I know that it's literally a year since this thread died down. If my act of necroing is unacceptable, then I ask mods to do what they gotta do. But I just noticed that it managed to get this far without me noticing it. I know Doomsdayprepper (may he banned in peace) and
@Bubba Zanetti has agreed to disagreed, but I'm not satisfied with his answer and I know I can answer it better. So, here it goes.
Tell me how House plans to build an economic power base when Vegas doesn’t produce anything substantial on its own.
Like I've mentioned in previous pages, since the Mojave is practically untouched but by very few nuclear warheads, it's literally still a good landscape to produce food as evidenced by even a settlement as small as Goodsprings fully capable of farming their own food. Then there's clean water from Colorado River (and also Goodsprings Source), and the best one yet, electricity from Hoover Dam. At the time, NCR is facing a famine problem back west, which is why even something that's seemingly as trivial as food would be really important for them.
New Vegas, much like the real life version, only thrives because it relies solely on the wealth of a larger entity--NCR in this case.
The real infrastructure found in Vegas and the Mojave is thanks to the NCR transporting it over from the mainland—farming, trade, and industry. They’re the ones that also got Hoover Dam running to current capacity.
Once House kicks NCR military out, along with all the skilled workers, traders, and settlers, what is his plan to utilize these assets?
Who is going to going to keep Hoover Dam operational now that Mike Lawson and his engineers have been shown the door?
Who is going to take over industry in the Mojave?
Is House going to recruit the likes of that mumbling, wheezing vagrant in Freeside to go bang rocks in Quarry Junction?
Ehem,
Order of Withdrawal said:
TO GENERAL OLIVER (or highest-ranking survivor)
TO THE NCR PRESIDENT
TO THE NCR COUNCIL
FROM ROBERT EDWIN HOUSE
As Chief Executive of the Free Economic Zone of New Vegas, I hereby demand the IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL of all NCR military personnel from New Vegas and its surrounding territories.
a) Yes, "all military personnel" includes NCR Rangers.
b) "New Vegas and its surrounding territories" includes (but is not limited to) Hoover Dam, McCarran International Airport, HELIOS One, and the El Dorado substation.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE that my vast army of heavily-armed Securitrons has been rather inflexibly programmed to respond to acts of aggression with overwhelming force.
a) For examples of "heavily-armed" and "overwhelming force," I will refer you to the pitiless campaign of extermination my Securitrons will have visited upon Caesar's Legion by the time you are reading this document.
b) Any NCR military personnel who do not withdraw from New Vegas and its territories will be seen as committing an "act of aggression."
NCR civilians are NOT subject to this order of withdrawal! They may visit New Vegas freely, enjoying all that the Vegas Strip has to offer!
So long as NCR military personnel comply with this order to withdraw, electricity and water will continue to flow from Hoover Dam to the NCR.
a) Electricity: 5 caps per kilowatt hour.
b) Water: 5 caps per gallon
The NCR Council's Office of Budget will receive invoices bi-weekly. Prices are subject to change without notice.
Cordially,
Robert Edwin House
Chief Executive
Free Economic Zone of New Vegas
That doesn't include "the skilled workers, traders, and settlers", ONLY the military personnel, because it also mentioned that the citizens (specifically civilians) of NCR is completely free to visit the Mojave and New Vegas Strip.
What I’m suggesting is there is plenty of in-game evidence hinting that House’s schemes are woefully vague for a reason—it seems he cannot see past the lights of Vegas and his grand plan may well never see fruition.
Maybe he’s too obsessed with Vegas for his own good?
I see evidence to the contrary of what you proclaimed here. His achievement of using older version of an OS to operate Lucky 38, let alone even made it possible to defend Las Vegas and the majority of Mojave area, really, should be enough to know that his schemes is pretty realistic and clear since it's coming from the man like him. However, I'd assume it won't be enough since it's just history now, so I'd list the evidence that would make his schemes pretty clear:
1. His plan to recover the Platinum Chip, all the way from actually digging the ruins where it was buried, to actually have it delivered to him. It got pretty close to him, as close as Goodsprings, no? Sure, it failed to actually deliver because he's got a Wild Card so close to him (Benny), and you would probably not count this achievement.
2. Reforming and rehabilitation of tribal gangs, which might not be that impressive considering a man like Caesar also managed to achieve this. But it's still an achievement regardless considering he was all alone, by himself.... or not, since he have his Securitrons, but it's still for the best, for either House or the tribal gangs, especially since the method wasn't as crude as Caesar's. This accomplishment leads to the restoration of Vegas, or rather the Strip in particular, to a working order, just in time to....
3. Receive the NCR, and instead of getting annexed outright, made a treaty because House was fully aware of the existence of Caesar's Legion readying their horns and hoofs in the east. This ensure that New Vegas remains independent at the time, even though at the sacrifice of 95% of the power (based on New Vegas Treaty) Hoover Dam capable of producing at the time.
All of these are progress, achievements that no man other than House would be capable to achieve. Going by all of this, and his questline, I'm confident enough to believe that House's plans are pretty clear and realistic, IF it's coming from him and him only.
Also, I wouldn't say he's too obsessed with Vegas. Yes, he's obsessed, but not THAT obsessed. Because if he is, why would he even bother if the Kings who's based on Freeside made a pact with the NCR or not? Or, since Freeside is too close to the Strip, why would he bother with imposing heavy taxes on Primm if it happens to let the NCR enforce law in there? Besides, his last in-game dialogue with us was literally him "really should do something about that monorail", which might take him anywhere.
Too had he’s proven to be extremely shitty in this regard.
Two out of three of his families are plotting against him, the other is on the verge of regressing back to the “old ways”, and there are still hints of resentment from the first time he sowed his oats.
'Two'? Last time I checked, only the Omertas plotted against him, and that's also because they have the Legion backing them. The Chairmen are certainly loyal to him, as evidenced by Swank who's not eager when he hears Benny is messing with Mr. House, and you can even sway him away from helping Benny. As for the White Glove Society, they have 2 leaders with conflicting views; Marjorie, who's completely over their cannibalistic past, and Mortimer who's eager to return to cannibalism. The existence of this conflict, means they're still far from the verse of regression. They are on the way, yes, but you can prevent it.
NCR may roll over people, but they bring progress and are not averse to negotiation.
Uhh, progress? Is there any in-game evidence to this? As far as I know, people only praise the security they bring, but progress? Their 'Director of Operations of the Office of Science and Industry (OSI) East' is a hack who can't get shit done.
Also, not to mention they stretch themselves completely thin, and their General Wait-and-See is also a hack who missed the one opportunity they had to finish the Legion once and for all.
Legion may brutally subjugate the populace, but they do a thorough job of assimilating them into their culture.
And then it all fall apart when Caesar die. Sure, Boone mentioned of line of succession arranged to inherit Caesar's reign, but there's no one, and I would say not even a hardcore Legion supporter, can say that anyone can do it like Caesar.
House is far too sloppy for his own good. His wonky machinations aside he also fails to inspire loyalty, except among the most timid and unimaginative of subjects (Swank and the Snack Food Vendor Lady), and cannot maintain a decent measure of control over his subjects.
I wouldn't say House is too sloppy, and more like Benny turned out to be a wild card. All that Benny did was delaying the Chip's arrival (if you make a character that support House, that is), and going by the achievements I've listed above, he's certainly not sloppy.
Besides, he's already maintain a decent measure of control over his subjects, enough to at least keep them from tearing each other apart. Unless, by what you mean 'decent' is more than just 'keep them from tearing each other apart', that would actually be bad for business because, for instance, if he bust through Gomorrah because the Omertas have been illegally hoarding arms, that would actually be bad for business because the other Families and even the NCR would definitely take advantage of such situation. House knows when to play it safe.
Yup and he flattens them if you settle relations between them and NCR. Now I can understand House's stance here completely--that newfound relationship with the Republic makes them potential proxies and thus a liability.
The NCR that's present in Freeside at the time were represented by Elizabeth Kieran, an NCR military personnel (a Major, no less), some missionaries who help with relief effort, AND some squatters. They're called squatters, you know? Just unwanted people taking up spaces in local's home. A pact made with the NCR, and a military personnel on top of that, means the Kings fully support #NCRforNewVegas. That... wouldn't bode well with the head honcho of a major powerhouse in the region who wanted Vegas to stay independent, no?
Don’t complete G.I. Blues, maintain the Kings’ neutrality, and House crushes them all the same because this time they are in the way.
I can look the other way when NCR and Legion pull this kind of shit. NCR does it to ensure the continued survival of their nation, and Legion has the potential to forge a budding civilization out of the dross.
Meh, hypocrisy at its finest. The NCR and the Legion can sweep aside a minor obstacle on the way because they're in the way, but when House did it it's not okay?
I can't get over the notion that all of House's stratagems will never amount to anything more than propping up a post-apocalyptic diorama of Las Vegas.
And do you think the NCR, with their top brass and upper echelons rife with corruptions and people like General Oliver (incompetent hack) and General Moore (a warmonger, as seen by her unfailing support for Kimball and Oliver to push Mojave Campaign, her preference of militant solution to the Great Khans and the Kings, AND that she's completely opposed to Ambassador Crocker's diplomatic approach to the problems in the Mojave, to the point where she would push for his removal should the Courier choose to do the Crocker's way) would get the Mojave anywhere else, that's better than a House-ruled one or Independent?
The Legion? Please. They slaughter everyone, unless Caesar is there, and even then many would stand against them or outright leave the Mojave. Not to mention there's no definite signs of anyone who would be able to succeed Caesar or even surpass him. The chance is higher that the Legion would fall apart when Caesar die.
Like I said, much like Charles Foster Kane, he becomes what he claims to oppose.
Hmm, let's see... this is his claims from what I remember:
Mr. House said:
I have no interest in abusing others, just as I have no interest in legislating or otherwise dictating what people do in their private time.
Nor have I any interest in being worshipped as some kind of machine god messiah. I am impervious to such corrupting ambitions.
Where did he start legislating and dictating what people do in their private time? Benny was completely free to do whatever he wish, to the point of being able to interrupt the Chip's delivery AND returned to the Tops without having anything done to him, and then there's the Omertas who managed to hoard arms in their casino, right under House's nose.
And he's certainly have no interest in being worshipped as some kind of machine god messiah.
The kind of shit that builds nations, that forms their economic foundations are tangible cornerstones like agriculture, commerce, and industry. The kind of stuff Vegas does not posses on its own, not without NCR intervention.
I know I've mentioned it before, but I'll elaborate further. The Mojave landscape is definitely self-sufficient, since it's untouched by most of the nuclear warheads. Not only independent settlements like Goodsprings are fully capable to farm and produce their own food, there are lots of healthy, clean wildlife that's up for hunting and foraging. Complete with all that, the clean water from Colorado river, Lake Mead, and Goodsprings Source, and of course, the electricity provided by the Dam.
Like stated above, only NCR's military presence and personnel that's kicked out of the mojave, but not civilians and workers like merchants, engineers, etc etc. As far as we can see, New Vegas only have entertainment industry, but like House said he would have hi-tech development sectors working once more in 20 years time. With the conflict resolved, I can see him achieving that, especially since he have the Courier to help him do the job.
Yeah, but without NCR intervention it's just another isolated community no different from New Reno... not a springboard for the reawakening of human civilization as House claims.
...
Quite the contrary, he does need them. More than they need him in fact.
Apart from the skill laborers NCR brings with it, the totality of House's supposed "empire" relies wholly on the actual empire of the NCR for its continued existence.
Yes, yes, and yes. Like I said, House didn't outright kicked the NCR and ban them as a whole. He still welcomes the NCR civilians and workers, only ban their military presence. If you managed to execute his plan in the optimal way, he doesn't have to worry about embargo and boycott since he have both Kimball and Oliver to take the blame.
NCR has its share of supporters and detractors who recognize both their good and bad points. For all the trouble they bring, they do provide a higher standard of living and security.
Security, okay. But higher standard of living? How? Nobody ever mentioned something like that. Not in the Mojave. People in the Goodsprings, Primm, and Novac certainly praise the security they provide but highly dislike their push of annexation. Hell, bringing law to Primm in the form of the NCR would actually raise the price of goods you can buy from Johnson Nash, since the NCR imposed heavy taxes on them. And should you let the NCR win the Dam, they would do the same to Goodsprings, to the point of some old-timers would leave because they're unable to handle the cost.
His assimilation of the Three Families is a half-assed job. The Omertas are utterly disloyal and can turn on a dime. They're proven to be wholly dedicated to following the lead of Nero and Big Sal if you complete How Little We Know in their favor. They'll play along if you place Cachino in charge, but how long until another better offer comes along?
IF there's a better offer. Who would be able to bring such a thing to the table?
It's not outside the realm of possibility that slick bastard Benny could have rallied most of the Chairmen to his cause provided he was left to his own devices.
False. Swank and the rest of the Chairmen are actually content and satisfied with the way they're living now. However, they never know about Benny plotting against Mr. House, and when you convince Swank about it, he and everyone else at the Tops would lament the fact that they never saw him as a rat.
House is also completely oblivious to the fact that the White Gloves are reverting back to cannibalism and eating his fucking customers. This is something the Courier figures out on their own if they bother to. If the White Gloves were, again, left to their own devices who knows how far Mortimer would have taken this and if House could have even stopped from leaving them by that point.
Like I mentioned before, the head(s) of the WGS isn't only Mortimer, but also Marjorie. One wants to revert back to cannibalism, the other wants to stay clean. Either one have their own supporters among the members of the society, hence why when you expose Mortimer's scheme, only few members from the feast would resort to attack you, while the rest shown disgust at the possibility of nearly eating human flesh.
I would, however, give you this one about the Three Families. There's not even a damn ending slide for any of them, not even a mention in existing ones! Hell, there's no ending slides for Freeside, too, with the exception the Kings and the Followers. I'd love to know how they fared in the end, since the quests involving any of the Families are some of the most exceptional side quest the world of video games has ever seen.
The point isn't that he isn't rich; the point is that, if he severs ties with the NCR, he won't be rich for long.
Hell, even the defeat of the Legion could spell a significant dent in his income, since his major customer-base is NCR soldiers who are only there because of the war.
Again, I know I've quoted the Order of Withdrawal above, but I really don't understand where this conclusion that House is severing ties completely with New California Republic. Only their military presence are banned, not outright severing ties with the nation as a whole.
I am disappointed in Doomsdayprepper's responses, though.
Many if not all of the Mojave communities existed before House ever emerged, and the rest were established by the NCR. The only thing House created was the Strip (previously occupied by the inhabitants of Freeside), which is why nobody knows who he is or what he wants.
I'd love to know where is this 'rest of communities' established by the NCR existed in the game. Goodsprings, Primm, Nipton, Novac, Freeside and Outer (North, East, and West) Vegas, are the known settlements and communities existed before House's awakening. As far as I know, NCR-established communities only existed in form of military-purposed camps, and Mojave Outpost. Other than that, there's refugees camps and large farm landscapes.
