, etc. Depending on your reputation they'll be more likely to leave you alone, kill you or ask you.

Yes, because in a post-apocalypse where you need everything to survive, you're going to give up everything you own. Evergreen Mills Raiders aren't stupid, they're not going to ask, they're going to kill you and take your stuff because otherwise you'd kill them.

Robbery should be the same as killing you in the PA world.
 
To you?

No.

To me?

Yes. Then again, I kind of give this look to people who are okay with murdering people in a game but balk at consensual sex or romance.
Are you kidding me? I love it in games when murdering people is an option but it's a dangerous, hard and traumatic one to experience UNLESS you're a soldier, raider or merc. Games that have wanton murder bore me more often then not.
Yes, because in a post-apocalypse where you need everything to survive, you're going to give up everything you own. Evergreen Mills Raiders aren't stupid, they're not going to ask, they're going to kill you and take your stuff because otherwise you'd kill them.

Robbery should be the same as killing you in the PA world.
That's the problem. That's never was supposed to happen in Fallout. In Fallout 1 we have cities, citizens and small trading caravans, not everyone being a fucking survivalist. In Fallout 1 people can afford to lose their goods, because they're NOT fighting tooth and nail to survive. Most people live in what amounts to small villages, or towns not small camps. Normality has returned right at the beginning, though of course it's different to what we're used to. People aren't savages (unless they're tribals) or badasses if they're travelling. They can either be in caravans (which will happily give their goods rather than their lives) or migrant travelers (who could give everything they own in the hope of reaching their destination and getting a better life there).

You expect that everyone is trying desperately to survive and will fight to the last breath to keep surviving in the rough, tough and savage wasteland. Except that was never really the case.
 
Eh, I like romances is what I'm saying. Romance is one of the most wonderful storytelling elements all time and certainly most useful.

So I see no reason not to include them. You can not play them if you don't like them.

That's the problem. That's never was supposed to happen in Fallout. In Fallout 1 we have cities, citizens and small trading caravans, not everyone being a fucking survivalist. In Fallout 1 people can afford to lose their goods, because they're NOT fighting tooth and nail to survive. Most people live in what amounts to small villages, or towns not small camps. Normality has returned right at the beginning, though of course it's different to what we're used to. People aren't savages (unless they're tribals) or badasses if they're travelling. They can either be in caravans (which will happily give their goods rather than their lives) or migrant travelers (who could give everything they own in the hope of reaching their destination and getting a better life there).

You expect that everyone is trying desperately to survive and will fight to the last breath to keep surviving in the rough, tough and savage wasteland. Except that was never really the case.

It being the case in Fallout 3 isn't a bad thing, though. It helps make the environment feel more hellish and a place which needs the Lone Wanderer to either save it or put it out of its misery. A major part of what makes Fallout 3 so good is because even in the vanilla game, it is a place which feels much more desperate and terrible than the other Fallouts.

A radioactive version of hell. Not some nice pleasant cozy apocalypse.

Which is one of my biggest complaints about the other games as they seem to happy and rebuilt.
 
Not fucking necessary.

To actually sell that off you need to make raiders outside of Evergreen Mills less of psychopaths wearing spiky armour and actual people. Most raiders will try ask you first, allowing for you to try persuade them, pay them off, kill them, etc. Depending on your reputation they'll be more likely to leave you alone, kill you or ask you.

If all the raiders weren't dressed like that and the Evergreen raiders actually had a reason for dressing in spiky armour, I'd be a bit more likely to buy it.

To you?

No.

To me?

Yes. Then again, I kind of give this look to people who are okay with murdering people in a game but balk at consensual sex or romance.

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Yes, because in a post-apocalypse where you need everything to survive, you're going to give up everything you own. Evergreen Mills Raiders aren't stupid, they're not going to ask, they're going to kill you and take your stuff because otherwise you'd kill them.

Robbery should be the same as killing you in the PA world.

If they're going to kill everyone they see (barring the odd person they decide is slave material) then why do they have a brothel and a trader?
 
If they're going to kill everyone they see (barring the odd person they decide is slave material) then why do they have a brothel and a trader?

Hey man, you look loaded down with loot. I think if I did Evergreen Mills, I would have it so it's a place where no one attacks you because there's rules and they allow traders who are willing to work with them to be cool. It's just the sort of place you need to bribe to get in kind of like Paradise Falls. I wouldn't merge them too because keeping the slaver and raider sections separate is good.

I would definitely have slaves there, though.

Maybe a gladiator pit too.

I would however definitely emphasize the fact that while the Evergreen Mills population is all anarched-up and drugged up as a way to make sure people are terrified of them (because they're a bunch of normal Wastelanders otherwise), I would make sure people know the environment drove them to this and that's another reason for the Purifier.
 
It being the case in Fallout 3 isn't a bad thing, though. It helps make the environment feel more hellish and a place which needs the Lone Wanderer to either save it or put it out of its misery. A major part of what makes Fallout 3 so good is because even in the vanilla game, it is a place which feels much more desperate and terrible than the other Fallouts.

A radioactive version of hell. Not some nice pleasant cozy apocalypse.

Which is one of my biggest complaints about the other games as they seem to happy and rebuilt.
That's because Human nature will make us form societies, groups, nations and install law and order in some manner. We are a social animal, arguably the MOST social animal on earth, to the extent where we thrive and need other Humans to survive and live full lives. Even in times of great stress and problems Humans will band together to SOLVE the problem, not merely tolerate it. We Humans strive not merely to survive but to CONTROL the environment and the resources in it. That's why Fallout 1 makes infinitely more sense because it takes into account the fact that Humans will strive together to prosper, to rebuild, to make something more.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Humans are naturally inclined to forming societies and rebuilding, not acting as insane drug addicts and rampaging around fucking over people. Humans are dicks, selfish, cruel, corrupt, etc but they get things done.
 
Fallout 3's 'raiders' should really be renamed something like "Maniacs".

They just kill everything in sight, regardless of whatever it is (funny seeing them 'rob' a deathclaw...Or rather, TRY...)

Kinda reminds me of the 'bandits' in DayZ...Apparently bandits one rule is 'shoot everything in sight'.
 
That's because Human nature will make us form societies, groups, nations and install law and order in some manner. We are a social animal, arguably the MOST social animal on earth, to the extent where we thrive and need other Humans to survive and live full lives. Even in times of great stress and problems Humans will band together to SOLVE the problem, not merely tolerate it. We Humans strive not merely to survive but to CONTROL the environment and the resources in it. That's why Fallout 1 makes infinitely more sense because it takes into account the fact that Humans will strive together to prosper, to rebuild, to make something more.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Humans are naturally inclined to forming societies and rebuilding, not acting as insane drug addicts and rampaging around fucking over people. Humans are dicks, selfish, cruel, corrupt, etc but they get things done.

Looting, pillaging, and burning have also been global pasttimes in virtually all periods where there isn't enough food or supplies but plenty of ammunition. Indeed, pre-Industrialization, whenever an army moved through a countryside there was ALWAYS banditry.
 
Looting, pillaging, and burning have also been global pasttimes in virtually all periods where there isn't enough food or supplies but plenty of ammunition. Indeed, pre-Industrialization, whenever an army moved through a countryside there was ALWAYS banditry.
There was. And guess what? Villagers joined together to fight the bandits, ambushing them and killing them when they could, commonly occurring in the 30 Years War. But this also fails to contradict that Humans will end up rebuilding things, as a constant raider society is not sustainable and results in stagnancy.
 
It being the case in Fallout 3 isn't a bad thing, though. It helps make the environment feel more hellish and a place which needs the Lone Wanderer to either save it or put it out of its misery. A major part of what makes Fallout 3 so good is because even in the vanilla game, it is a place which feels much more desperate and terrible than the other Fallouts.

A radioactive version of hell. Not some nice pleasant cozy apocalypse.
10 years immediately after the bombs fall... this hellish environment could work.

200 years... not so much. Sufficient amounts of time would have passed for the region to recover and it hurts the setting.

Looting, pillaging, and burning have also been global pasttimes in virtually all periods where there isn't enough food or supplies but plenty of ammunition. Indeed, pre-Industrialization, whenever an army moved through a countryside there was ALWAYS banditry.
And after that banditry, there are attempts at organization. It's why anarchy never lasts since people will eventually organize together to solve a common problem and depending on how successful this is, it could build up from there. Order always comes about when faced with some form of chaos.

It's the main reason why Tracer Tong's ending in Deus Ex is often regarded as the worst ending of the three endings; it does not fix the problems of the setting, only delays them. Even in Invisible War, Tong acknowledges how stupid his younger self was in thinking that anarchy induced by a global dark age was the best solution to preventing dominance by powerful secret societies.

A constant raider society that does not settle down at some point will eventually fall apart.
 
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