Feargus Urquhart interview on Gamasutra

[Brother None]

its not about everyone but about those with extreme prejudice against them that i care about their "background" just as in the case with 'games is not an art' (they guy never played games)

You seem to be talking mostly about alec, still.

besides may be its just me but 'not all of them' is not generalizing or is in par with the comment i replayed to which basically did the same thing you claim i did, but hey i got my opinion you as community admin and if i remember the usual forum rules i'll better pledge the fifth.

What? Seriously, I don't understand what you're saying.

Concerning older people who can't play FP games, my mom has played through Morrowind several times, and she's over 60.

Well the whole thing isn't really related to age. Our generation has had more time to get used to the concept, sure. But some people can not play some games without getting motion sickness. I get it sometimes too but it has nothing to do with the viewpoint, but rather with the predictability of the camera. Worst one was Beyond Good & Evil.

 

[alec]

I am not a guy who was caught up in the notion that Fallout had to be an isometric, turn-based experience.

Fallout is a trimetric game. Someone should actually ask the devs about that once, seeing as how it's not a very popular projection method in general and definitely not in games. Diablo is isometric.

Otherwise decent read.

Also: stop talking behind my back. You know who you are.

 

[PaladinHeart]

Ah, the motion sickness. Yeah I've gotten that with a few games. I almost always get a headache from playing a new game too much right away (Starcraft 2 being the most recent). I find that it helps if I slowly acclimate myself to it, playing about an hour a day at first.

I also get kinda sick if I'm watching someone else play a FP or behind the shoulder style game if they move unpredictably. Hopefully, as time goes on and game makers' techniques improve, they'll have characters and the camera move more predictably (rather, realistically), so that the motion sickness won't happen as much.

I played Beyond Good & Evil on the X-Box and never had any sickness from it (that I can recall). I thought the game was pretty good (for a bargain bin title, to play through once). It's mostly first person games that tend to make me sick. It's funny, every time my nephew sees me playing a behind-the-shoulder style game, he always says, "That game would have been better if they had made it first person." Ack! The statement makes me feel ill. I just ignore it though and don't say the obvious, "There's already a TON of FPS games." It's just his opinion. I do get some satisfaction knowing that someone else will, some 15 or so years down the road, say something similar to him, but he'll be playing a FPS style game and they'll say, "That game would be better in 5th dimension style! With true 5D!" (I would say "in virtual reality" but I don't think technology is capable of that anytime soon)

Also.. sorry for epic wall of text.

Edit: I also get a headache from reading too much on the internet... speaking of which....

 

[Morbus]

The majority today simply likes games to be more entertaining and relaxing than extremely hard.

That's like saying the majority today simply likes games where you don't have to think or do much at all to "win" the game because otherwise it's hard and you have to think and play carefully.

I play all my games with maxed out difficulty, and I never find it boring or frustrating. Granted I don't play boring or frustrating games much. But the thing is, what's boring is clicking a button for hours and seeing enemies die without you giving a damn about what your doing. That's what Fallout 3 is.

Your witty remarks about your lack of personality don't really matter.

 

[mor]

Mor: you're still generalizing over an entire population, making assumptions you shouldn't and then insulting them. That's all there is to it, so stop it.

so calling of FO3 a crap and everyone who dont agree is just on drugs, an idiot,10 year old consul kiddo or take your pick from countless threads on the matter ...
and taking into consideration that there is here, more than one guys who likes the originals and like FO3, then its not insulting them

because if this falls under the opinion clause, then i see no problem with stating that in my opinion many pp-l with extreme prejudice vs FPS are in fact, pp-l who unable or never did experienced them.

 

[alec]

and we know that not everyone can play FPS games

The only one on these forums I've ever seen mention he can play FPSs is alec.

That only started when they got more realistic and when the camera movement started to follow your character's movement more accurately, like when you run and the whole goddamn screen goes up and down. Shit. Who comes up with that? Just dig a grave for me already, shall we? It's funny though: I got sick to the stomach playing Half-Life and the crazy part was that I really liked the game. It only became worse afterwards, it's like car sickness, so I stopped playing or buying them. I do - and I know this is pretty daft, but it's sorta soothing - watch people play through games on YouTube. So I basically went through Fallout 3 as well, or rather had some anonymous player do it for me.

 

[Shoveler]

I won't speak for a group or anyone other than myself, I'll just relate my thoughts:

My first experience with Fallout 1 was in 1997, maybe about a month after it was released. I was 20 and my brother had purchased it for his computer repair/upgrade/sales shop as kind of an attention grabber. FPS's were running wild already at that point. Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake etc. had been out for several years. If any thing Fallout's isometric view was almost a breath of fresh air at that time. FPS was nothing new, or innovative by then.

It was a slow day at his shop so I plopped down in front of the computer and started messing around. Created my character, got the quest to repair the vault's water chip and so on. Was thinking, not bad so far. It was isometric (which I didn't know I liked at the time, but came to love) and the stat system was in a round about way like D&D (which I was very familiar with). Familiarity almost right off, very much piqued my interest at this point. Then I finally met up with the Kahn's, being my first play through I was just planning to shoot my way in.

I will never in all my gaming days forget the next moment, I full auto my SMG into the raider standing right next to me and his whole torso goes flying off leaving only a pair of blood gushing legging briefly standing next to me until they thudded lifelessly down.

At that moment I was entirely sold. The 50's/Post Apocalyptic theme, the stats, the skills/the perks. Drug & alcohol use, whoring, no game by this point had rolled it all up into one. Not to mention a story line that was pretty damn good for it's time.

Then came Fallout 2. I dunno, I really enjoyed Fallout 2, despite all the perhaps out of place humor (hey I chuckled quite a few times, win). The game was huge, it was over the top, but I loved it. Cranked up the drug/alcohol/whoring aspects and man was I home.

Tactics, I really liked for what it was....different.

FO: BOS.....eh....I played it......eh

Van Buren, when I heard Fallout 3 was in the works I nearly crapped my self, so much time had passed even by 2003, 5 years since Fallout 2 was released. An enternity in game time. When Van Buren was canceled/Black Isle gutted, so was I. Truly. I'm a fan of games, but some have an attachment that I can't justify with my words.

Fallout 3 reincarnated? Or so I thought ever so briefly, when I found out Bethesda was making, any hopes I had of my precious Fallouts being reborn were quickly dashed. I scorned it, even hated it, I KNEW my Fallouts were now dead. My brother knowing my love for Fallouts of old purchased me a Collectors Edition of Fallout 3, Survival Edition even. It sat on my shelf for more than a year.

My life had changed greatly, now married with children. Time for gaming dramatically reduced by career and family. One lazy Sunday popped in the Fallout 3 DVD and installed it, then got the add-ons too. After playing for a while I realized something important, I liked this game. So many parts of it Bethesda nailed spot on. The beginning Vault for example to me was just awesome, the perks/skills while different were also new and exciting. I didn't know it before installing the game, but I was ready for a change.

Fallout 3 does more right then wrong, but this is just my humble opinion, over the last 13 years I've experienced all that Fallout in all of its incarnations has had to offer. And still I liked Fallout 3.

Just my lowly thoughts on the subject matter.

Shov

(slips into fanboi preservation shelter)

 

[alec]

An isometric Fallout simply would not sell good, it is simply a fact.

Diablo 3. It won't be true isometric, but the difference is minimal, top down view is still there. Damn... now why would they do that?

 

[Sander]

so calling of FO3 a crap and everyone who dont agree is just on drugs, an idiot,10 year old consul kiddo or take your pick from countless threads on the matter ...
and taking into consideration that there is here, more than one guys who likes the originals and like FO3, then its not insulting them

because if this falls under the opinion clause, then i see no problem with stating that in my opinion many pp-l with extreme prejudice vs FPS are in fact, pp-l who unable or never did experienced them.

It's not just that that's your opinion, it's that you're generalising over the entire population. Like the idea that people here can't play FPS games, which is ridiculous since there are plenty here who do.

And yes, calling everyone who likes Fallout 3 an idiot is insulting, too.

 

[SharkClub]

An isometric Fallout simply would not sell good, it is simply a fact.

Please excuse the use of an image macro, but jesus christ when will this shit stop.

 

[Kerr-Plomb]

An isometric Fallout simply would not sell good, it is simply a fact.

Oh cool. Since it's a fact no doubt you'll be able to point to empirical evidence.

*fixed *

The evidence: "It's not how the gaming industry works."
->Industry is capitalistic thus following supply and demand, if there'd be a demand, (and there ARE such games out there, or were, BUT they sold less and less, the days of the last decades are today "only" arcade titles), then someone would bring out those games.
Edit: It is like with the old lucasarts etc adventure fans. They all mourn about them not existing, but on the arcade market are so many good and new ones of different kinds, but they simply don't get bought, so why should someone fund full price game if even the arcade, lower price games don't get sold good.

What I liked, as said, was the atmosphere. And for me there's no better gameview than first person to really drag me into this atmosphere giving me the feeling of really being part of it, it's the same with novels, those who want you to bind yourself to a character show you the character as close as possible and not from a top down view.

You could even consider that Fallout 1, made by the same team as back then, would have been first person from the start of the technical possibilities were given, back then they weren't.

@Morbus: I play games the hardest level when it still makes fun, I plan to play Fallout NV on the hardest level with hardcore, because for me it adds to the atmosphere, so I'm not part of the majority I talked about, but I know it pretty well. gaming is not a geek thing anymore you have to understand. Back when the first rpgs came out they were made and played by those DnD people, the geeks. Today, especially due to consoles many casual gamers simply entered the market. With NV they go both ways so there's no problem there.

@Reconite: If you don't like discussions or personal opinions, you can go to any of those many countries were dictatorship says what is right and what is wrong. And if I say fact, it's still opinion, just wanted to say with it that I'm pretty pretty sure on this one, of course it can be totally different as well.

 

[mor]

so calling of FO3 a crap and everyone who dont agree is just on drugs, an idiot,10 year old consul kiddo or take your pick from countless threads on the matter ...
and taking into consideration that there is here, more than one guys who likes the originals and like FO3, then its not insulting them

because if this falls under the opinion clause, then i see no problem with stating that in my opinion many pp-l with extreme prejudice vs FPS are in fact, pp-l who unable or never did experienced them.

It's not just that that's your opinion, it's that you're generalising over the entire population. Like the idea that people here can't play FPS games, which is ridiculous since there are plenty here who do.

And yes, calling everyone who likes Fallout 3 an idiot is insulting, too.

i would assume that those who play FPS do not have extreme prejudice against FPS just as i never said all of them (on the contrary) any specific reason why you feel that i have been generalizing?


EDIT: @Kradath it seem that you got some quote fail as i dont recall commenting on that.

 

[shihonage]

Perspective has nothing to do with Fallout 3's faults. If you can make a Fallout game work in an FPS format, I'd be the first to go for it.

Fallout 3's #1 problem was absolutely horrific writing they used in the game. It was abysmal. Brain-numbing. Provoking mild suicidal tendencies. The "Let's play F3" thread on RPGCodex is the most undeniable, damning evidence of this.

NPCs acting like you're their best friend for no reason, and then letting you detonate a nuclear bomb.
A person that survives an epicenter of a nuclear explosion and becomes a ghoul.
A radiation-proof mutant who, in the end, is perfectly suited for the final mission, but simply refuses to go because "this path is yours and yours alone".
The inane arguments with the game's main boss that can somehow convince him to relent (for no reason whatsoever).
The never-ending "sewage pipe repair" type quests.
The virtual reality chamber where an apparently pedophilic professor plays as a little girl and makes you do more retarded quests.
The Tree Cult.
Vampires.
Simply how everyone talks (the Player, and all NPCs in the game speak like high-functioning autistics who are trying to grasp conversational English)

and so on and so forth.

#2 problem is the graphics. It's almost as if Bethesda's programmer team IS their art team and writing team as well. Bland all around.

#3 problem is that player stats do not translate into intricate degrees of the world's reaction to you. It seems to be more about maxing. What's the point in making a character creation screen at all, then?

#4 is VATS. It gave me the same jarring "yanked out of the game' feeling as those retarded hacking minigames in Bioshock. This is the game. And this is VATS. And this is the game. And this is VATS again. Hello.

 

[Sander]

i would assume that those who play FPS do not have extreme prejudice against FPS just as i never said all of them (on the contrary) any specific reason why you feel that i have been generalizing?

"lets just say that the average user age here is higher than the usual and that not all of them can handle FP, thus the prejudice against it. "

In other words: people who are older can't handle FP and thus have a prejudice against it.
For one, that entire assumption that older people can't handle FPS games as well is nonsense (it's also a generalisation). Second, the assumption that the average user age here is higher than 'the usual'(what's 'the usual?') is unfounded. Third, the idea that there's a bias against FPS games here is unfounded. The fact that some people don't want to see Fallout in a first person perspective doesn't mean they don't like FPS games.

 

[Shoveler]

i would assume that those who play FPS do not have extreme prejudice against FPS just as i never said all of them (on the contrary) any specific reason why you feel that i have been generalizing?

"lets just say that the average user age here is higher than the usual and that not all of them can handle FP, thus the prejudice against it. "

In other words: people who are older can't handle FP and thus have a prejudice against it.
For one, that entire assumption that older people can't handle FPS games as well is nonsense (it's also a generalisation). Second, the assumption that the average user age here is higher than 'the usual'(what's 'the usual?') is unfounded. Third, the idea that there's a bias against FPS games here is unfounded. The fact that some people don't want to see Fallout in a first person perspective doesn't mean they don't like FPS games.

How does Mor explain the fact that FPS have been around just as long as isometric? Longer in fact now that I think about it. So much for his theory.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

The evidence: "It's not how the gaming industry works."
->Industry is capitalistic thus following supply and demand, if there'd be a demand, (and there ARE such games out there, or were, BUT they sold less and less, the days of the last decades are today "only" arcade titles), then someone would bring out those games.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/98583-e3-2010-feargus-urquhart.html?start=3

"GB: See, as a PC gamer myself, a zoomed-out viewpoint is my first choice. The Infinity Engine had about the perfect perspective for me.

Feargus: Infinity Engine games, I love them. I didn’t play as many hours as Ray did, but I put like 150 hours into Baldur’s Gate II. I loved it. The games were awesome, and it's strange because it’s not like the sales on them went like this [makes a downward slope with his hand]. We just stopped making them. It wasn’t like, "Oh, no one’s buying them anymore, let’s stop making them." It wasn’t that consumers weren’t interested, it was the publishers that weren’t interested. "

 

[Brother None]

The evidence: "It's not how the gaming industry works."

No one does it hence no one should do it. Awesome, your circular reasoning surely qualifies as empirical evidence.

I wish some day someone can do better than this.

You could even consider that Fallout 1, made by the same team as back then, would have been first person from the start of the technical possibilities were given, back then they weren't.

Oh definitely...This was way before any first-person games, right? I'm sure it was

 

[Shoveler]

Kraddath, just FYI, the first FPS dates way back to 1973.

The first Isometric is from around 1983! eek...isometric is the newer style/look/preference. Fancy that, I like my FPSs just fine, but to say they are better somehow.....just stinks of ..... falsehood.

 

[mor]

The evidence: "It's not how the gaming industry works."

No one does it hence no one should do it. Awesome, your circular reasoning surely qualifies as empirical evidence.

I wish some day someone can do better than this.

considering the free market principle, that if there is a demand there should be a supply, unless ...


EDIT:

How does Mor explain the fact that FPS have been around just as long as isometric? Longer in fact now that I think about it. So much for his theory.

you confuse me with Kraddath, but if we on topic:

You could even consider that Fallout 1, made by the same team as back then, would have been first person from the start of the technical possibilities were given, back then they weren't.

Oh definitely...This was way before any first-person games, right? I'm sure it was

because then top down view was way better, you could get more for less, i am a big believer that F/TP will be future of the genre but only recently with titles likes MAFIA2 red dead redemption i think they finally got all the tools they need for the job.

 

[Brother None]

considering the free market principle, that if there is a demand there should be a supply, unless ...

... the market is misinterpreted. Which never happens, right?

Not to mention when the market's structure is simply ill-fitting, as is the case with the console market.