Why Fallout New Vegas is the high point of the franchise

Fallout New Vegas, is certainly a great game, and it definetly is a decent adaption of Fallout in a first person shooter-like setting - we all know Obsidian had simply no other choice but to use Beths fucked up engine and gameplay, however Obsidian tried to make the best of it in such a short time and they definetly succeeded. But NV is NOT a high point of the Franchise in my opinion. A game, to be really the top of the franchise, has to stay true on every aspect of Fallout 1. Not just the role playing, but also the gameplay and with the visuals. It goes without a saying that the graphics have to be updated. But it should still remain a top-down perspective, comparable to what we saw in Wasteland 2 or the newest X-Com games. Those games have proven, that it is possible. If NV would have also improved on the gameplay, like a better and more tactical turn based combat, then I would have called it a real high point.
That's at least my opinion.
If anything, Obsidian has proved that Bethesda's game engine and first-person perspective can make for an experience that is both deep and popular.

I love top-down isometric games, and as you can see by the avatar I'm experienced in Toaster Repair, but New Vegas is proof that it's not the engine or first-person perspective that is holding Bethesda back - it is Bethesda's terrible, awful, garbage writers.

I personally love both styles, and think Wasteland 2 proves that top-down isometric games still have a place in Fallout, while New Vegas shows that the first-person perspective can be done incredibly well. New Vegas' first-person perspective offers an RPG experience from a viewpoint that is very immersive.

Fallout 1 and 2 are wonderful experiences, and the reason I rate New Vegas as the greatest Fallout game ever made is in part because the originals are constrained by the limitations of their times - technology simply didn't allow for some of the experiences you get with a modern game like New Vegas.

So while I do love the top-down perspective, I also found the first-person perspective of New Vegas to be a wonderful way to present a Fallout game when done by competent writers.
 
I also found the first-person perspective of New Vegas to be a wonderful way to present a Fallout game when done by competent writers.

It's not just the writing that New Vegas benefits from, but all the little details they add in to the world. Every single settlement has a clearly defined infrastructure that you can visibly see. In Fallout 3, Megaton didn't really make sense because there was no farmland to justify growing food, and they didn't really produce anything to trade for food, other than water, but that was irradiated anyways. It's things like this that, for me, always nagged me in the back of my mind and forced me to constantly have to suspend my disbelief. In New Vegas however, you can see people growing crops outside of their homes, raising Brahmin for food/milk, even a huge farmstead using share-cropping to meet the food demands of New-Vegas. The Classic Fallouts also built there worlds up in a similar way, so it's curious why Bethesda didn't try to take ques and properly build the world, but then again, we're talking about the same people who designed an entire world without any sort of bathrooms in it.
 
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I love top-down isometric games, and as you can see by the avatar I'm experienced in Toaster Repair, but New Vegas is proof that it's not the engine or first-person perspective that is holding Bethesda back - it is Bethesda's terrible, awful, garbage writers.
You're missunderstanding my intentions. The point is, for me New Vegas could offer the best writing and role playing that any Fallout game has ever seen to this day. If it also doesn't offer a top down and turn based gameplay, then it simply lacks the necessary 'Fallout' experience to call it self the best Fallout game there could be.

See, when I played a game like Jagged Alliance for example, then I get a lot of enjoyment from the fact that it is up to this day, one of the best turn based games. The turn based gameplay is a crucial experience for me. And it also defines the game. Any Jagged Alliance sequel, that even HOPES to come close to this quality and experience MUST(!) include turn based gameplay. Or it will never be a whole Jagged Alliance experience. And a game like JA or Fallout, as we have seen, can be easily turned in to shooters. But, when I look for the Fallout experience, then I am not looking for a shooter first.

The Fallout 1 and 2 developers chose turn based exactly for that reason as well, to provide the players with a certain experience. This is how I played Fallout for the first time, and this how I will always see the ideal Fallout. As a turn based game with a top down perspective and a tight role playing experience. You can eventually make a game, like New Vegas, and remove the turn based combat in favour of a more shooter-like gameplay, but then it will lack the Fallout gameplay of the original games. And like I said, as we have seen with Wasteland 2, X-Com, Age of Decadence and many more games which have been released recently, that turn based is still as viable as ever.

For me, a game that want's to pride it self as the high-point of the franchise, can never be that without turn based and top down gameplay, even if it had the best role playing experience ever. Just as how a Doom game, has always to be a first person shooter and not a top down strategy game, even if it was the best strategy game ever.

So while I do love the top-down perspective, I also found the first-person perspective of New Vegas to be a wonderful way to present a Fallout game when done by competent writers.
That's your personal preference however. I like to think, that the best Fallout experience can be only found by following the original concept and idea that the Fallout 1 developers had in mind when they chose their gameplay and narative. They chose the gameplay first, and the setting later by the way. And this was not by considence. A lot of first person games and real time action-games have been released at that time. And the Fallout 1 developers, chose to go against this because they wanted to provide a unique experience. One of the ideas was to emulate the PnP gameplay to the PC. And you simply can not do that with first person and real time combat. But this is the core of Fallout. What ever if that is now something that some Fallout fans prefer or not.

Fallout New Vegas is a great game with a lot of fun and a great role playing game too. But, it sadly does dillute the Fallout experience, when you take Fallout 1 as blue print. And I could never see New Vegas as anything but a (very well made) Spin-off.
 
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New Vegas is my favourite simply because I do not like the top down perspective at all. If it wasn't for getting previously introduced to the franchise with 3 and then reading about the old games and having that pre-existing interest I would never have played the original two Fallouts. It's just not my thing usually, if I see a random game on the front page of Steam for example and I look and it's a top down strategy game I immediately click out. For top down strategy games I have to have some kind of pre-existing interest to bother with it. Another example is Tyranny. If it was being made by any other company it wouldn't even be on my radar.
 
I'm just shocked it exists, it's such a recent article. Maybe New Vegas will actually get some real cult status amongst video gaming, and I don't mean in the sense that it will be a fun game loved amongst just Fallout and RPG fans. I mean critically.

Quick history lesson: The Wicker Man was filmed in 1973. The producers hated it. They thought it was weird and unmarketable. Because they didn't know how to sell it they slashed and edited it. Changed it to be a marketable "B horror" movie, then sold it to British and American markets where it was quickly forgotten by everyone but the people who made it and the few people who saw it. Then suddenly, four years later, an American article was written about it, describing it as the "the Citizen Kane of horror movies." Suddenly renewed interest appeared. The original people behind it looked to repair the film and rerelease it. In 1979 they were able to put together a more complete version, which was released to critical acclaim. Voila! We now have a critically acclaimed cult classic on our hands. One that appears in the "1001 Movies to see before you die" books. My point is, there may be hope for New Vegas yet.

I love The Wicker Man, it's one of my favorite films, so I see your point.
I'm absolutely certain that as time passes New Vegas will only gain on its importance. Part of it will be because of its own merit and qualities, the other because there simply won't be another (post-apocalyptic) game that will be able to top it. Bethesda certainly won't make one. I have my doubts in inXile, and I'm not sure there's any other studio out there that is remotely interested in making AAA post-apocalyptic RPG.
Unfortunately, unlike The Wicker Man, we won't see any additional work on New Vegas in any way. Perhaps even on Fallout franchise (I mean, legit work).

Agreed with you on Fallout being a better game than Vegas, but to be honest the two are very different beasts. Fallout is a science-fiction gothic horror story. New Vegas is a post-apocalyptic western. If it weren't for Bethesda's engine the two would be stood as equals for me.

Indeed, they would stand as equals.
I've got only two problems with Fallout New Vegas. One is the gameplay, which I can look past. The other is that it is, sadly, unfinished. If only the Legion had been fully fleshed-out, what a marvelous creation would this game be...
 
I love The Wicker Man, it's one of my favorite films, so I see your point.
I'm absolutely certain that as time passes New Vegas will only gain on its importance. Part of it will be because of its own merit and qualities, the other because there simply won't be another (post-apocalyptic) game that will be able to top it. Bethesda certainly won't make one. I have my doubts in inXile, and I'm not sure there's any other studio out there that is remotely interested in making AAA post-apocalyptic RPG.
Unfortunately, unlike The Wicker Man, we won't see any additional work on New Vegas in any way. Perhaps even on Fallout franchise (I mean, legit work).



Indeed, they would stand as equals.
I've got only two problems with Fallout New Vegas. One is the gameplay, which I can look past. The other is that it is, sadly, unfinished. If only the Legion had been fully fleshed-out, what a marvelous creation would this game be...

It's crazy how much they packed into it even when they only had 18 months. I know Bethesda had to build their "great" engine, but they had 4 years for both F3 and F4, and both games feel like empty theme parks with animatronics giving out fetch/loot quests. New Vegas, for me, is probably the best wrpg I've ever played.
 
I think new vegas is Highpoint because I think the genre changed with fallout 4. You could sya the genre and style of the game changed with FO3 and FNV. However I feel like fallout 4 changed it genre comepletely it could rid of any RGP elements and whent with a shoot casual game style. I feel like the older fallouts where RGP in the simplest forum with FO3 and FNV becoming Action RPG. So yeah fallout 4 again changed I feel like the whloe RPG is gone now and that really why its not good. The literally took one of the CORE elements of all the previous game before it and fudged it. What i'd give to have my memory erased so I could play FO3 and FNV again .....
 
A game, to be really the top of the franchise, has to stay true on every aspect of Fallout 1. Not just the role playing, but also the gameplay and with the visuals
So it's either New Vegas or F:Nevada which still not in english (or Resurrection but it's too short on content, and I'll say, details defines the state it takes place in). The perspective doesn't matter at all, it's just at the times this or nothing at all (or Daggerfall/Descent way, which is pure crazy). The core idea of Fallout is always was about post-nuclear ethics first and turn-based combat second (if not tenth), which is exploit ridden garbage anyway.
 
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"its Taken-esque, tried-and-true plot about the quest for a missing child with some of the same rusty old Asimovian questions about artificial intelligence thrown in did nothing to explore the game’s by-now famous opening statement."

What a gloriously concise takedown of Fallout 4. This guy is a man after my own heart.

And this is his only article on the site too. Crazy.
 
So it's either New Vegas or F:Nevada which still not in english (or Resurrection but it's too short on content, and I'll say, details defines the state it takes place in). The perspective doesn't matter at all, it's just at the times this or nothing at all (or Daggerfall/Descent way, which is pure crazy).
Again ... preference ... for me the perspective matters a lot.

The core idea of Fallout is always was about post-nuclear ethics first and turn-based combat second (if not tenth), which is exploit ridden garbage anyway.
Sorry, but that is simply wrong. The original Fallout 1 developers made it absolutely clear, that for them gameplay came BEFORE the setting. We have I think some of the interviews on NMA, where Tim talks about it. ANd he is pretty clear and explains in great detail, why they chose turn based and S.P.E.C.I.A.L - particularly as their first choice was G.U.R.P.S.
They wanted to emulate the P&P experience on the PC as closely as possible. So the turn based gameplay, IS and always WAS a part of the core experience of Fallout. What ever if YOU, see this as the core of Fallout or not, doesn't matter. That is personal preference. But I am talking about what the Fallout 1 developers said and explained. They, above all as the original creators, know best what the core and design behind Fallout should be.
 
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"its Taken-esque, tried-and-true plot about the quest for a missing child with some of the same rusty old Asimovian questions about artificial intelligence thrown in did nothing to explore the game’s by-now famous opening statement."

What a gloriously concise takedown of Fallout 4. This guy is a man after my own heart.

And this is his only article on the site too. Crazy.
Let's be honest though, the vocabulary/concepts in that sentence is beyond the people he's trying to convince. It's beyond Bethesda's writers and marketers too.

I want to see an actual analysis of the reading level of New Vegas' dialogue compared to Fallout 4. I'm pretty sure it would speak for itself.
 
Gameplay is pretty awful, as it always is with the Gamebryo Engine, but I don't play Fallout (or RPGs in general) for the gameplay at all. I essentially only play it for the story, world-building & dialogue - all of which Bethesda seem to think are completely superfluous since (and including) Oblivion.

But yes, I agree. New Vegas is not only my favourite Fallout title but arguably my favourite game of all times, one of them most def. Might have a lot to do with finally getting the closure we never got what with Van Buren's cancellation feeling so amazing!
 
Gameplay is pretty awful, as it always is with the Gamebryo Engine, but I don't play Fallout (or RPGs in general) for the gameplay at all. I essentially only play it for the story, world-building & dialogue - all of which Bethesda seem to think are completely superfluous since (and including) Oblivion.

But yes, I agree. New Vegas is not only my favourite Fallout title but arguably my favourite game of all times, one of them most def. Might have a lot to do with finally getting the closure we never got what with Van Buren's cancellation feeling so amazing!

Shivering Isles in oblivion was pretty good though. But im guessing thats because of Kirkbride.
 
New Vegas is my favorite of the games. It improved on Fallout 3, which I didn't think was possible at the time I played it.

Also, I'm a tabletop gamer so the choice to use GURPS is a baffling one as Steve Jackson's system was needlessly complex in the age of AD&D.
 
The article isn't uninteresting, but badly named. The guy doesn't compare vegas with any other fall0ut titles And even admit he didn't play fo1 and fo2, while any discussion about which one is the best fallout would necessary include those two titles. Also I bet there is a thousand of other things that could be analyzed from vegas and its dlc, and probably had been on nma.

About comparing equivalent characters :
Marcus and Fawkes. The first provide insightful thought about the unity and how tough it is to makes normies, ghouls and muties coexist on a daily basis, while the second decided to read books and become nice. His only characterisation is that he is nice, while with Marcus it isn't even a relevant topic. He would even be embarrassed I if you mention that he is nice for a mutie.

General autumn vs any member of Caesar inner circle. One is an obstacle while the others are characters.
 
The article isn't uninteresting, but badly named. The guy doesn't compare vegas with any other fall0ut titles And even admit he didn't play fo1 and fo2, while any discussion about which one is the best fallout would necessary include those two titles. Also I bet there is a thousand of other things that could be analyzed from vegas and its dlc, and probably had been on nma.

About comparing equivalent characters :
Marcus and Fawkes. The first provide insightful thought about the unity and how tough it is to makes normies, ghouls and muties coexist on a daily basis, while the second decided to read books and become nice. His only characterisation is that he is nice, while with Marcus it isn't even a relevant topic. He would even be embarrassed I if you mention that he is nice for a mutie.

General autumn vs any member of Caesar inner circle. One is an obstacle while the others are characters.

In all honesty, we can take forever comparing New Vegas to the rest of the series.
But we've done it all already.

What I will say is that New Vegas feels like an apology from Obsidian for anyone who thought F2 was too wacky and disjointed from the first.
 
What I will say is that New Vegas feels like an apology from Obsidian for anyone who saw Falluto 1 (Fallout 3) too wacky and disjointed and mediocre and basically Oblivion with a texture pack
Fixed
 
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