Examples of Bad Writing in Fallout 4 [Spoilers]

The female voice actor was much better I found for some of the reasons mentioned above. The opening scene with the VT rep went down much the same way for me with the male. You literally cannot be a dick to your wife. She takes it like a champ and lets it roll off her shoulders. The dialog was so weak in those opening scenes. Would it have killed them to let that opening expand a little bit depending on what you picked? It would have been cool to have a lovers spat before you get to the vault because you were a dick to your spouse.
 
The female voice actor was much better I found for some of the reasons mentioned above. The opening scene with the VT rep went down much the same way for me with the male. You literally cannot be a dick to your wife. She takes it like a champ and lets it roll off her shoulders. The dialog was so weak in those opening scenes. Would it have killed them to let that opening expand a little bit depending on what you picked? It would have been cool to have a lovers spat before you get to the vault because you were a dick to your spouse.
Or you know, the choice of actually refusing and getting fucked up in a nuclear apocalypse. At least have the choice Bethesda, pass it off as some kind of choice and consequence bullshit (in all seriousness, it'd be great).
 
I don't think the game was really unsalvagable. All you needed to fix Fallout 4 would be:

* Make you visiting your sister and nephew rather than be someone pre-defined.
* Show all of your responses before you respond.
* Throw some more bad guy options
* Fix the Minutemen Radiant Quest bug
* Ditch the lore failures re: Power Armor and Ghouls and Aliens
* Have four different actual endings to the game
* Have a slide show, maybe at the Memory Den
* Throw a couple of more Hubs than Diamond City instead of shitty settlements

Okay, those are pretty big changes but not so much they couldn't have been done without a complete overhaul.
 
I don't think the game was really unsalvagable. All you needed to fix Fallout 4 would be:

* Make you visiting your sister and nephew rather than be someone pre-defined.
* Show all of your responses before you respond.
* Throw some more bad guy options
* Fix the Minutemen Radiant Quest bug
* Ditch the lore failures re: Power Armor and Ghouls and Aliens
* Have four different actual endings to the game
* Have a slide show, maybe at the Memory Den
* Throw a couple of more Hubs than Diamond City instead of shitty settlements

Okay, those are pretty big changes but not so much they couldn't have been done without a complete overhaul.

1. Something similiar has been done with "Start Me Up" mod. http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/18946/?
2. See Full Dialogue Interface. http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/?
3. It would require rewriting whole quests, I'm not sure if it was done yet. But I'll remain sceptic :/
4. I'm not sure to what are You refering to, nevertheless this should help: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10339/?
5. Personally I'm working on something similiar.
6. Not sure if even doable :/ The endings MIGHT be hardcoded.
7. Just like the above.
8. It would require reshaping the landscape a bit, but very much in the spectrum of being actually made.
 
I don't think the game was really unsalvagable. All you needed to fix Fallout 4 would be:

* Make you visiting your sister and nephew rather than be someone pre-defined.
* Show all of your responses before you respond.
* Throw some more bad guy options
* Fix the Minutemen Radiant Quest bug
* Ditch the lore failures re: Power Armor and Ghouls and Aliens
* Have four different actual endings to the game
* Have a slide show, maybe at the Memory Den
* Throw a couple of more Hubs than Diamond City instead of shitty settlements

Okay, those are pretty big changes but not so much they couldn't have been done without a complete overhaul.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_plot

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotPlot

Needs to be updated to include Fallout 4.

You're a writer. Try to avoid this and see why Fallout 4 fits the definition and the old games don't. I don't care how clever the companions act when they have amnesia like you blowing up The Railroad and Piper saying "I can't believe you did that" while fucking you the next sentence never to mention it again. Compare that to Fallout 2 where Marcus would freak out and gun you down if you fucked up. The whole plot is filled with idiotic writing like not being able to talk out some sort of deal where you run the Institute while working for the Railroad WITHOUT MURDERING EVERYTHING! I mean you are head of the factions in name only. The player has no control. Bethesda is awful at trying to write like Obsidian.
 
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You're a writer. Try to avoid this and see why Fallout 4 fits the definition and the old games don't. I don't care how clever the companions act when they have amnesia like you blowing up The Railroad and Piper saying "I can't believe you did that" while fucking you the next sentence never to mention it again. Compare that to Fallout 2 where Marcus would freak out and gun you down if you fucked up. The whole plot is filled with idiotic writing like not being able to talk out some sort of deal where you run the Institute while working for the Railroad WITHOUT MURDERING EVERYTHING! I mean you are head of the factions in name only. The player has no control. Bethesda is awful at trying to write like Obsidian.

Okay, this is going to be a rather lengthy post:

Fallout 4 is not a bad game. Fallout 4 is a mediocre game that I still enjoyed a great deal. It has bad elements and a lot of unfinished half-assed qualities but the biggest problems, for me, are that it is underwhelming rather than it causes people to bleed out of their eyes from its offensiveness. I'm of the mind the game doesn't actually have a bad plot, necessarily, but that it didn't handle it well.

I think part of the issue is what people wanted from the game and whether or not you wanted a sequel to New Vegas or Fallout 3. Honestly, I think both sides were disappointed in that respect because I was ching for a sequel to Fallout 3 and eager to get into elements pre-established by my second favorite game in the series.

What did I want from Fallout 4?

For me, I was excited about F4 taking place in Massachusetts and the commercials which advertised the Brotherhood of Steel as possible enemies. I was a huge fan of the Replicant plot in F3 and wanted to see the supposedly paradisaical Institute surrounded by the pain and death of the Commonwealth. More so, I wanted a follow up to the legacy of Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyons, two beloved characters from the franchise who I had a strong pre-established affection for. One of the elements I liked a lot about Fallout 2 was the fact it followed up and showed the legacy of your character in the first game. I was definitely interested in seeing how the Brotherhood of Steel and Capital Wasteland had been affected by the Lone Wanderer and was hoping for a lot of Easter Eggs related to that.

What I got

Overall, I actually liked the Sole Survivor's plot because I was willing to follow Bethesda's pre-made route for the most part. I allowed myself to become invested in the fictional family of the Sole Survivor and was angry when the Spouse was killed, eager to murder Kellog (not the least because I actually wanted to travel the Wasteland with my Spouse since i spent an hour on her appearance), and roleplayed a character desperate to find Shaun. I even slaughtered hundreds of Raider bases across the countryside because my character assumed the Gunners were the faction which kidnapped Shaun.

The ending was where the game and I found ourselves diverging, though, because it was clear the game expected me to follow the "Destroy Institute" plan. The problem was there was absolutely no interesting story to be had there. In Skyrim, hate it as much as you want, siding with one faction or the other will screw over likable NPCs. There's no real moral ambiguity in going against the Institute save the heavy handed death of Patriot with the Railroad--which is still more than anyone else gets.

For me, ultimately, I didn't feel the story had enough drama and when that happens in a Bethesda game then you have to create your own. I chose to side with the Institute and turned against the Railroad as well as Brotherhood of Steel despite the fact both had been good to me and I'd been planning a slave revolt. My Sole Survivor couldn't justify destroying the Institute, one of the few cities left in the world as well as centers of technology, even though he was convinced his son was insane.

The resulting end to my story was bittersweet and I liked all the condemnation I got from my companions even though Piper and Nick Valentine reversed on it (mostly because I did Nick's quest afterward). It was a decently written story of Gray and Gray Morality which I enjoyed. It showed me the game wasn't unsalvable writing wise. Later, I would watch the other victories and was grossly disappointed as everyone treats the nuking of a civilization as a triumph for "good."

Still, the result of my playthrough of Fallout 4 was mostly positive because by focusing on the family element to the exclusion of others, I got a story I was able to enjoy. That tells me there was potential in Fallout 4. Potential that I was able to realize even if it could have been better. Certainly, by having friends in all four factions, destroying the Brotherhood of Steel had a lot more drama than it ever would have had with a stereotypical "Good guy" choice.

I talk about the best way to play Fallout 4 here in "The Moral Ambiguity of Fallout 4"

For me, what I wanted from the Brotherhood of Steel was a big thick strawberry milkshake of fanservice and what I got was a steak and fries. There was almost no fanservice from the Lone Wanderer who wasn't even mentioned at all in the game, something that bitterly disappointed me. However, I really was invested in the Arthur Maxson story. Why? Because I was invested in the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel. I don't give a shit about the West Coast Brotherhood as, as far as I'm concerned, they're a group which should go extinct but I love the East Coast Brotherhood because that was built with your efforts as a PC.

For those who actually care about the EBoS over the WBoS, it was amazing seeing them turned into a conquering feudalist society and a force for brutality as well as racism. I felt the pain of watching Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyon's "dream" corrupted and turned to evil, even though I predicted that was what they were going to do YEARS before Fallout 4.

See my essay: "The Moral Ambiguity of Fallout 3" which is really just about how the Brotherhood of Steel in that game is hopeless flawed. It was also written in 2012, BTW. I predicted when we next saw the EBoS, they would be brutal racist conquerors out to enslave the Wasteland because the seeds were laid in F3 if you bothered to look for them.

Still, the BoS was full of likable decent people and ones you enjoyed. They were what I wanted from the ENCLAVE of all people, the chance to see the fascists from their own heroic perspective. It was painful to side against them and blow their zeppelin out of the sky--not the least because you saw Squires and children drawing crayons on the ground.

That was good writing. To show the true horrific cost of war. To see the children of the Institute and know you're going to kill them or make them homeless if you don't. Either way you sided with the Institute or Brotherhood of Steel, innocents were going to suffer. That's why it was the most compelling plot of the game for me.

But you needed to engage with the characters first.

The fact I gave a shit about all of this shows me Fallout 4's story wasn't unsalvagable. It just really needed more work.
 
My only problem with FO4 is that [like FO3] it's a member of the Fallout series by fiat rather than merit. Another cuckoo in the nest, ensuring [yet again] that no future Fallout titles emerge in the series ~only impostoring frankenshooters that bear the name, and nothing else of the reputation that name implies. It's become Bethesda's calling card; even for their own Elder Scrolls series.

It does not matter how good (or bad) a game is ~if it's not the right game from the outset.
*This means that an inferior [Fallout] sequel would win hands down by merely being an appropriate one.

(Would anyone here accept a Halo 6 that played like Super Mario? And yet some would have us accept a Fallout sequel that plays like an Oblivion 2 with a retro-scifi reskin.)

** I would buy FO4 [wretched story and all] if there was a total conversion mod that reformed the errant gameplay back into the fold and made it akin to Fallout 1 & 2 [or even FO:Tactics]. To have a real Fallout game using the otherwise decent enough FO4 engine; with the conversation UI gutted and replaced... doesn't seem half bad IMO. Better if the story was gutted also, and the mod simply re-purposed the official assets alongside new ones, in a new [unrelated] campaign.
 
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I think it was easy to fix fallout 4 all you would have need was some better writing
 
I think it was easy to fix fallout 4 all you would have need was some better writing
Is that possible with the current [limited] conversation system? So far the only redeeming aspect of the game that I have seen, is the corrected power armor appearance. Cosmetics only; not their game mechanics. The PA's [especially the Enclave suit] appear like they should have in FO3.
 
@CT Phipps I played much the same way you did if only to enjoy the game as much as possible, however little that may be. I roleplayed much the same way you did, siding with the BoS the first time through while carving a path to find my son. I also enjoyed seeing the progression from Lyon's BoS to Maxon's. I came out of it actually liking that the most out of all things. The story DID have potential as most Bethesda games have shown, but it seriously failed to improve upon the faction mechanics of New Vegas, gimping the story instead with half ass quest solutions.

Any sense of character progression or immersion or roleplaying fucking ceases to exist when you have one sentence responses to the biggest questions in the game. Shaun ceases to be a factor when the story forces you into Minutemen quests and your son is a dick who never really tells you much instead just being a vague and sinister for reasons. It leads me to believe they had no idea why they wanted Synths in the game.

Something, something, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, something, *Emil falls asleep with Cheetos scattered about*

The companions ranged from good to horrible with Macready's stupid trolling ass being one of the worst. You know that shitty town of invincible kids from Fallout 3? Here you go bitch. Piper had shitty motives with her sister being a non factor for most of the game. Valentine saved my sanity while playing the abomination thankfully. Danse turned out pretty cool with the synth twist. There just wasn't much to attach to really. The settlements left a giant hole in the game where no plot could fill.

Go work on your next book. Don't waste time with these fucks. I mean Bethesda not you guys. :)
 
Is that possible with the current [limited] conversation system? So far the only redeeming aspect of the game that I have seen, is the corrected power armor appearance. Cosmetics only; not their game mechanics. The PA's [especially the Enclave suit] appear like they should have in FO3.

It's not like the spoken options are all that different from the written ones. Plenty of conversations in Fallout 2 were limited to four ones.

It's just they should have shown what sort of things you could say as options.
 
I was under the [mistaken?] impression that there was a rather terse limit to the (character) length of the PC's statements.
 
Not just classic Fallout and New Vegas offer more logical and sensible choices for player to make, and dialogue options did not limited to must be 4.
Something the writer only need 2 or 3 to make the story going, but the new dialogue system of Fallout 4 force the choices always been 4, the writing standard in later Bethesda games are already show to be quantity over quality, those "extra" choices full of nonsense just make the whole game feel worse.
 
One of my problems was the sheer about of places with just bland copy paste raider and super mutant camps.

No new cultures and interesting groups emerging from the wastes or how they interact with one another and structures from within.


Or wait no, I take that back. The Commonwealth did develop cultures, it's just when the SS isn't interacting with anyone. Raiders have stories right on their terminals and holotapes. They made a race track ffs. Gunners have a chain of command.


Everything, everything, ceases to exist the very second you get spotted and turns into shooter.
 
@CT Phipps I played much the same way you did if only to enjoy the game as much as possible, however little that may be. I roleplayed much the same way you did, siding with the BoS the first time through while carving a path to find my son. I also enjoyed seeing the progression from Lyon's BoS to Maxon's. I came out of it actually liking that the most out of all things. The story DID have potential as most Bethesda games have shown, but it seriously failed to improve upon the faction mechanics of New Vegas, gimping the story instead with half ass quest solutions.

The big issue which felt for me with Fallout 4 is it really did feel like my house when I first bought it. The people who sold it had done a great job of papering over all of the flaws in the house and serious issues which needed fixing. Fallout 4 is a game, for me, which isn't flawed at the conceptual level (disagree with some of the design choices as I may) but the fact it clearly didn't have nearly enough time or inclination to fill in the gaps and create proper responses for much of the game. Hence so much repeated dialogue and short responses.

There's obviously a lot of stuff which was cut off and could have made the game better.

* The Nick Valentine gets possessed by Kellog plot
* Piper's sister's quest
* Danse becomes Elder of the Brotherhood
* The Milk of Human Kindness

And so on. The game needed at least six months more development to patch up all of those holes and lots more recording time in the booth. Recording time better spent on something other than Codsworth talking to you by name.

I would have a lot better feeling regarding the game if I could confront Shaun, you know, the guy who is the most important character in the game about shit like the Super Mutants. Which wouldn't take much.

The companions ranged from good to horrible with Macready's stupid trolling ass being one of the worst. You know that shitty town of invincible kids from Fallout 3? Here you go bitch. Piper had shitty motives with her sister being a non factor for most of the game. Valentine saved my sanity while playing the abomination thankfully. Danse turned out pretty cool with the synth twist. There just wasn't much to attach to really. The settlements left a giant hole in the game where no plot could fill.

Macready was actually fun.

"I was from a community of children living alone in the Wasteland."
"That's stupid."
"SHUT UP!"

Go work on your next book. Don't waste time with these fucks. I mean Bethesda not you guys. :)

I love Piper, Cait, and my Red Rocket Station love nest. I just wish the game had something more than this.

:)
 
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